Aggravated, please help

[Rozmere]

I've been without aquariums/fish for a few years now since an illness made me bed-bound for a while. Recently I decided to get another aquarium to fill the hole in my life (I've had aquariums since I was a baby and I'm now 40).

Anyway, since I've always had aquariums I've never needed do a fishless cycle because I could always borrow a filter/substrate/etc. from other tanks to start a new one or do a total clean start on a tank. But now I'm trying to do a fishless cycle.

First, I checked around online and got various very very vague or very very complicated instructions for fishless cycling a 20 gal freshwater tank. Eventually I found a few forum posts that mentioned this online calculator to calculate the ammonia to add and a few experienced fishkeepers that stated that they didn't bother gradually adding the ammonia but just start with 4-5 ppm and wait till the bacteria start up to do any more.

Ok, so I used the calculator and came up with a tiny bit over 1/2 of a teaspoon of ammonia (~3.19 ml) I hunted all over town and finally found a bottle of ammonia that didn't contain anything except ammonium hydroxide, i measured out 1/2 teaspoon and dumped it in.

My water before the ammonia was ammonia=.5-1.0 Ph=6.9 Nitrites=.3 or less. Afterthe ammonia the test looked like it was around 6.0 ppm or higher? I looked at it puzzled for a minute then shruged and decided to leave it alone. Every day for a week it stayed at this level and the nitrites remained at 0. Maybe I am impatient but I was worried that maybe I somehow added too much ammonia and the bacteria were actually dying before they could even start, so I did a 50% water change, tested again and it still "looks like" 6.0 or higher. I waited a few days and the tests were the same so I did another 50% water change.....the ammonia looks like it might be a little bit lower but the nitrites haven't changed.

So what am I doing wrong? Anything? Should I be worried that I might have "too much" ammonia in there? Please help. Also anyone know of any live bacteria substrate that you can buy relatively cheaply that actually works?

-John

 

[PockX]

It's only been a week? It might take around 2 weeks to stabilize.. You could also add a raw shrimp and cut back on your ammonia you're adding then. Glad you got back into the hobby!

 

[Fishanatic]

A lot of things that could of happened. You might need a new testing kit. Maybe you should try dosing less ammonia and check, also, dosing too much can overwhelm the bacteria, so a possible bacterial bloom might be seen. I suggest keeping the water changes up and monitoring it as well as possible.

 

[Rozmere]

Thanks for the replies. I think it could also have something to do with my lighting conditions in this room. If I hold the test tube against the white area of the color code card it's a darker color then if I hold it away from the card. In any case I'm going to just wait a while and see what happens, if it turns out I need a new test kit I'll try to get one on payday.

 

[jlk]

It sounds like your on the right track! Just remember when you go to dose ammonia, you need to take the ammonia in your tap into consideration. So, using the calculator the 'desired ppm' needs to adjusted. To reach a desired level of 4ppm, subtract the 1ppm from your tap. Use instead 3ppm as your 'desired ppm'.

Are you properly conditioning your water? With ammonia in your tap, you most likely have chloramine as a disinfectant. Quite a few water conditioners do not handle chloramine or only can detox low levels of it.

Another consideration is your ph. It is on the lower side for cycling but not so low that it will prevent a cycle from progressing. You will need to keep a very close watch on this. Check it daily. If you notice it dropping, this may need to be further addressed.

Are you in the US or another country? In the US, you have the option to purchase cycled media if this is something you want to consider. Beyond the above mentioned, just have some patience! It can take 2-4weeks to see initial ammonia drops when cycling from scratch. I know it may seem a bit overwhelming at the moment but once the basics are in order, it's just a matter of sitting and waiting for mother nature to do her part.

 

[Rozmere]

Are you in the US or another country? In the US, you have the option to purchase cycled media if this is something you want to consider. Beyond the above mentioned, just have some patience! It can take 2-4weeks to see initial ammonia drops when cycling from scratch. I know it may seem a bit overwhelming at the moment but once the basics are in order, it's just a matter of sitting and waiting for mother nature to do her part.

Do you have any actual experience with these purchasable cycled materials? I've been looking around the net and everywhere I look people say that there isn't a "cycle in a bottle or bag" that really does anything. If you or anyone else know's of one that you have ACTUAL first hand experience of it working please let me know. My ammonia and nitrite readings are still not changing.

BTW, I test my treated water before I put it in the tank and I get little to no ammonia and the PH is 7.0 right out of the tap and since this is a good PH for all the fish I plan on having I decided it was best if I didn't mess with the PH.

 

[Fishanatic]

Do you have any actual experience with these purchasable cycled materials? I've been looking around the net and everywhere I look people say that there isn't a "cycle in a bottle or bag" that really does anything. If you or anyone else know's of one that you have ACTUAL first hand experience of it working please let me know. My ammonia and nitrite readings are still not changing.

BTW, I test my treated water before I put it in the tank and I get little to no ammonia and the PH is 7.0 right out of the tap and since this is a good PH for all the fish I plan on having I decided it was best if I didn't mess with the PH.

I personally recommend Tetra SafeStart. Great product, as well as great reviews and a lot of success stories about it. It's worth a shot, and doesn't cost that much. Just a bit more then you're average water conditioner.

 

[Alyxx]

Do you have any actual experience with these purchasable cycled materials? I've been looking around the net and everywhere I look people say that there isn't a "cycle in a bottle or bag" that really does anything. If you or anyone else know's of one that you have ACTUAL first hand experience of it working please let me know. My ammonia and nitrite readings are still not changing.

BTW, I test my treated water before I put it in the tank and I get little to no ammonia and the PH is 7.0 right out of the tap and since this is a good PH for all the fish I plan on having I decided it was best if I didn't mess with the PH.

You can order a seeded sponge filter from angelsplus online. If I remember correctly they are pretty cheap and I've seen lots of members here use them with lots of success.

 

[Rozmere]

Hey Alyxx, this is off topic but it that a drawing of Cthulhu in your avatar? LOL X) I use to have an apple snail I called Cthulhu.

Ok, I'll look into Tetra SafeStart and also into the seeded sponge filter, if anyone else has any suggestions I'd love to hear them. Thanks guys

-John

 

[librarygirl]

Do you have any actual experience with these purchasable cycled materials? I've been looking around the net and everywhere I look people say that there isn't a "cycle in a bottle or bag" that really does anything. If you or anyone else know's of one that you have ACTUAL first hand experience of it working please let me know. My ammonia and nitrite readings are still not changing.

BTW, I test my treated water before I put it in the tank and I get little to no ammonia and the PH is 7.0 right out of the tap and since this is a good PH for all the fish I plan on having I decided it was best if I didn't mess with the PH.

I've used a purchased seeded filter from AngelsPlus, it did help with my cycle. Many others on here have used them too. It isn't 100% guaranteed but it's cheap enough to try it. Just make sure you get one that says "active" next to it otherwise you're just buying a plain filter. What test kit are you using? You could try a 50% water change to get ammonia down some just in case it's too high (don't forget dechlorinator). WIth that said, it can take 1-2 weeks on average to see the initial ammonia drop. If you haven't seen it yet, this is one of the better fishless cycling guides: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html

 

[Rozmere]

Just an update, I purchased one of the seeded filters from AngelsPlus and I think it's working because today (two days after I put it in) I'm seeing what looks like a bacteria bloom starting. Just as a side note the filter is very well made, attractive and seems to do a good job as a filter, and it was only a little over $7, a very good buy for anyone if you want my opinion!

My API tests have not been any different yet but after contacting seachem about some in-tank alerts I purchased from Pet Mountain I learned that there was a difference between the "total ammonia" that the API tests check for and "free ammonia" which the SeaChem alerts check for. I don't know why I never questioned what NH3 and NH4 were before (probably because I'm not a chemist) but I should have known this anyway. So perhaps my free ammonia has been low this entire time, it's just my total ammonia that is high. Does this sound typical?

I also bought two adorable little "Golden Apple" snails (actually mystery apple snails) from Angels Plus but I'll have a new post about them.

 

[lovemyguppies]

My API tests have not been any different yet but after contacting seachem about some in-tank alerts I purchased from Pet Mountain I learned that there was a difference between the "total ammonia" that the API tests check for and "free ammonia" which the SeaChem alerts check for. I don't know why I never questioned what NH3 and NH4 were before (probably because I'm not a chemist) but I should have known this anyway. So perhaps my free ammonia has been low this entire time, it's just my total ammonia that is high. Does this sound typical?

NH3 is the free ammonia and is very harmful to the fish. NH4 is ammonium and isn't toxic to the fish, although dependent on pH it can be converted it NH3 and then be harmful to your fish. My tap water has about 2ppm ammonium but no ammonia so for me when i learned about cycling the seachem ammonia alert was a life saver since no matter how many water changes i did the API test would still read at least 2ppm ammonia. Once the tank was cycled though there weren't any more issues with the NH3/NH4 readings.

 

[Rozmere]

NH3 is the free ammonia and is very harmful to the fish. NH4 is ammonium and isn't toxic to the fish, although dependent on pH it can be converted it NH3 and then be harmful to your fish. My tap water has about 2ppm ammonium but no ammonia so for me when i learned about cycling the seachem ammonia alert was a life saver since no matter how many water changes i did the API test would still read at least 2ppm ammonia. Once the tank was cycled though there weren't any more issues with the NH3/NH4 readings.

YES! That is what I'm getting too, no matter how many water changes i do I have at least 2ppm total ammonia on my API test but my SeaChem free ammonia alert is never higher then 0.05 ppm. So I'm happy to hear from someone with the same situation. However, when I test my tap water (after treating it but before putting in my aquarium) my API test reads 0 ppm. Anyway, all the fish seem happy and no signs of stress so I'm just hoping that it finally cycles GRRR! I'm getting impatient because other then some slightly cloudy water (which I'm only assuming is the start of a bacteria bloom) the tests have not changed.

 

[lovemyguppies]

The lower your ph is the less free ammonia there is compared to ammonium. I think if your ph is under 7 it's almost all ammonium, but if the ammonia alert isn't yellow i would definitely do like a 50% pwc, but it does take several hours for it to return to yellow.

 

[Rozmere]

The lower your ph is the less free ammonia there is compared to ammonium. I think if your ph is under 7 it's almost all ammonium, but if the ammonia alert isn't yellow i would definitely do like a 50% pwc, but it does take several hours for it to return to yellow.

Well my API test says that my pH stays around 7.0 but unfortunately I have a little salt in my aquarium and so my pH alert shows over 8.2, I contacted SeaChem and they told me how to test that it wasn't defective, the alert works fine but since I have a little salt in there (1 rounded TBSP per 5 gallons) they said that would give me a faulse reading on the alert. I would try to lower my pH a little but the bottles of pH up and pH down that I have are very old and I'm not sure if the chemicals expire so I don't want to risk it, especially with two golden apple mystery snails in my tank. I won't have enough money for another order from Pet Mountain for a while and one of my local pet shops does not have pH up/down nor do they seem to be very interested in doing anything but making money, the other pet shop has pH up/down but the bottles look as old as the ones I have. So I've been crossing my fingers that my pH will stay reasonable level on it's own.

 

[lovemyguppies]

You shouldn't try to mess with you're ph anyways, a stable ph is the most important thing.

 

[Rozmere]

I completely agree

 

[Tank Girl]

Do you have any actual experience with these purchasable cycled materials? I've been looking around the net and everywhere I look people say that there isn't a "cycle in a bottle or bag" that really does anything. If you or anyone else know's of one that you have ACTUAL first hand experience of it working please let me know. My ammonia and nitrite readings are still not changing.

If you want a cycling product that works, use Dr. Tim's. I've used it myself and it is a stellar product. There's some really good info on his site, too. You can find it here: www.drtimsaquatics.com

 

[Thomas.w]

I have had good luck with API's start zyme my wife was having trouble with our cycle while I was on the road at work, had her purchase some and within a day it dropped the levels of ammonia and nitrite in my stupidly overstocked 90g. and started seeing nitrates come up. when I returned I bought a new canister filter loaded it with bio media and dosed again to seed the media until I could get another tank up to relieve the massive bio load on my tank that the LFS said wasn't the case and wanted to sell me more fish. I have since planted my tank moved a couple fish and have had no issues. The start zyme seemed to work for me quite well. and welcome back to the hobby

 

[Rozmere]

If you want a cycling product that works, use Dr. Tim's. I've used it myself and it is a stellar product. There's some really good info on his site, too. You can find it here: www.drtimsaquatics.com

I've heard Dr. Tim's mentioned on the archived PetFishTalk show several times so I've been very tempted. Meanwhile, yesterday I took a reading to find out that my nitrites had not only started but were suddenly very high. I did a 50% pwc yesterday and I just got home from work and did another and am about to take another test.

I have had good luck with API's start zyme my wife was having trouble with our cycle while I was on the road at work, had her purchase some and within a day it dropped the levels of ammonia and nitrite in my stupidly overstocked 90g. and started seeing nitrates come up. when I returned I bought a new canister filter loaded it with bio media and dosed again to seed the media until I could get another tank up to relieve the massive bio load on my tank that the LFS said wasn't the case and wanted to sell me more fish. I have since planted my tank moved a couple fish and have had no issues. The start zyme seemed to work for me quite well. and welcome back to the hobby

Yeah, I haven't tried (or even heard much about) APIs start zyme but I might try it in the future, the thing I'm worried about is that I hear MANY reports that MOST of the stuff you can get in bottles might "cycle" your tank but they are the wrong type of bacteria to hold a stable cycle and they override the correct type that don't tend to stay alive in bottles for long. *shrugs* I'm not a scientist so I'm not sure who to listen too you know what I mean?