tankmate or no?

[Christoplis]

Just got this guy yesterday after losing one on Sunday. Will he be happier with or without friends?

 

[Christoplis]

Sorry it’s a ten gallon

 

[Mebbid]

Generally, without. But many bettas tolerate some other non betta fish perfectly fine. Just make sure they don't have big showy fins and it should work out well.

 

[Andy Sager]

Generally, without. But many bettas tolerate some other non betta fish perfectly fine. Just make sure they don't have big showy fins and it should work out well.

+1
Bettas really don't care about being alone. It's us that thinks they are lonely. Place a mirror by the tank and you will see how the fish reacts to it's reflection. If he flares or fights the image, tankmates may bring out that same reaction.

 

[Christoplis]

Yea makes complete sense. He already doesn’t like seeing himself in the reflection. I guess I could look it up but I don’t hear about a boy with a girl or two very often. Reason why?

 

[Mebbid]

Because a male will generally harass females to death or kill them outright. Groups of females can be done but have had limited success.

 

[Autumnsky]

In nature they can get away from each other and they don't hang out together in groups as they mature they find their own territory. Mating season is a dangerous time mainly for the female. Females will be attacked an often killed in a fish tank situation, which can not be enough room to get away /out of the males territory.

 

[Angellove78]

I'll tell you from my experience... I have mine in a 10 gallon. Thought I'd try a few guppies, and otts catfish. Now I'm dealing with fin rot, and Ich from the adding of those other fish. I did a water change one day, stressed them all out. Catfish got ich, Betta got fin rot, and the ich spread before I even figured out catfish had it. Betta and guppies got it too. So no, I will never do that again. He's doing better now, slowly! He has the 10 gallon back to himself. If you do add to the tank, just know they get stressed very easy... they love to play, and love the room to swim. Best of luck to you!

 

[Christoplis]

Changing color

You are all awesome. Thank you for your help and time. Most importantly to me is his happiness. We have only had him 2.5 days and he is already changing color. From blue to like an emerald green. It’s staring at his body and working its way out. He is super active and eats 5-6 pellets a day. Not all at once of course. No farting around the tank no being lazy no left over food. When he sees himself in the tank reflection he gets pissy lol

 

[Andy Sager]

I'll tell you from my experience... they love to play, and love the room to swim. Best of luck to you!

Sadly, your experience with your Betta and tankmates is not the typical situation. It sounds more like the other fish may have brought in these conditions which just spread to the betta so others may not have that same experience. My issues are with what I highlighted. The fish has been genetically altered to have elongated and frilly fins which actually makes swimming for them more arduous so NO, they don't really "like" to swim around. Not in nature and not typically in a tank. They do like quiet waters with minimal water movement. This is best shown by their fry. Water movement actually kills the fry. As for the "Love to play", their common name is the "Siamese fighting fish". They don't love to play with other fish. They are not schooling fish and they are not the best community fish. The fish we have today are decendants of the fish captured over 300 years ago and bred specifically to be more aggressive fighting. The losers of those fights were usually dead after the matches. Not all of today's Bettas have a diminished fighting gene so each fish will be an adventure when trying to mix them. For every 1 that is successful, there is 1 that isn't. That's just the nature of this beast.
Lastly, just an FYI, IME, mixing Bettas and Guppies is not really a good mix. Bettas see the flashy colors of the Guppy's tails and think ( I believe) it is another betta so they nip at them. So if you are going to ever mix a Betta with other fish, I'd choose less colorful, non fin nipping fish as tankmates.

Because a male will generally harass females to death or kill them outright. Groups of females can be done but have had limited success.

+1. Today's females are showing more aggression than ever before. There seems to be a corrolation between the females becoming more colorful and their aggression level rising. So mixing females will always be a crap shoot.

In nature they can get away from each other and they don't hang out together in groups as they mature they find their own territory. Mating season is a dangerous time mainly for the female. Females will be attacked an often killed in a fish tank situation, which can not be enough room to get away /out of the males territory.

+1

Yea makes complete sense. He already doesn’t like seeing himself in the reflection. I guess I could look it up but I don’t hear about a boy with a girl or two very often. Reason why?

As you will read in my comments above, today's fish are a total crap shoot on whether they will get along or not. Betta splendens is one of the more interesting ( and frustrating) fish we keep because of their lineage. Today's fish as a whole follow no standardized pattern. You can say that all or most, say, Guppies for example, share a common behavior. Same with most other fish species too. Bettas are not like that. Each fish has it's own personality so you will never know what you are going to get until you see. This is also one of the reasons they can be kept alone, quite successfully, because they don't care about being alone. In the 50 years since I started breeding these fish, I have seen some but not many changes in the fish. Before, keeping 2 males together had a 90%-95% failure rating. The only time 2 males could be kept together was if they were brothers that were never separated. Now, there are more successes however, it is not guaranteed. As I said above, the females have become more aggressive than before. When I bring a new batch to my local stores, they cannot put them in with their old stock. They must go into a different tank. That was not the case 20,30,40+ years ago.
So you can see, this fish is a complicated case study in behavior.
Hope this answers your question.

 

[Angellove78]

Sadly, your experience with your Betta and tankmates is not the typical situation. It sounds more like the other fish may have brought in these conditions which just spread to the betta so others may not have that same experience. My issues are with what I highlighted. The fish has been genetically altered to have elongated and frilly fins which actually makes swimming for them more arduous so NO, they don't really "like" to swim around. Not in nature and not typically in a tank. They do like quiet waters with minimal water movement. This is best shown by their fry. Water movement actually kills the fry. As for the "Love to play", their common name is the "Siamese fighting fish". They don't love to play with other fish. They are not schooling fish and they are not the best community fish. The fish we have today are decendants of the fish captured over 300 years ago and bred specifically to be more aggressive fighting. The losers of those fights were usually dead after the matches. Not all of today's Bettas have a diminished fighting gene so each fish will be an adventure when trying to mix them. For every 1 that is successful, there is 1 that isn't. That's just the nature of this beast.
Lastly, just an FYI, IME, mixing Bettas and Guppies is not really a good mix. Bettas see the flashy colors of the Guppy's tails and think ( I believe) it is another betta so they nip at them. So if you are going to ever mix a Betta with other fish, I'd choose less colorful, non fin nipping fish as tankmates.


+1. Today's females are showing more aggression than ever before. There seems to be a corrolation between the females becoming more colorful and their aggression level rising. So mixing females will always be a crap shoot.



+1



As you will read in my comments above, today's fish are a total crap shoot on whether they will get along or not. Betta splendens is one of the more interesting ( and frustrating) fish we keep because of their lineage. Today's fish as a whole follow no standardized pattern. You can say that all or most, say, Guppies for example, share a common behavior. Same with most other fish species too. Bettas are not like that. Each fish has it's own personality so you will never know what you are going to get until you see. This is also one of the reasons they can be kept alone, quite successfully, because they don't care about being alone. In the 50 years since I started breeding these fish, I have seen some but not many changes in the fish. Before, keeping 2 males together had a 90%-95% failure rating. The only time 2 males could be kept together was if they were brothers that were never separated. Now, there are more successes however, it is not guaranteed. As I said above, the females have become more aggressive than before. When I bring a new batch to my local stores, they cannot put them in with their old stock. They must go into a different tank. That was not the case 20,30,40+ years ago.
So you can see, this fish is a complicated case study in behavior.
Hope this answers your question.

One: think you should maybe read my post again. Or I can rewrite it to some better understanding. I didn't say they like to play with other fish, and didn't say they like to swim in high speed waves. And the guppies I added were not fancy. They were small endler guppies. And last: Yes! The reason of my problems with my Betta is because I made a bad choice getting some fish from a pet store, who was treating other fish in other tanks. I was not aware of the water being shared with the ones I got. Also, I didn't help anything when I did my water change a few days after getting them. This is ALL my mistake. Not saying you shouldn't add other fish, and not say you should. It's up to the person and what they do to make it work! No stress is a big deal! If someone decides to add fish to a Betta tank I just think its best to add Betta last. Everything works different ways for everybody. It is truly your own choice. I just wanted to share my story on what I dealt with, is all! No need to bite heads off here. Everyone has they're own opinion. Sorry, for any upset!

 

[Andy Sager]

One: think you should maybe read my post again. Or I can rewrite it to some better understanding. I didn't say they like to play with other fish, and didn't say they like to swim in high speed waves. And the guppies I added were not fancy. They were small endler guppies. And last: Yes! The reason of my problems with my Betta is because I made a bad choice getting some fish from a pet store, who was treating other fish in other tanks. I was not aware of the water being shared with the ones I got. Also, I didn't help anything when I did my water change a few days after getting them. This is ALL my mistake. Not saying you shouldn't add other fish, and not say you should. It's up to the person and what they do to make it work! No stress is a big deal! If someone decides to add fish to a Betta tank I just think its best to add Betta last. Everything works different ways for everybody. It is truly your own choice. I just wanted to share my story on what I dealt with, is all! No need to bite heads off here. Everyone has they're own opinion. Sorry, for any upset!

I just reread your post and, with all due respect, I stand with what I posted. Your comments regarding "play" is factually incorrect as is their "liking" of swimming around in a larger body of water.
As for the above "No need to bite heads off here." that was not my intent so my apologies if you were offended. I was just trying to give you & the OP some factual information. As I explained, this fish is one of the most misunderstood fish we keep. Everybody can have an opinion but many differ from the facts. I've been involved in many discussions on this site regarding Betta fact vs opinion and I can tell ya, there are a lot of opinions here that don't align with the facts.
Regarding your comment "It's up to the person and what they do to make it work!" once again, this is misleading. You cannot "make" a Betta situation always work. Sometimes they just don't and nothing you do will change that. That IS the nature of this fish.

 

[Angellove78]

K...that is your opinions just like everyone else. Best of luck to you.

 

[Andy Sager]

K...that is your opinions just like everyone else. Best of luck to you.

That's my point, that's NOT my OPINION. It's facts based on research by experts, personal experiences working with the fish and decades of written knowledge about the specie. There is no "opinion" in my posts about Bettas.

EDIT: Here's a link you might like to look at: http://www.bettatalk.com/learn_about_bettas.htm
There are a number of links on the left of that page that address different aspects of bettas from their history to behavior to types, etc.
My only "opinion" difference with this author is their place in a "community" tank. For me, that all depends on what is in the community.

 

[Christoplis]

So Andy is the color changing from blue to green something I should worry about?

 

[Andy Sager]

So Andy is the color changing from blue to green something I should worry about?

No. Some Bettas actually change colors throughout their lives. A Betta scale has layers of color so the light hits the scale one way and it shows one color then hits it another way and it looks a different color.
Here's a link that might help you understand this better.
Betta genetics: color and form - Inglorious Bettas

 

[Christoplis]

No. Some Bettas actually change colors throughout their lives. A Betta scale has layers of color so the light hits the scale one way and it shows one color then hits it another way and it looks a different color.
Here's a link that might help you understand this better.
Betta genetics: color and form - Inglorious Bettas

Thank you very much for the info u provided. I will differently check it out after work today

 

[Christoplis]

With and without flash

No. Some Bettas actually change colors throughout their lives. A Betta scale has layers of color so the light hits the scale one way and it shows one color then hits it another way and it looks a different color.
Here's a link that might help you understand this better.
Betta genetics: color and form - Inglorious Bettas

What color would you call him?

 

[IHaveAquariums]

Just to throw this out there but I actually kept 2 males together once I've had one for a while and he is not agressive at all and this newer one wasn't either so I added them into a 10g together and they layed next to each other on the bottom and no one fought but I separated them just because I didn't want any problems when I was gone haha, and that's a very pretty bettafix!

 

[Angellove78]

That's my point, that's NOT my OPINION. It's facts based on research by experts, personal experiences working with the fish and decades of written knowledge about the specie. There is no "opinion" in my posts about Bettas.

EDIT: Here's a link you might like to look at: http://www.bettatalk.com/learn_about_bettas.htm
There are a number of links on the left of that page that address different aspects of bettas from their history to behavior to types, etc.
My only "opinion" difference with this author is their place in a "community" tank. For me, that all depends on what is in the community.

I stand corrected! Wow! Think I'm getting more Betta's. ? I took the filter out of my 10 gallon just to see what he does. He looked so column and peacful. Just kinda floating around. So that means a smaller tank would be OK. All the sites I've been on and everything I read tells me they like to swim and like a very soft (stream like) water movement,and so on. This site is more for breeders. But it's very good and understanding info. It explains alot on why some people have something wrong with their Betta when things go wrong. The stress from having to move all the time just to keep up with the water in the tank will differently do it and to add to that who knows what will happen. I wanta thank you! I might just get a 5 gallon or a divider for the 10 gallon so I can get another one. ??