$$$

[Ziggy953]

I think that you are going to find the confusion will only get worse the deeper you go into this hobby. My suggestion for you is to STOP now and do A LOT MORE research! Remeber that you are dealing with live animals here, and expensive ones at that. If you don't want to listen to these guys (experts IMO) then go to http://saltaquarium.about.com/c/ec/1.htm this link is saltwater aquariums 101. You need to read it! If you had a 75g when you were growing up you should know a lot of this. My guess is someone else took care of it for you and you looked at the stuff in it. A 10g tank = disaster if you don't know what you are doing. Save your money and do more research! This hobby will be here patiently waiting for you as will those of us willing to give advice (mostly from our own trials and errors)!

 

[buc09]

...okk i shall read that...

question thow i dont wanna sound ignorant or anything but.. my brothers future wife ass a small 10 gallon tank.. all she has in it is LR LS 2 perculas and 2 diferent corals... she does not have a heater a skimmer all she has is a regular filter ... ooo and she also has a couple shrimp**.. i do not see why i need so much stuff if she has been running her nano for about 2 years now? and after speeking to her yesterday about it she told me she had never had any problem with and does about a 10% water change every 2 weeks? can u guys please explain to me why she doesnt need all this equipment that you guys are telling me about

 

[MyCatsDrool]

Dude, do what you want. You don't wanna listen to people with a combined total of hundreds of years of experience in this.

I highly doubt she has just a regular filter and no heater unless she is running some really hot lights (MH) or lives in the tropics and never uses air conditioning, and a modified AC with just LR rubble. No powerhead...no water movement. Fluctuating temperature.

We are telling you you need this stuff to try to save the lives of the ANIMALS, PETS you are about to get without any knowledge.

Do more research. Especially about nano tanks since you are determined not to listen to reason.

Take some pics of her tank. I'd love to see it. I wanna see if she is really not using a heater and just a regular filter and has no algae issues. I'd also like to see the lights she is using, and how her tank looks in general. I'm very curious.

 

[buc09]

I'm not trying to go agaisnt anything any of you are saying? I'm actually just curious about it.. If I did not care I wouldn't of cared to post and asked questions I'm askin or have waited this long to buy the equipment....and I'm sorry that I want a nano tank even if its what u guys don't want I'm gunna get it, its really rhe only space I have so stop being agaisnt my choice and rather explain to me more rather than tellin me I'm all rong. And yes she does have her10 gallon and to be exact its been running on a 12.99 filter which she cleans every week and not a single problem with it..

 

[Ziggy953]

Well there is part of it.....She cleans it every week! The amount of maintenance that a small tank requires is far greater then that of a larger tank. If you have limited space and limited time and $$$$resources then I recommend dropping the SW and going with a FW.

 

[buc09]

But why must you guys influence my choice. I will get the 10gal sw tank and add the equipment you guys suggest. Please stop telling me nnot to get it and do something else. I have all the time in the world I never said I did not say anything about not having time?

 

[Lance M.]

I suggest you run lights during the cycle so that any photosynthetic life on the lr will live. Probably a short 8 hour period would be fine.

Get a heater. Small tanks can have large temperature swings over a day that can kill any fish. If your brother's future wife doesn't have a heater and the tank is fine then the tank probably happens to be located near a warm place in the house.

I have a ten gallon nano and do 30% pwc's every week. You don't need a skimmer on a ten gallon as long as you keep up with the maintenance.

I suggest you do a lot more research before you start this. You are going to have a lot of problems if you don't. And you should get a bigger tank before you do this, like everyone who has many years of experience has been trying to tell you.

Your going into the nano reef part of this hobby with, IMO, no experience with fish keeping.

Nano-reef tanks are THE hardest tanks to keep and maintain over long periods of time. And from the looks like it yours may last a month before everything dies.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

But why must you guys influence my choice. I will get the 10gal sw tank and add the equipment you guys suggest. Please stop telling me nnot to get it and do something else. I have all the time in the world I never said I did not say anything about not having time?

We must influence your choice because we don't want you to fail, and we don't want to see innocent animals die in the hands of someone who refuses to research for their care, refuses to listen, and refuses to learn. We don't want you to kill innocent animals in a way that is very painful for them.

If you have all the time in the world, THEN save your money longer and buy a larger tank, quality equipment and wait until you have everything situated. Then buy quality live rock and sand and wait some more, start reading about good sw husbandry, and let your tank cycle...fullly equipped.


even if you refuse to get a larger tank THEN save your money longer because you need more than a bill twenty to even set up a 10 gallon. And you need to do a ton of research, because those of us with nano tanks are usually setting up our 3rd or 4th tank, not our first, and have experinced the ups and downs of SW and know how to fix what is wrong. Even i don't know everything, i ask questions here all the time, But i listen to the answers, and take their advice. I even removed a nuisence anemone after i didn't want to hear i had to because i had grown quite attached to it. Because the people overwhelmingly told me i needed to.

Then wait some more
Then test your water and see if it is ready yet, no ammonia, no nitrite, low low low nitrates, stable pH, good Alk, good calcium
Then do some more reading
Then test your water and see if it is ready yet, no ammonia, no nitrite, low low low nitrates, stable pH, good Alk, good calcium
Then do a water change, with no livestock
Then do some research
Then test your water and see if it is ready yet, no ammonia, no nitrite, low low low nitrates, stable pH, good Alk, good calcium
Then do a water change, with no livestock
Then wait
Then test your water and see if it is ready yet, no ammonia, no nitrite, low low low nitrates, stable pH, good Alk, good calcium
Then do a water change, with no livestock

Then buy fish and corals. If everything is perfect.

This is not a cheap hobby or one to rush. You HAVE to be knowledgeable and patient.

Let me ask you this:

What is the main nuisence anemone you WILL face?
What are 4 types of algae you will most likely face?
One isn't really an algae, what is it and what is it really if not an algae?
What causes algae?
What metal is deadly to inverts in SW?
Name 3 soft corals genus
What does LPS mean? Give 3 examples of LPS.
What does SPS mean? Name the two main SPS genus.
What kind of clownfish is nemo? What is his preferred amenome type?
Can you keep anemones in a reef? Why or why not?
What is SG? What is the preffered SG for FOWLR? For Reef?
Name 2 brands of Artificial salt.
What are the test kits you NEED to have?
What should the pH be in a reef tank? in a FOWLR tank?
What is FOWLR?
What is Fallow?
What are the three big SW fish diseases we fight most often? Which primarily affects clownfish?
WHat is the difference between SW ich and FW ich? How do you treat SW ich?
What is Macro algae? Is it good or bad? Name 3 types commonly found in a SW tank.
What is PC? MH? VHO? NO? what is best for a 10 gallon tank?
What is the optimal temp in your tank for your fish and corals?
What is a powerhead? What is it's purpose in a marine setup?
What is a dead zone? What is it's purpose in a reef setup?
What is coralline? What makes it grow?
Name 3 foods to use in a SW tank.
Name 2 people in the Reef world who are to be looked to as experts. One wrote a book that we all count on, like the reef bible. What is it's name? do you own it?
What is the Berlin method? What is DSB method?

No cheating. Answer as many as you can. I'd say when you can answer them without googling, you are on your way to a 30-40 gallon tank.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

And i may be harsh, but i am asking questions 95% of the people on this board can answer in their sleep because they have done their research.

I am trying to tough love you. Tell you the truth, get you to understand that with $120 and 10 gallons, for your first tank, you will kill valuable and sensitive ANIMALS. these aren't decorations. THey aren't neato things to look at. They have LIVES, personalities, and live and breath. I have close to 100 fish in total, FW and SW and i can tell them all apart. I gave them all names, I write stories about their activites. My corals have names. My plants in my FW planted tank are tended to daily. My SW tank gets a minimum of 1 water change per week. Most week it gets 2 or more. I run to my LFS at least 2 x per week. I know the employees by name.

My fish are PETS. they are as important to keep alive and comfortable as my cats. They have feelings, and they hurt when they are poisoned by ammonia or nitrite, or my carelessness.
They die. And it is sad. And we spend our time and money dumping sludge on reefs in nature, killing the corals and inverts and fish there....and we are paying for it in the way of global warming.

In my home, i pay for it in sadness when a fish i let eat from my hands and watch with delight dies.

Anywhere you go and ask for advice, whether here, 3reef, reefcentral, marinedepot, tfm, anywhere, will tell you the same thing. they will get as upset as we are, they will mock you. Some more than others. I dare you to go to fantasyreef or reefcentral and try to tell them that they don't know what they are talking about because your future sister in law's tank, or not to tell you not to do what you are planning because we are just mean. Reef keepers, and FOWLR keepers, even most FW keepers can answer most of those questions above. We are being hard on you because we care about your ANIMALS. we want you to succeed in making them happy and comfortable.

Hell, some days I have guilt for even keeping fish as I worry they might be confined, bored in their glass boxes. the least i can do is make sure they are comfortable, entertained, well fed, disease free, algae free, clean and healthy. So i read. and research. and started at the beginning, not the end of the challenge

A 10 gallong SW tank is the end of the challenge. the beginning is a 40 gal FW tank without plants. and that isn't even easy or doable on $120.

 

[Ziggy953]

AMEN! Well said! I think you have just said exactly what all of use have been thinking and feeling. I like you and most others have invested a lot of our time and lives, not to mention that of our families time and lives into this hobby and we are passionate about this! My hat is off to you! Take a bow!

 

[buc09]

Haha... waitt...you really expect me to answer the 1000 questions you put there... and I can't believe you really typed all of that .. Don't worry I no my stuff and I will continue to read up on my articless. And thank you for the testing and cycling part...as I read I will cycle with my lr and lights... I will put the heater as well.. (Can the heater wait or should I put that in now as well?) I will test my water weekly with a weekly water change..
Now one thing in which I am undecided about is filter skimmer or n e thing else I've gotten 20 diferent suggestions..(also plz don't rag on me because the fact that I'm getn a 10g plz help) Money is not an issue anymoreee... please give me a certain brand so I can read about that 1 plz and thank you

 

[melosu58]

Even though I do agree with ya`ll and I always suggest at least a 55 We still can not make up their mind for them. If he wants to do a 10 gallon then we have to respect his wishes. All we can do is express our experiences and opinions. The rest is up to the OP. I have not posted because you have covered my sentiments exactly. That being said a 10 gallon nano tank can be done but it`s going to be hard but like I said it can be done. There are many examples on the nano reef forum. I would suggest the OP check out that forum on this site.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

like talking to a brick wall. i'm out. good luck. please do some reading so you don't kill some animals in a painful way.

 

[Lance M.]

MyCatsDrool- Wow! How long did it take to type all that? lol. Great post.

Umm If you have all the time to take care of it (you don't have a job?) then don't get a skimmer at all. Just do two 15-20% pwc's a week, like one on wednesday and one on saturday and you will have to check the water params about every other day at least three times a week for the next 3-4 weeks especially through the cycle and when you start to add one or two fish. Then you can check it twice a week and make sure to keep up with the pwc's. The most important thing for such a small tank is making sure the water params are stable because it can go south pretty quickly if you don't keep up with it.

BTW I've spent $300-$350 on my ten gallon nano for setup and livestock (and I already had the tank and filters). And I've probably put $2k in my 20 gallon nano. That includes setup, livestock, and maintaining it (salt, food, etc.).

 

[lando]

Bottom line...SW tanks are more expensive then you think. All of the "extras" required to maintain a SW add up quick. Heed the advice of the others here. Research, research, research.

But why must you guys influence my choice

Isn't that reason you came here with questions??? The advice you have been given is ment to help you succeed in the world of SW. It sounds like a little "influence" is exactly what you need. As mentioned, a 10gal tank is certainly not the ideal way to start out. However, it can be done, and done well if you go slow, do things right the first time and listen to the good folks here.

waitt...you really expect me to answer the 1000 questions you put there...

Yes...Knowing the answers to those questions will deepen your knowledge on SW tanks and aid in your success.

Don't worry I no my stuff

I am not convinced of that yet...stick around awhile and I am sure you learn a lot.

Now one thing in which I am undecided about is filter skimmer or n e thing else I've gotten 20 diferent suggestions

Your biggest challenge is going to be maintaning stable water parameters. Anything you can do to shift the odds in your favor will be beneficial. I recommend a 2-3 inch LS bed, 20-25lbs of LR as your primary filtration. You can also run HOB filter for mechanical and chemical filtration is you wish. There are several brands out there. As far as the skimmer goes, any tank will benefit from having a skimmer. However, you can get by without them in smaller tanks due to the increased frequency of water changes.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

waitt...you really expect me to answer the 1000 questions you put there...

Yes...Knowing the answers to those questions will deepen your knowledge on SW tanks and aid in your success.

Like i said, 95% of us can answer them, and read and researched enough BEFORE adding water to be able to answer them.

I can answer them all. Without google. Without help. Before I started my first tank. Because i researched and read so ANIMALS wouldn't die or suffer needlessly.

Don't worry I no my stuff

Uh huh. <sarcasm on>You are doing a most excellent job of proving it too!</sarcasm>

And I typed all that because it is how i have been feeling for a long time about the countless people who come here wiht your cavalier attitude, then kill a bunch of reef ANIMALS and fish, then never come back, just to shelf the death tank in a garage somewhere, or come back and lie, saying how great their tank is while honestly having just let a beautiful and peaceful blue hippo tang die because they thought it'd be neato to cram one in a 10 gallon tank they just set up yesterday. Or all the folks who refused to do it right and come back stomping their feet that we didn't help them and now their fish are dying from ich and they treated with copper and now all their inverts are dying too.


That is why i typed it. Because now I can copy and paste it everytime this happens.

Yes, i fully expect you to be able to answer all those questions. 100% of them. Before you even think about putting water in a tank.




Sorry guys, i just couldn't stay away and let it go.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Wow MyCatsDrool... glad I didn't have to take your AquariumExam 101 test before I put water in my tank!

While I'm also thinking starting SW with a 10gallon with tons of stuff crammed into it is a recipe for disaster, I'm really glad I didn't the welcome buc09 received. Granted... folks should know the majority of the answers to those questions, but really - name the genus' of corals? Why would someone need to know that? Seems to me that if you're educated about starting a tank, then you know you've got about 1-2 months after the time you put in live rock until you can even start to think about adding fish, and probably several more months until you add corals. Doesn't that give you plenty of time to learn more? Did you know everything there was to know about SW before YOU added water to your tank?

I guess my point is that this whole hobby is a learning experience. I'm guessing even the experts learn something new once in a while, or look back on something they did a year ago and hit their forehead firmly with the palm of their hand. While asking for advice, and then arguing with that advice is a rather frustrating thing for folks that are truly trying to help, I think expecting people to know everything before they dive in to this hobby is a very unrealistic expectation.

Just my thoughts.

Oh... and buc09 - add my vote to the "save for a bigger tank" crowd. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a 29 or 30 gallon tank. The fluctuations in a 10 gallon would be a constant pain in the butt and you'd probably get frustrated and shelve it after about 6 months. I know I probably would. Not sure how the gal you mentioned does it with hers, but I'm sure there's more to that story than maybe you're getting.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

I think it was when he first said "explain it to me like a baby" then when we did and he rejected everything, telling us we didn't know what we were talking about by saying you need a heater, and getting mad when we said you simply can't start a SW tank from dead scratch on $120, then saying he knows his stuff after asking us to "explain it to him like a baby" is when I started getting irritated.....
Not to mention people who refuse to use any mocodum (sp...Is that even the word?) of grammar or even attempt to spell out words...I have a niece who is 9 that at least spells out "know" rather than "no". but that is just a pet peeve. I don't use perfect grammar or spelling, but i at least try.

Before then, we were trying to be helpful. And still are. But when you tell someone the truth and they refuse to accept it, and are going to do what they want anyway....well, it gets frustrating.


And i am sure you could name frogspawn, hammer, and plate or acro and monti.

 

[Mosaic]

The people here are incredibly patient and helpful. The fact that they are getting so hostile to buc09 in a manner I've rarely seen ought to be a clue to him that he's about to embark on something he's monumentally unprepared for. If you think it's bad now, just wait until you ignore their advice and go ahead anyways, and then come asking for help. They will not be sympathetic.

I've only been in SW for two months. I'll admit I can't answer all those questions off the top of my head, but I am researching all the time. But here's one very critical point: I know when I don't know. Then I come here and ask or research elsewhere before going ahead with anything. My animals' welfare is at stake.

Planted tanks taught me this, buc09: If you're not prepared to do it right, you better be prepared to do it over. It took me ten years to learn to be patient with the hobby, and I'm grateful I learned to do it before I started a SW tank. Because having to do it over, especially with a reef tank, will hurt. Don't let hubris be your downfall. Please consider what we are saying, go slow, RESEARCH, and come to us with intelligent questions, and you will get all the help you need.

 

[FloridaNewbie]

If i can put my 2 cents in! BUC09 i hear you on the small 10gal, i wouldn't go with it, but just like your brothers wife, i have a friend who has 2 small 10gals with LR and a filter, and he has about 3 corals in there with 3 percs and some shrimp. How does he do it ?? i dunno, but he even has a 5gal with 3 damsels!!! But in my opinion his fishes have spent the last 2 years suffering. Even though they are alive, they are not as active as the fish i have in my 29gal. PLUS i think a bigger tank is MUCH MUCH prettier than a small crowded tank!

So if you REALLY want a small tank, which is cool, INVEST the $$ on this
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=10677&N=2004+62760

Leo