Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - Planted Tanks
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 07-27-2005, 09:48 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
New 20G long planted setup

Guys, I have been running freshwater 55 for over 2 years and now want to create a planted tank. I am sorry if my questions sound naive, but I would like to avoid as many mistakes as I can from the beginning. Here are the questions:
1. I have an empty 20G long tank. Do you think it is better to have my new planted setup there, or convert my regular 55 to planted (55 is taller and will require much more light, etc, etc.)
2. Does anyone use sumps with freshwater planted setup? I perfectly know the benefits of the sumps; their use with freshwater setups could be beneficial for various reasons, what I don't know is its combination with planted tanks.
3. I have 2 CF bulbs with built-in ballasts (5500K, screw-in). They are 25W each. Is it OK to use those assuming the 20G setup or I would be better off getting the separate ballasts and separate long CF's?

I appreciate the answers very much!

Captain

__________________
55g Emperor 400, Wet-Dry Pro 30 w/Penguin 660, Ebo-Jager TS 250
- 4 Assorted Angels (Smokey, Marble, Golden)
- 2 Blue Acaras-Aequidens pulcher
- 2 Otocinclus Cats.
- 3 Spotted Corys (Corydoras agassizi)
- 4 Clown Loaches
- 2 Rosy Barbs
captainGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 11:43 AM   #2
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 436
Either tank will work well for a planted tank but you may get a bit fustrated with the 55 as it's not very wider for the plants one tends to put in there. (You'll find there is no true midground area). I have both and they both work well with careful planning. Your setup as far as lights, CO2, and substrate will depend on how much you want to put into the tank. The screw in pc bulbs are very ineffective for lighting. The reflectors that come in incan hoods are awful. For the 20 long (its 30 inches right?) You could get a 55/65 (there's no difference in them) watt PC fixture from a place like Big Al's cheap. This would be enough light to grow just about anything you want. The rest will depend on what types of plants you want. Low tech plants (Crypts, anubias, anacharis, watersprite just to name a few), will not require CO2 injection or much in the way a ferts. This will be your big decision theat needs to be made BEFORE you buy anything. IF you want a low tech, low matainence tank, skip the fixture and use 2-20 watt NO florescent bulbs. For a high tech high matainence tank, you will need a good substrate (eco-complete, flourite, onyx sand, laterite with sand, ADA aquasoil and powersand). These can run a few dollars. You will also want CO2 injection. DIY will work for a tank this size but compressed CO2 will be easier to matain and more cost effective in the long run. Sumps can work but a canister filter would be much more efficient (2 for the 55 gallon is a plus).
__________________
For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...oapebanner.jpg
Simpte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 01:52 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
Thank you for your quick response. I think I will start the 20 first. I will most likely get pressurized CO2 system. I have heard many advices to purchase the tank and regulator from a brewery supply house, they are very inexpensive there (maybe $80-100) altogether. I would like to have heavily planted tank, hence will get into specialized substrates (eco, florite, etc). It is indeed 30" long. I am thinking sump because you can hide all the unsightly heaters and other equipment there. As far as I understand you could use sump for a filter, or you could use sump just as an extension of the main tank to keep the water level constant, hide equipment, etc. One could have canister take water out of main and return to the sump and have another pump run return but that would require very good synch between the two to avoid overfilling of the sump or main tank. Maybe you are right that canister will present less problems.
Where does one purchase plants? LFS's are hopeless and rarely have good stuff.
__________________
55g Emperor 400, Wet-Dry Pro 30 w/Penguin 660, Ebo-Jager TS 250
- 4 Assorted Angels (Smokey, Marble, Golden)
- 2 Blue Acaras-Aequidens pulcher
- 2 Otocinclus Cats.
- 3 Spotted Corys (Corydoras agassizi)
- 4 Clown Loaches
- 2 Rosy Barbs
captainGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 02:36 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
The surfase aggitation will cause CO2 loss with a sump depending on how the water gets down to it.. (you could rig up a sub-surfase extraction of the water to the sump to counter this but its not the pre-made commersial product norm) Balancing pumps would be near impossible (if they were off by a fraction of an gph it would be a mess in no time) But as many people will tell you that CO2 is cheap and if your going to get a preasurized system then you can counter CO2 loss by just giving it more CO2. I personaly would just try to avoid the problem in the fist place.
If your going with the 65watt CF (on the 20gallon) you would benifit from special substrate. and CO2 would be a nessisity. You will be dosing ferts in no time as well.. Check the sticky about fertilizaiton; I would plan ahead and get the ferts before setting a tank like this up. It would be wise to carefully plan what plants you will get for the tank as far as how tall they normaly get because they are going to grow really fast with that much light and CO2. Good Luck
__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 03:01 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 6,703
if you get a regulator from a brewery/keg store/liquor store, fine, but you'll need to purcchase a needle valve, and put it on the regulator.
try a place called harbor freight, and look for the clippard brand needle valve. should fine em for under $20
__________________
Former advisor and planted tank geek...life's moved on though.
malkore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 04:24 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
Plant height is a concern, that is why I will get onto the studying of various kinds.
I could get a kit from ahsupply 1X55w for $42 and build a 30" strip light. I already have the CF for it - it is 21.1" 55W 5500K bulb. The only questions I have are: the bulb is only 21" long, the tank is 30". The reflector is 22" long and the tank is 30". Is it OK to have 4" from both sides uncovered by direct light? Also, would you mount that ballast inside the strip or outside?
Malkore, I could not find needle valve at harborfreight.com
Also, do you guys think that 5500K is in a good spectrum or I have to move up?
thank you
__________________
55g Emperor 400, Wet-Dry Pro 30 w/Penguin 660, Ebo-Jager TS 250
- 4 Assorted Angels (Smokey, Marble, Golden)
- 2 Blue Acaras-Aequidens pulcher
- 2 Otocinclus Cats.
- 3 Spotted Corys (Corydoras agassizi)
- 4 Clown Loaches
- 2 Rosy Barbs
captainGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 04:51 PM   #7
AA Team Emeritus
 
czcz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 2,820
re sumps in freshwater planted:

Pros:
Planting and running sump lighting opposite the main tank keeps pH, and presumably CO2 and O2, closer to stable. Nutrient uptake rate is amazing in such a setup. Injecting CO2 into the return line after the pump gives very good diffusion. Its sweet to dry dose ferts in the sump. You're right about hiding stuff and keeping constant water level -- I love this.

Cons:
You can't use pumps to drain and return and expect success. Look into drilling or an overflow. My only media are prefilters to protect animals, and IME with dense planting and good growth with regular pruning, media (and therefore lots of media in the sump) is unnecessary. Most here do massive water changes under high light systems; this and nutrient uptake from plants makes sump's extra volume mostly irrelevant, assuming sane fish stock. IMO (I DIY'd), unless you want to build or have a sump to learn, or want to conceal a big pump to move a lot of water or some other project, forget sumps for high light planted -- my sump does less and less as I learn more about plants.

re lighting:

AHSupply reflector will give you some light on the edges, but you might get plants in the corners reaching a little for the light. Just keep this in mind and put appropriate plants in those spots.

If I did it over again I would mount my AHSupply ballasts remotely.

Much of 5500K being good depends on aesthetics. I think 6700K looks way better.
__________________
"2- before attempting to plant, have a beer or a Bourbon. That will help to steady your hands…" -- elwaine

wet.biggiantnerds.com
czcz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 07:53 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 6,703
ok, i'm out of town and don't have access to all my resources. just do some google searches for clippard needle valve..you'll find lots of forums posts in the results, many from thekrib, which can help you find a site that sells them.
__________________
Former advisor and planted tank geek...life's moved on though.
malkore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 08:32 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
travis simonson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Englewood, CO
Posts: 2,073
If you go to www.aquatic-store.com and run a search for "needle valve" you'll find several clippard/needle valves at decent prices.
__________________
“There is something in the quality of a good translation that can never be captured in the original.”
-William Gibson
travis simonson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 10:14 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N. CA
Posts: 738
Send a message via MSN to dr_girlfriend
And for your where to buy plants question, www.aquariumplants.com , www.floridadriftwood.com , www.freshwateraquariumplants.com are good places to start.
Also if you have any aquarium socities local, you can get some great deals
Good luck with your tank, this site is a great resource! I think 20 longs make great planted tanks. If youre looking for lighting fixtures, I always look at www.aquatraders.com for some good cheap lights. I'm getting MH and a few more CF fixtures from them soon.
__________________
Fish are friends, not food

We weep for the bird's cry, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have voice.

Pinky: "What are those Brain?" (pointing to a group of people protesting)
Brain: "People without jobs Pinky."

N. California aquarium maintenance, scuba certification, and boat services.

Need computer services in N. California? Click here!
dr_girlfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 10:42 PM   #11
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
You can DIY MH, CF and ODNO for much less then aquatraders sell them for.. If your so inclined..
__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 11:44 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N. CA
Posts: 738
Send a message via MSN to dr_girlfriend
Yeah, but if yer lazy like me theyre cheaper than any other commercial made lighting.
__________________
Fish are friends, not food

We weep for the bird's cry, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have voice.

Pinky: "What are those Brain?" (pointing to a group of people protesting)
Brain: "People without jobs Pinky."

N. California aquarium maintenance, scuba certification, and boat services.

Need computer services in N. California? Click here!
dr_girlfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 08:51 AM   #13
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
Thank you so much for all of your help! We just bought a house and in the process of moving. Here in DC area house is a big deal so we are all excited! Once dust settles down I will get on this 20 right away. As a matter of fact, I might build it into the wall to the under-the-stairs closet which is huge and has electrical hookups.
__________________
55g Emperor 400, Wet-Dry Pro 30 w/Penguin 660, Ebo-Jager TS 250
- 4 Assorted Angels (Smokey, Marble, Golden)
- 2 Blue Acaras-Aequidens pulcher
- 2 Otocinclus Cats.
- 3 Spotted Corys (Corydoras agassizi)
- 4 Clown Loaches
- 2 Rosy Barbs
captainGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2005, 09:00 AM   #14
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 183
By the way, dr_girlfriend, nice cat
I have a question for you: on aquatraders they sell the Odyssea lights and they seem really cool. For $30 you could get 24" strip and they throw in a free bulb??? It seems from the picture that the strip also holds the moonlight. I understand that the moonlight does not come with it. Also, if you ever bought one of these, do you know if those support brackets it has (to secure the light on the tank) are adjustable width-wise? In other words, can you get a 36" strip and adjust the legs for 30" tank?

Thanks
__________________
55g Emperor 400, Wet-Dry Pro 30 w/Penguin 660, Ebo-Jager TS 250
- 4 Assorted Angels (Smokey, Marble, Golden)
- 2 Blue Acaras-Aequidens pulcher
- 2 Otocinclus Cats.
- 3 Spotted Corys (Corydoras agassizi)
- 4 Clown Loaches
- 2 Rosy Barbs
captainGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 12:37 AM   #15
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N. CA
Posts: 738
Send a message via MSN to dr_girlfriend
Thanks

You get the bulb, the moonlights are an extra 20 bucks I think. I cant answer your question on the flip tops, the ones I bought didnt come with them, and I kinda forgot to order them

I dont think that would work to put a 36" fixture over a 30" tank. youd have 6 inches hanging off, I think that would be to much to adjust for. Maybe if you custom did something, I'm not sure. Maybe hung it pendant style. If you were going to build it into the wall, you could make some kind of shelf to slide it into above the tank, if you understand what I'm trying to say. (which I dont half the time, so dont feel bad)
I think for an odd size like 30", youd be better off to stager 2 24" across the top.

http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp...PROD&ProdID=23
These would be the ones you could lay across the top with a glass top between the lighting and the tank. I got 2 of these in the 36" version to do just that.
__________________
Fish are friends, not food

We weep for the bird's cry, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have voice.

Pinky: "What are those Brain?" (pointing to a group of people protesting)
Brain: "People without jobs Pinky."

N. California aquarium maintenance, scuba certification, and boat services.

Need computer services in N. California? Click here!
dr_girlfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2005, 12:41 AM   #16
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N. CA
Posts: 738
Send a message via MSN to dr_girlfriend
Another option I forgot about is http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm
you could custom make a fixture to your size. If youre a little handy

It says on there:

Each reflector in a 55watt Bright Kitâ„¢ is 22 inches long, 4 inches wide and 2 inches high. With a 2x55w Kit, for instance, the two reflectors can be installed end-to-end on a 48" long aquarium in one 4" wide row, or installed front-to-back on a 24" or 30" long aquarium.
__________________
Fish are friends, not food

We weep for the bird's cry, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have voice.

Pinky: "What are those Brain?" (pointing to a group of people protesting)
Brain: "People without jobs Pinky."

N. California aquarium maintenance, scuba certification, and boat services.

Need computer services in N. California? Click here!
dr_girlfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 11:09 AM   #17
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Enid Oklahoma
Posts: 39
Did you ever get your 20G long setup going? This thread just kind of ended.

I'm thinking of a 20G long with a sump as well while minimizing water disturbance as it overflows into the sump. Then attaching an inline reactor after the return pump for pressurized CO2 dissolution.

Czcz, can you go further in depth on what you know about using sumps with FW planted? I would like to find more reading on the usage of a sump with high tech planted.
__________________
WarEagleNR88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005, 03:32 PM   #18
AA Team Emeritus
 
czcz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 2,820
Sure. Is there something in particular you want to know? I've posted what I learned in different threads in the archives, but I use "fuge" sometimes if that helps searching. My website link lists stuff I've tried -- thinning plant load in the reverse photoperiod fuge makes my main tank's growth take off, for example -- but the page is unweildy and I'm redoing the layout after I finish another project. I inject CO2 immediately after the return pump and use the return piping as the reactor, no bioballs or anything, and get the same numbers as my old powerhead reactor. If you'd like I'll start a thread later on my experience with my set-up and hopefully others will contribute their experiences with sumps in high-tech as well... I'm supposed to be working right now
__________________
"2- before attempting to plant, have a beer or a Bourbon. That will help to steady your hands…" -- elwaine

wet.biggiantnerds.com
czcz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2005, 10:04 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Enid Oklahoma
Posts: 39
Yes please start a thread with your experiences on a sump with your 20g long.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------------
Make your work proud to have your name on it.
------------------------------------------------------------
FW 10G Planted
SW 10G Nano Reef
FW 20G long in the works!
WarEagleNR88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 07:16 PM   #20
AA Team Emeritus
 
czcz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: US
Posts: 2,820
I have an 8g+10g actually.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=63074
__________________
"2- before attempting to plant, have a beer or a Bourbon. That will help to steady your hands…" -- elwaine

wet.biggiantnerds.com
czcz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
20 gallon, long, plant, planted, setup

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
20G Long Tank Setup snapplers Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 6 12-18-2009 11:43 AM
What should I put in a 20g long? jvgillow Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 8 02-07-2007 01:12 AM
Updated Pics of my Planted 20g Long Todd2 Members Freshwater Tanks Showcase 2 07-18-2006 03:17 PM
20G (Long ? its 30 inches) joannde Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 0 06-23-2006 03:59 PM
Planted 20G Long WarEagleNR88 Members Freshwater Tanks Showcase 19 06-16-2006 11:49 AM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.