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Old 01-24-2023, 12:33 PM   #1
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Transferred Betta to New Tank; Still Not Doing Well

So I recently tranferred my fish, Zeke, into a larger tank because I thought he might be feeling bored with his old surroundings in a smaller 3.5 gallon tank. Before then, he was spending a lot of time laying on the bottom of the tank, and not visibly eating food (tbough I had seen him flit up to get some a couple times). I suppose I should start with the mistakes I know I've made.

>I think I've been overfeeding him. I've been putting in some extra food in the worries that he might not be able to find the pinches I've been giving him. I think that's contributed to the algae problem in the last tank.

>I believe that even with the wave break on the filter in his new tank, the flow might have still been too strong. I just replaced it with an adjustable flow filter last night to see if there were any improvements, and it doesn't look like it.

>I rinsed the decorations in the new tank, but I neglected to rinse the substrate.

>I definitely took too long to ask about this. His condition hasn't deteriorated any further, and I see him upright on the bottom of the tank now and then, but this could have been something much more dangerous and I dragged my feet on it.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily an issue with the new tank though. His condition hasn't really seemed to deteriorate any further. It just hasn't improved.

I looked up potential diseases he may have, but I couldn't find anything that exactly relates to what I see in him. His scales aren't protuding, I don't see any visible bloating...I am pretty sure he was tailbiting before (which is why I aimed to improve his living conditions) - and I bought some BettaFix, which is supposed to help with fin and skin health. But I'm thinking about whether I should go out and buy some BettaZing, which I understand is meant to treat bacterial infections?

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Old 01-24-2023, 01:34 PM   #2
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How are you getting on with cycling the tank? What are your water parameters at?
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Old 01-24-2023, 01:41 PM   #3
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It's only been a week since the change, I believe. I'm changing the water today. I haven't noticed any significant presence of nitrites or chlorine yet, but I guess that's to be expected. It is a ten-gallon tank with one Betta in it.

I forgot to mention this, I did purchase an Eco Biostone. I checked the reviews to see if it would be good for my tank, since I was a little concerned about introducing new bacteria into the tank, but from all the reviews I read, it'll only be beneficial for your fish and the tank's ecosystem

The pH is still kind of high, but no higher than the last tank. I'll be using another gallon or two of diluted water during the tank change to see if I can lower it some more to a more Betta-preferrable pH.
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Old 01-24-2023, 01:46 PM   #4
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Its ammonia you should be concerned about. I would expect to be seeing toxic levels of ammonia if you havent done a water change in a week and the tank isnt cycled. Do you know your ammonia?
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Old 01-24-2023, 01:54 PM   #5
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I'm not sure if I do. I have strips that test pH, Nitrate, Nitrite, Carbonate Root, Hardness, Chlorine, Alkalinity, Iron, and Copper. But not explicitly ammonia, from the looks of it.

Should I go out and get some that do?
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Old 01-24-2023, 02:12 PM   #6
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As explained in your other thread, your target for water parameters while cycling should be ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm. Ammonia shows up first.

There is 2 ways to do this. You can either guestimate your water change frequency or test the parameters and be more sure. But a weekly water change isnt going to cut it.

If you just want to guestimate things, i would change 1/3 of the water daily for the next week, then 1/3 every other day for a week, then 1/3 every 3 days for a week, then 1/3 every 4 eays, etc until you are doing 1/3 every week then stick at that. That will probably be sufficient to make sure your water stays safe while it cycles.

We have no real way of knowing if water quality is the issue here though as you cant provide the most important water parameter that would be off. Personally i would get a test kit that measures ammonia, preferably a liquid test kit as strips are not reliable. At the very least we can rule it out if the test comes back good.

Take a cupful of water to test later, then change 50% of the water. See if your fishes activity improves.

I would also add i read up on that eco-biostone. All it appears to be is some kind of volcanic rock or pumice stone. It would be a good media for bacteria to grow on, but i cant see how it can already contain bacteria. You can get pre-cycled filter media but not at the price of that product. If it genuinely is what it says, its a hobby changing product.
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Old 01-24-2023, 02:23 PM   #7
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Alright. You mentioned the water change kit last time too. I haven't picked it up yet, but I have today off so I'm going to physically go out and buy it instead of waiting for it to be shipped. Then I can know for certain what I'm dealing with. I'll see if I can get some BettaZing while I'm there. I don't know if Zeke has any kind of infection, but I may as well make sure I have it to try if I don't see improvements.

I guess I'll also go out and buy a lot of distilled water, since it sounds like I'll need it.

I'll start changing the water daily and keep you posted.
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Old 01-24-2023, 02:28 PM   #8
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Whats bettazing? I cant find anything of that name online.
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Old 01-24-2023, 03:26 PM   #9
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...you know, now that you mention it? I can't find it either. I swore there was a medicine independent of BettaFix that was specifically for curing bacterial infections, but now I can't find it. Maybe I just dreamed it? I honestly don't know...
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Old 01-24-2023, 03:56 PM   #10
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You probably mean bettafix. Its a dilute version of melafix that is essentially tea tree oil. Tea tree oil has some medicinal properties, but is really just a herbal remedy. It might help prevent infections, but wont really do anything to heal sick fish.

In fact it leaves an oily residue on the water surface. Bettas are labyrinthine fish and can breathe air from the surface. The oily residue can adversly effect the Labyrinth organ when they go for a gulp of air. This is known to API which is why they make a dilute version of melafix specially for bettas, as if less oil is better. Dont waste money on bettafix, melafix or pimafix. Any of the fixes.
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Old 01-24-2023, 04:37 PM   #11
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It's a little late for that, but I'm glad I waited on using any of it. Thanks for letting me know beforehand.
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Old 01-24-2023, 06:20 PM   #12
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...I don't know if Zeke has any kind of infection, but I may as well make sure I have it to try if I don't see improvements.
Some common signs of disease in fish include:
Cream, white or grey film or patches over part or all of the body. If it's over all of the body, it's normally caused by something in the water irritating the fish. If it's patchy or only over one area, it's usually an external protozoan infection. Bettas don't normally get external protozoan infections because they are usually kept on their own. This limits the exposure they have to other fish and diseases.

Red lines or patches over the body or fins. This is usually bacterial and is normally from physical injuries like fighting. It can also be introduced with new fish but because Bettas are normally kept on their own, it's not very common.

If the fish bloats up (gets fat) overnight, this is normally an internal problem. If they get fat and do a stringy white poop, it's usually an internal infection and most fish die within a few days of showing these symptoms.

A bloated fish will sometimes have the scales sticking out from the belly region. This is dropsy and is an internal problem (infection or organ failure). This can also be associated with stringy white poop but not always.

If a fish is breathing heavily, it can have gill flukes or more likely, there is something in the water irritating the fish. It can be ammonia, chlorine, medication, plant fertiliser, etc.

The most common killer of fish in aquariums is poor water quality followed by diseases that are introduced by other fish. If the fish has been kept on its own for several months or more, then it's unlikely to have a disease.

Poor water quality will cause fish to lay on the bottom of the tank, sometimes on their sides or in severe cases, upside down. They might breath heavily, not swim about much, and basically look like they are dying, and they usually are due to poisoning.

Basic first aid for fish includes doing big daily water changes to ensure the water they are kept in is clean and safe for them. This can fix a lot of fish health issues especially if they are related to poor water quality.

If you want to post a picture of the fish, we can check it for signs of external diseases, but if you haven't added new fish or plants to the tank, it's unlikely to be a disease.

Unfortunately the paper test strips for checking water quality don't have ammonia on them and that is one of the most important water tests for an aquarium, due to ammonia being more toxic than nitrite or nitrate. A lot of people with the paper test strips buy a separate ammonia test kit to check their water. Alternatively take a glass of tank water to a pet shop and ask them to test it for you. Write the results down in numbers at the time.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:27 AM   #13
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Thanks, Colin. I think that with the help of you and Aiken Drum, it's probably a safe assumption that, because I dramatically underestimated regular tank changes and failed to notice I had no means to test for ammonia, this is most likely the result of poor tank quality - since he appears to not be showing any other signs of illness listed here.

As such, I'll be following Aiken Drum's advice and start doing daily water changes for the next week, then bi-daily the next week and so on.

I've cleaned out my old tank and repurposed it to pre-treat and pre-heat the new water with my other tank heater overnight so that it'll be very close to the conditions in the current tank. That should hopefully make it easier on him as I hopefully detox the water.

I have unfortunately ran out of money, so it looks like I won't be able to go out and buy anything to test for ammonia for at least a couple days from now, but like I said, with everything brought up here it seems like a safe assumption.

I'll let you know if I see any positive improvements in Zeke, going forward.
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLewis View Post
So I recently tranferred my fish, Zeke, into a larger tank because I thought he might be feeling bored with his old surroundings in a smaller 3.5 gallon tank. Before then, he was spending a lot of time laying on the bottom of the tank, and not visibly eating food (tbough I had seen him flit up to get some a couple times). I suppose I should start with the mistakes I know I've made.



>I think I've been overfeeding him. I've been putting in some extra food in the worries that he might not be able to find the pinches I've been giving him. I think that's contributed to the algae problem in the last tank.



>I believe that even with the wave break on the filter in his new tank, the flow might have still been too strong. I just replaced it with an adjustable flow filter last night to see if there were any improvements, and it doesn't look like it.



>I rinsed the decorations in the new tank, but I neglected to rinse the substrate.



>I definitely took too long to ask about this. His condition hasn't deteriorated any further, and I see him upright on the bottom of the tank now and then, but this could have been something much more dangerous and I dragged my feet on it.



I'm not sure if it's necessarily an issue with the new tank though. His condition hasn't really seemed to deteriorate any further. It just hasn't improved.



I looked up potential diseases he may have, but I couldn't find anything that exactly relates to what I see in him. His scales aren't protuding, I don't see any visible bloating...I am pretty sure he was tailbiting before (which is why I aimed to improve his living conditions) - and I bought some BettaFix, which is supposed to help with fin and skin health. But I'm thinking about whether I should go out and buy some BettaZing, which I understand is meant to treat bacterial infections?
Hello, don't currently keep Bettas now. But I remembered that tea tree is bad for them & Betta fix has it. Hopefully this helps you!!!!! Pic & link to info.
https://bettasandart.com/betta-fish-care-guide/Click image for larger version

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Old 01-25-2023, 11:42 AM   #15
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Yeah, Aiken Drum helped me find that out. I'm really glad I didn't put any in.

I'm sure there's some use for it, but I'm not sure why they'd even market something like this to Bettas...
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:52 AM   #16
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Yeah, Aiken Drum helped me find that out. I'm really glad I didn't put any in.

I'm sure there's some use for it, but I'm not sure why they'd even market something like this to Bettas...
The commercial side of the hobby is almost entirely based on parting customers from their money. They invent products that dont work, that fix problems that dont exist, and some outright cause more issues than they solve. If they sell you something that doesnt help it means they can sell you something else that also probably doesn't do anything useful. They really dont care. The whole industry is unregulated, they can make whatever claims they want with no need to substantiate anything.

See my comment about that eco-biostone.

All you really need is water conditioner and maybe fertiliser if you have live plants. Most things can be dealt with just by looking after things properly.
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:54 AM   #17
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Ohhhh, so that's what you meant...

Well I guess that's nothing new. Businesses seem to have been exploiting the average pet owner's lack of understanding about their pets from the jump.

But it is alarming how much more...overt it is in these instances.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:33 PM   #18
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Hello, don't currently keep Bettas now. But I remembered that tea tree is bad for them & Betta fix has it. Hopefully this helps you!!!!! Pic & link to info.
https://bettasandart.com/betta-fish-care-guide/Attachment 324775
Sorry Aiken Drum, skimmed threw posts & didn't notice you had already addressed problem. Apologies!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2023, 01:13 PM   #19
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Yeah, Aiken Drum helped me find that out. I'm really glad I didn't put any in.

I'm sure there's some use for it, but I'm not sure why they'd even market something like this to Bettas...
Put a few drops in a bowl of hot water and inhale the fumes when you have a cold. You can also use it on wounds to help disinfect them. Just dab some on a tissue and wipe the wound down several times a day. The tea tree oil has anti-microbial properties and is useful for people and animals that don't lick the stuff off, but isn't the best for fish because tea tree oil is poisonous, and most fish medications are also poisonous.

As for companies doing the right thing for animals, it's not going to happen. Animals are still considered as objects and not as sentient beings. Until people think of animals as actual living creatures, they will continue to treat them badly. Unfortunately, by the time that happens, I think we will have gone the way of the dodo, and that's going to happen sooner than people think.

Some of the big companies out there that sell aquarium products have misleading information and even lies on their websites and products. I have brought this to their attention but they don't care. Their response basically was fish keepers are stupid and don't know the difference between different diseases and don't know how to keep fish. Some of the big companies also still push antibiotics, which in this day and age with antibiotic resistant bacteria killing everything, is completely wrong.

Filter manufacturers mislead and lie to customers all the time by saying replace the filter pads every month.

You have major tropical fish suppliers in Asia sending out fish that they know have Fish Tuberculosis and the Gourami Iridovirus, and they don't care. As long as they are making money they won't stop doing their own thing.

There are fish food manufacturers that jump on the human health food kick and add all sorts of things to fish food. I have seen things like garlic, thyme, rosemary, basil, corn, wheat, soy and numerous other plants in fish foods. Fish can't digest any of these but people see it on the label, think it's good for people so must be good for fish, and buy it.

Years ago they added wheat to icecream and chocolate to save money. I can buy a product called corn flour that is made of wheat and the department of consumer protection doesn't think this is misleading or false advertising. I can't buy a bag of wheat flour that is made from corn but I can buy corn flour made from wheat.

We are still using chemical cocktails to treat fish and most of the ingredients haven't changed in the last 50 years. And most of the time you can treat fish diseases with clean water, salt and heat.
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Old 01-25-2023, 01:24 PM   #20
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Sorry Aiken Drum, skimmed threw posts & didn't notice you had already addressed problem. Apologies!!!!!
Its a forum. Post whatever you feel is relevant. Doesnt matter if its already been raised, it will reinforce that point with the OP.
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