4+ weeks of Cycling Fishless and no changes...what am I doing wrong?

[bcurlacher54]

i was gonna suggest doing all test on your water straight from the tap. have you tried just starting over. dose it up to 4ppm and test it every 24hrs and being very patient. once you see ANY drop at all dose it back up again. i used eco23's advise to a T. my main problem was that my nitrites were always off the chart high. and then magically one day they started to go down, right out of the blue.

 

[James_in_MN]

Thanks, maybe if this last bit of seeded gravel and argonite doesn't work I'll consider it. But buying a whole new setup, especially buying everything separately, will probably cost more extra money than I have at the moment (more than what I'm sure PetSmart will give me for the used tank), plus I have no idea about HOB filters vs other types and what to look for or to buy, etc., so it might be more complicated than it's worth. Also the largest stand I have is the one I'm currently using which fits the length of my bowfront perfectly, I wouldn't be able to get a tank longer than that without buying a whole new stand and, again, it comes to the money issue. And if it isn't the tank itself and it's my water.....then buying a whole new setup won't work anyway and just probably send me insane trying to do this all over again and being another 2+ months in and not having fish. lol.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind though, it'll be an option I'll have to consider if this tank isn't cycled in another couple of weeks.

Thanks again.

How much did you pay for that tank? Amazon has it listed in the $80 range.

I think you could pick up a 10-20g tank for less than $30. PetCo and PetSmart have run deals where you can buy a tank for $1 per gallon, so I'd start there.

If it's a 20g tank you get, I'd get an AquaClear 50 for $30-35 (Amazon has it for just under $30). For smaller tanks, you could get an AquaClear 20 for less than $25. Everyone here swears by AquaClear, including me. They have a large filter basket, and the filter media is some of the best on the market. I'd only fill it with the filter foam and bag of ceramic rings.

I was able to find an Aqueon deluxe hood with connections for two 15-30w incandescent bulbs for $20ish at Pet Supplies Plus. I then purchased two CFLs for less than $20 for my planted tank. If you don't go with plants, you may be able to get away with a deluxe hood with one florescent bulb instead for around the same price minus the additional bulb purchase (the florescent deluxe hood from Aqueon does come with the florescent bulb).

If you're able to catch a tank sale at one of the chain stores, you should be able to keep your costs at $70 or less. This is, of course, assuming you use the heater, substrate, and decorations you have now. If you can only get in-store credit at the pet store you purchased that tank at, your costs could go up a bit depending on their prices.

I still think you should look into this option. Keep in mind that if you used a store membership card to buy it, they'll have the receipt on file. You've had too much trouble with that tank to continue to beat yourself up trying to get that substandard filter to work out.

Now, if you don't think you could return that tank for whatever reason, another possibility would be to nix the entire hood/filter combo and buy an AquaClear 20 with DIY lighting.

 

[librarygirl]

How much did you pay for that tank? Amazon has it listed in the $80 range.

I think you could pick up a 10-20g tank for less than $30. PetCo and PetSmart have run deals where you can buy a tank for $1 per gallon, so I'd start there.

If it's a 20g tank you get, I'd get an AquaClear 50 for $30-35 (Amazon has it for just under $30). For smaller tanks, you could get an AquaClear 20 for less than $25. Everyone here swears by AquaClear, including me. They have a large filter basket, and the filter media is some of the best on the market. I'd only fill it with the filter foam and bag of ceramic rings.

I was able to find an Aqueon deluxe hood with connections for two 15-30w incandescent bulbs for $20ish at Pet Supplies Plus. I then purchased two CFLs for less than $20 for my planted tank. If you don't go with plants, you may be able to get away with a deluxe hood with one florescent bulb instead for around the same price minus the additional bulb purchase (the florescent deluxe hood from Aqueon does come with the florescent bulb).

If you're able to catch a tank sale at one of the chain stores, you should be able to keep your costs at $70 or less. This is, of course, assuming you use the heater, substrate, and decorations you have now. If you can only get in-store credit at the pet store you purchased that tank at, your costs could go up a bit depending on their prices.

I still think you should look into this option. Keep in mind that if you used a store membership card to buy it, they'll have the receipt on file. You've had too much trouble with that tank to continue to beat yourself up trying to get that substandard filter to work out.

Now, if you don't think you could return that tank for whatever reason, another possibility would be to nix the entire hood/filter combo and buy an AquaClear 20 with DIY lighting.

Thanks again, that's helpful! Yes I did pay about that much, it may have been on sale when I bought it if I remember right, but it was around that figure. I do have a membership card, but they must have some sort of limitation on how long a purchase can go before a return is invalid. I'll have to look up their policies.

 

[librarygirl]

Isn't a definition of insanity repeating the same action and expecting a different result?

Each night I think, tonight is the night the ammonia is going to be zero!

Wrong again lol

Ammonia: around 3-4, I don't know anymore (under 8 and more than 2, that's about all I can tell for sure). Maybe it's too high? As soon as I drop both reagents in, it turns 0.25, so maybe there's too much ammonia?

NitrItes: 0

NitrAtes: still 10

PH: still dark blue, off chart

High PH: went up to 7.8 from 7.4

There's also a line of small white bubbles/foam on the waterline of the front of the tank, but no bubbles/suds on the surface otherwise.

So, I know Eco says it's still within the time frame of the seeded material working, BUT at this point I have to decide what I'm going to do if I don't see any changes by early next week because, let's face it, at this point, it's probably safe to assume there won't be.

Option 1: Blow up the tank and forget fishkeeping

Option 2: Try to return the tank (if not, THEN blow it up) and quit fishkeeping

Option 3: Try to return the tank, if I can't return it then blow it up. Then assume that something either got into the tank to contaminate it or it's my water. In which case I should account for both and buy a whole new system and get water from another source (either trying to bring tap water from where I work or look into the R/O water or some other option).

I stink at making decisions lol

Hm, apparently my city/state (Providence, RI) was listed as #2 as having the best quality drinking water. Not sure if that means anything in regards to the tank, but, maybe it isn't the water? Although I live in Johston, a small town. Not sure where I get my water from. I then went to the EWG Tap Water Database and entered my zip code; it says there I get my water from the Johnston supplier. Then if you click on the Johnston supplier, you get contaminants listed. Same for Providence water (I get my water from either one or the other, not sure which). Of course I have no idea what I'm looking at.

Edit: added pics of the waterline and a photo of the ammonia from tonight.

 

[eco23]

I still blame the cat .

I don't think it's your cities water supply, I think it's something in the tank causing the problem. I know you've been very careful about keeping everything clean and away from your tank...I'm almost wondering if it's something along the lines of a manufacturing error...and some sort of substance is leeching...tbh, I can't tell you.

As you just said, you're still within the acceptable time frame to see if the seeding material works...if it doesn't, we know it's the tank or the water. If you decide to try again from scratch if it doesn't work out this time (which I still have a small glimmer of hope it will), you can always look into the option of filling the tank with something like spring water to initially fill the tank and use for pwc's. That will work if it's the water supply that's the problem...and if it's not an issue with the actual tank. I would obviously recommend a THOROUGH cleaning of every single part of the aquarium if you decided to stick with that model.

If all else fails...I'll drive to RI and smash it for you, lol.

 

[librarygirl]

I still blame the cat .

I don't think it's your cities water supply, I think it's something in the tank causing the problem. I know you've been very careful about keeping everything clean and away from your tank...I'm almost wondering if it's something along the lines of a manufacturing error...and some sort of substance is leeching...tbh, I can't tell you.

As you just said, you're still within the acceptable time frame to see if the seeding material works...if it doesn't, we know it's the tank or the water. If you decide to try again from scratch if it doesn't work out this time (which I still have a small glimmer of hope it will), you can always look into the option of filling the tank with something like spring water to initially fill the tank and use for pwc's. That will work if it's the water supply that's the problem...and if it's not an issue with the actual tank. I would obviously recommend a THOROUGH cleaning of every single part of the aquarium if you decided to stick with that model.

If all else fails...I'll drive to RI and smash it for you, lol.

Thanks Eco. I edited my post above to add some pics and links to the water supply tests, not sure if you saw those (or if it'll make any difference).

If I did start over I'd probably just trash the whole setup and start with something new. While the tank itself is nice I hate the filter and access from the hood, so maybe James is right and I should scrap the whole thing and piece together something myself. I went with this model b/c 1) it's the longest thing that will fit on my current stand; I can't get anything longer and a large rectangular tank wouldn't fit other than a 10 gal and 2) I hate the look of most rectangular tanks, especially the black seams on the edges. This tank is seamless which is nice. I'm quite picky

I'll hang in there until mid-week of next week then I think it'll be safe to say it's a dud.

On the Spring water: wouldn't that not be good for the fish? Because it lacks nutrients? My luck I'd cycle with spring water, put fish in, then kill everything with my tap water.

 

[eco23]

Thanks Eco. I edited my post above to add some pics and links to the water supply tests, not sure if you saw those (or if it'll make any difference).

If I did start over I'd probably just trash the whole setup and start with something new. While the tank itself is nice I hate the filter and access from the hood, so maybe James is right and I should scrap the whole thing and piece together something myself. I went with this model b/c 1) it's the longest thing that will fit on my current stand; I can't get anything longer and a large rectangular tank wouldn't fit other than a 10 gal and 2) I hate the look of most rectangular tanks, especially the black seams on the edges. This tank is seamless which is nice. I'm quite picky

I'll hang in there until mid-week of next week then I think it'll be safe to say it's a dud.

On the Spring water: wouldn't that not be good for the fish? Because it lacks nutrients? My luck I'd cycle with spring water, put fish in, then kill everything with my tap water.

Actual spring water would have plenty of minerals in it. Reverse osmosis is what completely strips the nutrients, and if that's used you'll basically have to supplement them back in. If you ended up going that route, you could just keep a big bottle on hand for your pwc's. If everything cycled right, I'd just keep using the spring water and avoid the tap out of an abundance of caution. Using bottled water for aquariums is not something I'm real familiar with, so it's definitely worth some research.

 

[librarygirl]

Hm, well I doubt I can return the tank. Here's PetSmart's policy (and if you go down to read under the "exceptions" it says "filters or pumps" which I assume includes my entire tank:

"Returns or exchanges without a receipt - or with a receipt older than 60 days
Bring the product and a valid ID to any store and you'll be issued a merchandise return card for the most recent sale amount. If you're exchanging a product, any positive balance will be refunded in the original form of tender.
Return Exceptions

You must have a valid receipt to return or exchange any of the following products when they cost $10 or more:
Electronic merchandise such as collars, fencing and training items
Grooming tools
Filters or pumps
Pet medication or vitamins"

So I guess I'm blowing the thing up...

 

[librarygirl]

Actual spring water would have plenty of minerals in it. Reverse osmosis is what completely strips the nutrients, and if that's used you'll basically have to supplement them back in. If you ended up going that route, you could just keep a big bottle on hand for your pwc's. If everything cycled right, I'd just keep using the spring water and avoid the tap out of an abundance of caution. Using bottled water for aquariums is not something I'm real familiar with, so it's definitely worth some research.

Hm, so do you think I should drain my tank now and try it with the Spring Water, just in case, or let it be for now? Sorry, I know I'm a pain...

 

[eco23]

Hm, so do you think I should drain my tank now and try it with the Spring Water, just in case, or let it be for now? Sorry, I know I'm a pain...

You're not a pain . If I was in your situation they'd probably throw me off AA cause I'd be so crazy, lol. Just keep letting it sit for a few more days like we talked about. I wouldn't drain the tank now because if we go that route I'd like to see a serious cleaning of the tank before we start over.

 

[James_in_MN]

Hm, well I doubt I can return the tank. Here's PetSmart's policy (and if you go down to read under the "exceptions" it says "filters or pumps" which I assume includes my entire tank:

"Returns or exchanges without a receipt - or with a receipt older than 60 days
Bring the product and a valid ID to any store and you'll be issued a merchandise return card for the most recent sale amount. If you're exchanging a product, any positive balance will be refunded in the original form of tender.
Return Exceptions

You must have a valid receipt to return or exchange any of the following products when they cost $10 or more:
Electronic merchandise such as collars, fencing and training items
Grooming tools
Filters or pumps
Pet medication or vitamins"

So I guess I'm blowing the thing up...

Don't assume that quite yet. I'd call them up first, explain the situation, and see if they'll accept a return. They should have the receipt on file.

It also shouldn't matter about the filter caveat because it's a kit. You're returning the entire thing.

I've returned a whole kit to PetSmart (Marineland 5g Hex) without issues. I did have the receipt, but if I didn't, I'm sure they would have been able to produce it for me because of the membership.

Again, if all else fails, instead of throwing out the entire kit, ditch the useless hood/filter combo and get an AquaClear 20 with DIY lighting. They're should be some type of clip on lamp (from Wal-Mart or Target) you can use a CFL from the pet store with.

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

i dont think its the city i live in the same city and cycled without a problem

 

[James_in_MN]

I don't think it has anything to do with the water at all. I do think that it's the sub-par filter that comes with the Marineland Eclipse kits.

 

[librarygirl]

Well I'm getting nervous.....either the tank won't cycle and then I'll have to figure out what to do (probably) or the tank will cycle and I have to figure out whether it would even be safe to put fish in given all the problems I've had with it.

I did go to PetSmart today just to check out other tanks and ask about mine. They said their record only goes back 8 days in the system, so without a receipt they would not be able to look up that I purchased the item. And I don't have the receipt.

At this point I"m really leaning towards starting over with a new system. The issue is the cabinet I have is only 17" wide, so unless I buy another new model of the same tank (which I want to get away from Marineland products) the only other thing that will fit on my current stand is a traditional 10 gal rectangular which seems small to me.

I went online at PetCo (not sure if they sell these in store) but they have some nice simple black iron scroll stands for $30-$45, depending on how large I wanted it. At PetSmart, I saw two options for tanks today:

The first was a TopFin 20 gallon high (23"w x 12.5" d x 16.7" h) with hood, light, and free aqueon quiet flow filter for $59.99. I liked the tank, but it might be a bit high for African Dwarf Frogs, unless I can get some decor they could use to swim to the top for air.

The second was a 20 gallon long (Top Fin) (30.2" w, x 12.5" d x 12.7" h), but it's the tank only for $31.99. Of course then I'd have to buy a canopy w/ lights and filter system.

In either case I would also need to buy a new stand. I do have long table that holds my stereo, but it wasn't made for aquariums and I don't want to take the chance of having it buckle at some point.

So not sure what to do, do I want to potentially sink another $100+ into this with no guarantee of a cycle working the second time? And if so, should I even try it with my tap water or just use spring water to be safe?

I don't know.... So, that's where I am right now.

I haven't tested the tank tonight, I need a night off from disappointment. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[jetajockey]

I wouldn't blame the tank, it's really not likely to be the issue, its only glass and silicone.

 

[James_in_MN]

I did go to PetSmart today just to check out other tanks and ask about mine. They said their record only goes back 8 days in the system, so without a receipt they would not be able to look up that I purchased the item. And I don't have the receipt.

PetCo does have their info on file no matter the purchase date. It's too bad that PetSmart doesn't have their system set up the same way.

I called the local PetSmart that I've frequented, and they said you can get a copy of your receipt by calling the corporate office at 800-738-1385 (if the number doesn't show due to forum policy, message me for it). They should be able to email you a copy of your receipt if you either used a PetPerks membership card or a credit card.

From the conversation I had, you should be able to get fully refunded and not be locked into in-store credit only.

At this point I"m really leaning towards starting over with a new system. The issue is the cabinet I have is only 17" wide, so unless I buy another new model of the same tank (which I want to get away from Marineland products) the only other thing that will fit on my current stand is a traditional 10 gal rectangular which seems small to me.

If you don't decide to attempt to get a copy of your receipt and return it, I still suggest keeping the bowfront (you said you liked that style) and just replacing the lighting and filter.

 

[librarygirl]

PetCo does have their info on file no matter the purchase date. It's too bad that PetSmart doesn't have their system set up the same way.

I called the local PetSmart that I've frequented, and they said you can get a copy of your receipt by calling the corporate office at 800-738-1385 (if the number doesn't show due to forum policy, message me for it). They should be able to email you a copy of your receipt if you either used a PetPerks membership card or a credit card.

From the conversation I had, you should be able to get fully refunded and not be locked into in-store credit only.

If you don't decide to attempt to get a copy of your receipt and return it, I still suggest keeping the bowfront (you said you liked that style) and just replacing the lighting and filter.

OMG you are so sweet! I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if I can get a copy of the receipt.

Yes I do like the tank itself, I hate the lighting and filter and hood. But since it's a bow front and not a classic rectangular shape I'm not sure I would be able to find another hood/lighting system that would fit it. Maybe I'll look online tomorrow and see what I can find. ALthough, oddly, the few canopies/lighting combinations that I've seen would cost almost double than buying a whole new tank setup. Which is weird.

Thanks again!

 

[librarygirl]

Well I officially give up, at least with this tank.

Maybe it's the tank, maybe it's the water, maybe something got INTO the tank without my realizing...I have a sneaking suspicion it's the crappy filter, but I'll never know, and without knowing, I wouldn't trust anything living in that tank, even if it did cycle (tested the water one last time and ammonia is still steady at around 2-3). And I thought about this last night: the ammonia started to drop on its own twice and then twice it stopped. NitrItes seemed to start rising twice (not 0 but not quite 0.25, a bluish-purple color) and both times the next day it went back to the bright blue of zero. So something is wrong.

So..I just dismantled it. It's currently drying out in my bathtub. Threw out everything that was in the tank too (decor, gravel, air stone, thermometer). I kept the heater b/c it's new, I'll just rinse it in hot water before I use it again.

I called the corporate PetSmart office and they're closed until tomorrow, but hopefully I can get my receipt and a refund.

In the meantime....I think today I'm going to go get that 20 gal tall w/ canopy, lights and filter for $55 (which is less than what I paid for mine and I get 8 gals more!). My current cabinet will hold it, it'll just come off sides a bit, but it'll do for now.

I'm getting new gravel and decor too. Just starting fresh. I figure I should get most of it "free" in the end if I get a full refund from my old tank.

It comes with an Aqueon Silent 20 filter. Looks like it has a filter pad like the Marineland did and not much room for anything else. I might not use it and see what other kind of filters they have, maybe a canister that I can use with some ceramic rings, etc which I've read seems to be better than the pads. We'll see when I get there.

The other question is: try again with my tap water or try with Spring water (and would I need a dechlorinator?)....?

So.....fishless cycling Take II.

I must be a masochist

Special thanks to everyone who replied to this thread and tried to help, particularly Eco, WolfPack and James_In-MN. You rock!

 

[James_in_MN]

So..I just dismantled it. It's currently drying out in my bathtub. Threw out everything that was in the tank too (decor, gravel, air stone, thermometer). I kept the heater b/c it's new, I'll just rinse it in hot water before I use it again.

I called the corporate PetSmart office and they're closed until tomorrow, but hopefully I can get my receipt and a refund.

I can completely understand why you'd dismantle that aquarium, and glad you made that decision. Keeping aquariums is a fun hobby, and that thing was taking all of the fun out of it.

Hopefully PetSmart will allow the return with no questions asked.

In the meantime....I think today I'm going to go get that 20 gal tall w/ canopy, lights and filter for $55 (which is less than what I paid for mine and I get 8 gals more!). My current cabinet will hold it, it'll just come off sides a bit, but it'll do for now.

I'm getting new gravel and decor too. Just starting fresh. I figure I should get most of it "free" in the end if I get a full refund from my old tank.

It comes with an Aqueon Silent 20 filter. Looks like it has a filter pad like the Marineland did and not much room for anything else. I might not use it and see what other kind of filters they have, maybe a canister that I can use with some ceramic rings, etc which I've read seems to be better than the pads. We'll see when I get there.

I switched from Aqueon Quietflows to AquaClear filters on both of my aquariums, and suggest that you do the same. There's more room and better filtration with the large basket they have. Only use the filter pad and bag of ceramic rings though; don't bother adding the carbon.

The other question is: try again with my tap water or try with Spring water (and would I need a dechlorinator?)....?

Just use your tap water. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with it.

Special thanks to everyone who replied to this thread and tried to help, particularly Eco, WolfPack and James_In-MN. You rock!

Glad I could help. That's why we're here.

 

[Ickletas]

Haven't had any input on this thread (had no input to give to be honest! lol) but have followed it for a little while. Just wanted to say that I hope you get your refund and that your next tank is more successful