4 year old goldfish with recurring swim bladder issues and new red spots

[Goldiemomma]

Hi Everyone -

I've not yet had a chance to post an intro on the site, but I have a sick goldfish and I'm looking for some advice/guidance.

I guess about a year ago, one of my two (Comet) goldfish started having some swim bladder issues. They were always of the positive buoyancy type, and relatively minor - he'd look just a bit floaty at the tail end and the situation would resolve in a day or two. During some of these episodes, he'd have a bit of bulging on his right side between his ventral and anal fins - a situation I chalked up to constipation. He'd always appear hungry and energetic - no lethargy or unusual/concerning behavior.

About 3 months ago, I upgraded my tank from a 30 gal to 75 gal., cycled first to establish a good ecosystem and then transferred the fish. It was around this time that I noticed the little guy had a red streak in his dorsal fin, which I thought might be injury either from the transfer process or his larger tank mate (who is and has pretty much always been a big bully around feeding time - in fact even though they are approximately the same age, the little guy is 1/3-1/5 the size of the big one.)

Fast forward to the past few days, and the little one now is having a negative buoyancy issue - mostly lethargic, sitting on the bottom and tilting to his left side. I've noticed a few small red spots on his body - I'm assuming they are related to the red streak in his dorsal fin.

A few notes on my set up - it's a 75 gal, with a Fluval FX4 canister filter, UV filter, and bubbler. Water parameters are (and have consistently been) 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrite, 5-40ppm Nitrate, pH 7.8. I primarily feed them Repashy, sometimes greens, peas, and bug bites. For a long period of time I fed them mostly Omega One pellets, but switched when the little guy started having the positive buoyancy issues.

I've added some API stress coat and started a round of API General Cure treatment in case it's related to some kind of infection, and I'm fasting the little guy. I'm not sure what else to try.

I have no doubt he's stressed - I thought moving them to a 75 gal would help alleviate some of the bullying behavior around feeding time, but if anything it's only gotten worse. So I'm sure that could be a contributing factor.

Is there something I might be missing? Anything else I might consider trying?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts/advice. Please let me know if I can provide any additional information that might be helpful in figuring this out.

Thanks so much!

 

[Andy Sager]

Is there only the 2 goldfish in the tank?
The red streak or red dots are usually a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. The General Cure is more for parasites not bacterial so the wrong medication for this.

The foods you were feeding may have something to do with the recurring issues. Goldfish really need a specialized diet and there are many brands that have dedicated goldfish foods so you should switch to one of them.

As for the tank, is it clean? Goldfish can be very dirty so are you cleaning the substrate on a regular basis? How often do you do water changes? Is this a standard 75 Gal ( 48" L x 18" W x 20" H ) or some other configuration? Are there any live plants in the tank?
let's start there.

 

[Goldiemomma]

Is there only the 2 goldfish in the tank?
The red streak or red dots are usually a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. The General Cure is more for parasites not bacterial so the wrong medication for this.

The foods you were feeding may have something to do with the recurring issues. Goldfish really need a specialized diet and there are many brands that have dedicated goldfish foods so you should switch to one of them.

As for the tank, is it clean? Goldfish can be very dirty so are you cleaning the substrate on a regular basis? How often do you do water changes? Is this a standard 75 Gal ( 48" L x 18" W x 20" H ) or some other configuration? Are there any live plants in the tank?
let's start there.

Hi Andy -

Thanks so much for your response. There are two goldfish and a very small pleco in the tank, as well as a few Anubis and a cluster of Java ferns.

I do 1/3 water changes typically every 1-2 weeks. I always vacuum the substrate when I do a water change.

General Cure has metronidazole and praziquantel - an antibiotic and antiparasitic respectively. What do you think I should be using instead and why would the metronidazole not help with a bacterial infection?

I am wondering whether I should move the little guy to a separate container to treat and recover or if that's just going to stress him out even more. I still have the 30-gallon they were in, but it's not been set up for many months.

At this point, things are going downhill. He's perked up a few times thinking he's getting food and looks like he's doing some fancy acrobatics trying to swim. Mostly he's just lying on his side at the bottom of the tank now.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi Andy -

Thanks so much for your response. There are two goldfish and a very small pleco in the tank, as well as a few Anubis and a cluster of Java ferns.

I do 1/3 water changes typically every 1-2 weeks. I always vacuum the substrate when I do a water change.

General Cure has metronidazole and praziquantel - an antibiotic and antiparasitic respectively. What do you think I should be using instead and why would the metronidazole not help with a bacterial infection?

I am wondering whether I should move the little guy to a separate container to treat and recover or if that's just going to stress him out even more. I still have the 30-gallon they were in, but it's not been set up for many months.

At this point, things are going downhill. He's perked up a few times thinking he's getting food and looks like he's doing some fancy acrobatics trying to swim. Mostly he's just lying on his side at the bottom of the tank now.

While you are correct that General Cure is an antibiotic and antiparasitic, the metronadazole is not skin absorbed so the only way it gets inside is when administered in the food. Not all antibiotics work in the same manner. Since your fish's issues are internal, with your Ph, a better med would have been Kanamycin ( found in Seachem's Kanaplex.) If your Ph were 7.0-7.2, mixing Kanamycin and Nitrfuacin Green would be a good combination. ( Sadly, above 7.2, Nitrofuracin doesn't really work. Below 7.2 and the Kanamycin won't work too well. )
To treat with Kanamycin, the fish would need to be in a separate "hospital "tank as the med will effect the nitrifying bacteria in the filter. Temp of the water should be 77-78 degrees. Unfortunately, without being able to really see how bad the fish is, it's hard to say whether it's too late for anything to work but it sounds like it's best chance is not in the tank it's in now.

As for the water changes, it would depend on how large these fish are. If they of good size, the water changes should be weekly. If the substrate is really dirty when you vacuum, it should be done weekly as well. You list the nitrates as 5-40 ppm. That's a large swing. How fast does it go from 5 to 40?

As for diet, Goldfish have a different digestive tract than tropical fish do and would do better with a high vegetable low protein diet and fed smaller portions throughout the day than larger feedings less frequently. I would switch to a dedicated goldfish diet and discontinue the bug bites. The goldfish foods usually have all the protein goldfish need.

If you can post a pic or 1 minute video of the fish in it's current condition, there may be more that can be done.

To set up a hospital tank, all you would need is the tank, an air stone ( no filter) and a submersible heater that can be adjusted to the 77-78 degrees. I also suggest measuring out the gallons of water( since tanks do not hold the exact water amount they are described at) and if using the 30 gal, see if 10 gallons of actual water is enough for the fish to swim in or else do 20 gallons. Most meds are measured per 10 gallons of actual water so you don't want to guess and under medicate or over medicate.

 

[Goldiemomma]

Hi Andy!

Thanks again for your advice. He had a precipitous decline the day before yesterday. I set up my 30 gal as a hospital tank, and have about 10 gallons of water in it (half from the existing tank, and half freshly treated), dosed with KanaPlex in water per the manufacturer's directions. I also mixed some in with Repashy, and managed to get him to eat some twice.

Yesterday he looked like he was at death's door, but I've seen more activity today. He's mostly still lying on his side, but occasionally gets up and tries to swim (sideways and spiraling). He has, at times, looked like he was trying to swim to the surface ( made me think, or wish, that he's trying to inflate his swim bladder).

Today I did a 50% water change (dosed with KanaPlex). I'm still also using General Cure - figured it wasn't going to hurt. I was running a rigged filter yesterday (carbon removed), but I thought maybe it was causing too much of a current for the little guy.

I do actually have a vet appointment, but it's not until Wednesday.

Mostly just wanted to provide an update and thank you for your help, but if you have any additional advice or questions please let me know.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi Andy!

Thanks again for your advice. He had a precipitous decline the day before yesterday. I set up my 30 gal as a hospital tank, and have about 10 gallons of water in it (half from the existing tank, and half freshly treated), dosed with KanaPlex in water per the manufacturer's directions. I also mixed some in with Repashy, and managed to get him to eat some twice.

Yesterday he looked like he was at death's door, but I've seen more activity today. He's mostly still lying on his side, but occasionally gets up and tries to swim (sideways and spiraling). He has, at times, looked like he was trying to swim to the surface ( made me think, or wish, that he's trying to inflate his swim bladder).

Today I did a 50% water change (dosed with KanaPlex). I'm still also using General Cure - figured it wasn't going to hurt. I was running a rigged filter yesterday (carbon removed), but I thought maybe it was causing too much of a current for the little guy.

I do actually have a vet appointment, but it's not until Wednesday.

Mostly just wanted to provide an update and thank you for your help, but if you have any additional advice or questions please let me know.

It's encouraging that he's trying to eat but be careful not to let the tank get dirty from uneaten foods.

I'd discontinue the general cure as too much medication can actually hurt the progress. This is unlikely a parasitic situation and the Metronidazole is doing nothing. The kanaplex is about all you can do at this point.

Keep us posted