Advice after some deaths and a near miss

[gfacer]

Hi All,

Total newbie on the forum. I have been doing some research and getting up to speed.

We have a 10 gallon tank with a fluval U1 filter, a heater (seems to be up to the task), about 1" gravel, plastic plants and 'rock', and some river rock.

We started off wrongly, basically doing a fishless cycle without a source of bacteria or ammonia. Then after a week we added a betta and 3 platties.

We kept that for 2 weeks and then added 3 cardinal tetras, one of which died that day (it looked weak even in the bag). The next week we bought 2 more cardinal and then issues began.

First 2 cardinals died (maybe the most recent - hard to say), then the 3 platies, then we added 3 guppies, which started to die after a week, then the betta. The pattern was listless and or erratic behaviour for about a day then dead overnight. They did not look like they had ammonia red gills.

I have been getting up to speed and now have a master test kit (though no kh) but only since april 14. Before then the LFS tested the water with strips and thought it was OK.

So the past is the past but I just had a near miss last night as the 2 last cardinals were looking similar (one listless, one erratic) maybe with red gills (hard to tell with a cardinal). I tested the water

april 14 (fish OK) and got Ammonia 0, No2 0, No3 5, ph 7.6 or higher (did low range - didn't see high range in the new kit).
April 17 (fish sickly) Amm 0, no2 0, no3 0, ph 7.8 - did 30-40% water change. EDIT - I think I forgot to shake the kit for the no3 - so that is likely wrong.
April 18 (fish ok again) Amm 0, no2 0 no3 10ppm ph 7.8

I thought it might be a bacterial infection from the cardinals that died first but since it did not wipe them all out, then maybe not. Then I thought it might be a ph spike but now have read that tap ph is always lower.

So I am looking for a little guidance for how to not get to where I seem to keep returning to (listless, erratic and then fairly rapid decline which a large water change corrects). I know it looks likes ammonia but any other ideas?

Hope that not too much info.

Thanks, G

 

[Coursair]

Hi All,

Total newbie on the forum. I have been doing some research and getting up to speed.

We have a 10 gallon tank with a fluval U1 filter, a heater (seems to be up to the task), about 1" gravel, plastic plants and 'rock', and some river rock.

We started off wrongly, basically doing a fishless cycle without a source of bacteria or ammonia. Then after a week we added a betta and 3 platties.

We kept that for 2 weeks and then added 3 cardinal tetras, one of which died that day (it looked weak even in the bag). The next week we bought 2 more cardinal and then issues began.

First 2 cardinals died (maybe the most recent - hard to say), then the 3 platies, then we added 3 guppies, which started to die after a week, then the betta. The pattern was listless and or erratic behaviour for about a day then dead overnight. They did not look like they had ammonia red gills.

I have been getting up to speed and now have a master test kit (though no kh) but only since april 14. Before then the LFS tested the water with strips and thought it was OK.

So the past is the past but I just had a near miss last night as the 2 last cardinals were looking similar (one listless, one erratic) maybe with red gills (hard to tell with a cardinal). I tested the water

april 14 (fish OK) and got Ammonia 0, No2 0, No3 5, ph 7.6 or higher (did low range - didn't see high range in the new kit).
April 17 (fish sickly) Amm 0, no2 0, no3 0, ph 7.8 - did 30-40% water change. EDIT - I think I forgot to shake the kit for the no3 - so that is likely wrong.
April 18 (fish ok again) Amm 0, no2 0 no3 10ppm ph 7.8

I thought it might be a bacterial infection from the cardinals that died first but since it did not wipe them all out, then maybe not. Then I thought it might be a ph spike but now have read that tap ph is always lower.

So I am looking for a little guidance for how to not get to where I seem to keep returning to (listless, erratic and then fairly rapid decline which a large water change corrects). I know it looks likes ammonia but any other ideas?

Hope that not too much info.

Thanks, G

Cardinals like warmer water, 78-84f, lots of live plants and low PH
Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi) - Seriously Fish

They like heavily planted tanks (Live plants) with dark substrate and floating plants. They tend to stress out in bare tanks. A 10g is too small for a decent school of these fish, they get to 2". They should be in a group of at least 10 IMHO. More is better. A 20 Long is the smallest I'd try.

Stop buying fish. Take a breath.
What is your current stock list? Return any Cardinals you have left, they won't live AFAIK.

Read up on Cycling a tank. This site has stickies on Fish IN Cycling.

There are fish that can live happily in a 10g.
But many of the small fish like lots of live plants to feel safe and they also keep the water more stable. IF you want to learn about this, there is a subforum on this site with some good info. on Planted Tanks.

 

[gfacer]

Well from what I've read you try not to mess with the ph so I haven't. My temp was at 78 deg, the tank is not planted with real plants but has a reasonable amount of plastic (I think keeping a 10 with plant stable would be a little difficult). I am reading up on cycling but from the readings I am taking it looks like the tank has cycled now (its been about 2.5 months with fish in total). I know that the cardinals need a school but and I understand the larger tank advantages better now but want to get this one right as I would then use it as a quarantine tank IF I go bigger.

I'm a bit slow on this as this was a project my wife and kids thought up and now I am maintaining. I'm enjoying it but I'd have done more research it it was my project. So right now I am in a holding pattern for a few weeks to make sure it was not an illness before I introduce anything (to either this or a larger used tank)

So I infer that you think it is a cycling issue (and the early deaths might have been as I did not have the proper testing kit) but since the ammonia has been reading 0 with nitrite 0 and nitrates above 0 (when I do the test properly) it looks cycled now and the tank should not be over burdened with just 2 cardinal so I am lost as to what affected them.

Oh and I should note that the betta was really good with everyone (even the guppies which my wife bought without talking to me and had fairly fancy tails). A little territorial for the first 2 days and then a peaceful lightly interactive fish that sort of hung out with the platies (or vice versa).

Thanks for the advice.

G

ps any personal thoughts on stocking at 10 gallon if we keep that set up?

 

[Coursair]

Well from what I've read you try not to mess with the ph so I haven't. My temp was at 78 deg, the tank is not planted with real plants but has a reasonable amount of plastic (I think keeping a 10 with plant stable would be a little difficult). I am reading up on cycling but from the readings I am taking it looks like the tank has cycled now (its been about 2.5 months with fish in total). I know that the cardinals need a school but and I understand the larger tank advantages better now but want to get this one right as I would then use it as a quarantine tank IF I go bigger.

I'm a bit slow on this as this was a project my wife and kids thought up and now I am maintaining. I'm enjoying it but I'd have done more research it it was my project. So right now I am in a holding pattern for a few weeks to make sure it was not an illness before I introduce anything (to either this or a larger used tank)

So I infer that you think it is a cycling issue (and the early deaths might have been as I did not have the proper testing kit) but since the ammonia has been reading 0 with nitrite 0 and nitrates above 0 (when I do the test properly) it looks cycled now and the tank should not be over burdened with just 2 cardinal so I am lost as to what affected them.

Oh and I should note that the betta was really good with everyone (even the guppies which my wife bought without talking to me and had fairly fancy tails). A little territorial for the first 2 days and then a peaceful lightly interactive fish that sort of hung out with the platies (or vice versa).

Thanks for the advice.

G

ps any personal thoughts on stocking at 10 gallon if we keep that set up?

I like my Celestial Pearl Danios.
Chili Rasboras are another choice.
Or my first choice is a Red Cherry Shrimp (RCS) tank.
I'm a huge fan of plants. I started with a Petsmart Aqueon 10g kit on sale.
I swapped incandescent for mini CFLs
I used Tahitian Moon Sand
I added root tabs every 4 months
I add liquid Ferts 1x weekly
NO CO2
This is that tank.

Currently less Shrimp, more Fish

My tank is heavily planted and heavily stocked. I would have fewer fish if I was starting out.

My 10g has been running a year now. I've had tanks since I was a kid, so having true planted tanks is the new part. This tank was my first with plants being a major part of the tank. They keep my tank more stable.

Cardinals are sensitive. You need to really look before you buy. Ours ate frozen food. Often wouldn't eat flakes at first.

I do weekly PWCs on all my tanks. I have a few small tanks. It is easier to keep bigger tanks stable. If you ever want to go planted 20g Long or 40g Breeder size tanks are great for plants and easy to get into if needed.

I'm a lazy low tech low light low budget planted tank owner.

 

[gfacer]

I have done weekly water changes (usually fairly high like 30-40% with gravel vacuum). I did rinse the filter once incorrectly (ie with tap water) which certainly would have been a contributing factor. I made sure not do to vacuum the gravel that week so that I wasn't wiping out all the bacteria.

I'm thinking that the filter cleaning, dirty gravel and a lower water change that week (trying to keep the bacteria in to restart the filter) likely set the issues in motion as the issues did all happen after that (but maybe 1.5 - 2 weeks?). Looking back at this, knowing more, I read this as "I wiped out most of the bio filter, left the fish in dirty water with decomposing food on the bottom for a week".

Anyhow I'll keep testing, keep up the maintenance and the reading and see how it goes for a few weeks and then maybe upgrade or add something small. G