different way of getting co2?

[krap101]

i heard on tv that when baking soda is heated it releases co2.

im guessing since no one else is doing this, it takes a pretty high temperature to make co2.

 

[PsiPro]

http://users.rcn.com/sue.interport/food/sodaexpt.html

Baking soda + Viniger releases alot of CO2, if you could regulate the flow of it it may make a good supply using a three or four way valve and multiple tanks. I have an idea in my head, it may work and i'de be willing to try to write it down, but you can proably figure it out .

 

[krap101]

well, i was thinking of vinegar+baking soda, but i'd think it would put something off besides co2? and it happens too fast, but i guess thats what the regulator's for

 

[PsiPro]

No, it shouldn't. If both are pure, you get:
CH3COOH + NaHCO3 --› CO2 + NaCO3 + H2O

so it is no more risky then using pressurized CO2, however regulating it would be the hardest part.

 

[krap101]

im thinking about a different way of killing algae. from what ive heard algae is a simple life form and plants are more complex, therefore algae cant use co2. im thinking of using 2 2 liter bottles, and maybe something to keep the baking soda solution from the other. fill one with water, and the other with vinegar and baking soda. (maybe dilute the vinegar with distilled water to slow down the process?)

would a high enough content of co2 kill a plant? if not, it shouldnt directly kill the algae, but the plant can get a better use of the nutrients in the water, and the co2 should give it the advantage. im planning on using a 2 liter bottle for the plant (and maybe some sort of light source) to try and keep the co2 concentrated..

while writing this i noticed that to use the co2, plants need alot of light, would this work, or am i wasting my time?

oh and thx u psi for your replies

 

[PsiPro]

Using CO2 to kill alge, usually when using CO2 againsts alge you try to make an enviroment sutiable for the plant so they outcompete the alge for nutrients.

To slow down the process, diluting viniger would work, but it would still be extreamly fast. Perhaps using a drip of viniger into the bottle with the baking soda. If we can figure out how many bubbles/hour you want, we can get an estimate of how many drops of viniger/min you need, and how much viniger and baking soda per month would be needed, its all highschool/college physics and chemistry.

Sombody who has pressurized CO2, can you post your tank size, bubles per minute you use, size of CO2 tank, how many days / months between visits. What is your PSI of your tank, and temperature of your house / fish room/where ever you keep tank.

 

[krap101]

oh i guess another problem with using a 2 liter bottle, would be that the water doesnt have any surface agitation for the co2 to diffuse into it.

ahh this is getting interesting . you could use a siphon out of a bottle and some way to time the amount of drops? with an airline regulator or something?

 

[hashbaz]

I'm a big fan of creativity, but wouldn't yeast be easier?

Also, I don't think a short, massive dose of CO2 will kill your algae without killing your fish.

 

[krap101]

thats why i was going to seperate it from the tank, in some other container.

for me, if this works, i think it would be simpler, but thats just me

 

[jcarlilesiu]

High doses of CO2 won't kill your plants based on my experience, sometimes mine gets as high as 45 ppm. i am able to accomplish this because of my KH value which is around 5.5 - 6. This allows me a buffer in order to stablize PH under high amounts of CO2. In a tank with out that buffer, a high amount of CO2 will drop PH to unsafe levels for fish. I have never seen my tank drop below 6.6 - 6.8 PH even with 45 PPMs of CO2. Keep the relationship between CO2 concentration and PH in mind when you start dosing by this method as you could have massive fish die off with no buffer to accomodate the CO2 levels.

Earlier it was asked that somebody provide information on the pressurized system. He is my set up and count.

I have a 56 gallon tall aquarium 36WX18DX24H

I have a 10 pound pressurized tank

I am putting in around 2-3 bubbles per second utilizing a spiral bubble ladder with dedicated power head. (keep in mind that I do have quite a bit of surface movement due to filter and bio-wheel which means i inject at higher values due to outgasing)

Tank Temp is around 78-79 degrees

Room temp is around 72

I have yet to fill up my 10 pound tank in 4 months

I hope this helps in your fomula

 

[PsiPro]

I'm a big fan of creativity, but wouldn't yeast be easier?

Yeast would be easier, but this idea will create a mini-pressurized system, allowing us to store the CO2 in the bottle and generate as much as we need at will. If this can be done, who knows, but its always fun to try

For controling the drops, yea just use somthign to pinch the tube to limit the flow.

I'm going to read over those numbers and see what I can come up with.

 

[PsiPro]

jcarlilesiu: the idea is a with these numbers I can find out how many cm^3 of CO2 you are putting into the tank per second, and therefor tell how much Baking soda and viniger would be required to match that ammount. If you cant tell me how often you refil, can you tell me the change in PSI from when it was filled to now?

 

[malkore]

No, it shouldn't. If both are pure, you get:
CH3COOH + NaHCO3 --› CO2 + NaCO3 + H2O

so it is no more risky then using pressurized CO2, however regulating it would be the hardest part.

yes, regulating is the hard part, because you can't control the chemical reaction. You would need an unbreakable vessel large enough to hold all the released CO2, adn then regulate its release.

But since its raw gas...the more gas you use, the less pressure inside, so the output decreases.

Aside form the fact that you'd have to refill it at least once per day. it would hardly be automated...you'd be better off buying Excel, or just making a traditional DIY CO2 system.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

If you cant tell me how often you refil, can you tell me the change in PSI from when it was filled to now?

Tanks store Co2 in a liquid state. The pressure @ room temperature is always around 850PSI. If it's ever less then that then it's time to get it filled.

 

[krap101]

couldnt you control the chemical reaction through the amount of vinegar put in?

 

[malkore]

couldnt you control the chemical reaction through the amount of vinegar put in?

the only way I see controlling it, is some kind of automated dropper system, that drips a specific amount/rate of vinegar onto the baking soda.

you could control how quickly you use up the baking soda, and semi-regulate it, but you cannot easily control the chemical reaction itself. you'd need to affect it at the molecular level...extreme cold would do it, but isn't feasible.

I suspect an automated drip system would be slightly cheaper than pressurized CO2, but you'd still have to refill everything at least once a day.

 

[krap101]

is pressureized co2 just liquid co2, or a couple chemicals that make co2?

and how would you make a liquid from a gas (besides water)

 

[PsiPro]

To make a liquid out of gas, you have to either put it at high pressure, or low temperature. You cant make liquid CO2 at home, well, its actually called Dry Ice.

Pressurized CO2 is actual CO2, not a reaction.

 

[malkore]

Yup, pressurized CO2 is liquid CO2. it turns from liquid to gas at the regulator at a very slow rate.

CO2 only exists as a solid at very low temperatures, under pressure. This is why dry ice (solid CO2) does't melt into liquid CO2, but sublimates directly to gas form.

at some point in your middle/high school science classes, you'll learn about this kind of stuff.

 

[krap101]

heh. 9th grade... i feel so left out.