Algae Bloom won't go away.

[femjock]

Hi. Just joined and was hoping someone might have a suggestion.

In November I noticed my tank water started to get cloudy. Over a few days my crystal clear tank turned to a white/yellow/green soup colour.

I read the forums, did water changes, filter changes, UV stabilizer changed twice and after 6weeks I took out all the rocks and washed them with hot water...more of a really intense bath. Just after Christmas it cleared up.

The about two months later it started again and now no matter what I try I'm always in various stages of it coming back. I think it's gone and water "seems" clear but with 5 days the water starts to get cloudy again.

I bought a really expensive filter made of nano beads, as well as a phosphorous filter. I've ordered another green machine UV stabilizer. I use Aquaclear filters, charcoal or the ammonia/charcoal style plus one of the expensive filters I mentioned first. And the bio max. It's a 45gallon tank. I run two filters, a 50 & 20 plus the uv stabilizer. It's a community tank and water levels all seem to test positively when I check.

If you have any advise I'd be eternally grateful. Thanks.

 

[femjock]

Also I have Kissing Gorami, blue gorami, a rainbow shark, a few black skirts, three bottom feeders that look like catfish, two Africa dwarf frogs and a bunch of algae eaters and a couple of misc plates. I got the tank from a friend last summer and so most of the fish came with that tank.

I used to leave the lights on all day and never had a problem but recently have only been only turning the light on for a few hours a night after work.

I have the long led ballasts. One bulb is straight white lights and one bulb has alternating white and red. I have two ballasts over the tank.

I've been changing the water every two - three weeks at least 50% sometimes 75%. I use Prime & PH Regulator and clarifier sometimes.

I bought a live plant and added flourish to get it started but I suspect now that the flourish didn't help the situation. And the plant died.

 

[PlatyTetra831]

I heard that you shouldn't really have the light for more than 8 hours a day. But I would suggest Amano shrimp in large quantities as they love eating algae and can really go to town on the algae. Good luck I hope you solve the problem soon.

 

[femjock]

I heard that you shouldn't really have the light for more than 8 hours a day. But I would suggest Amano shrimp in large quantities as they love eating algae and can really go to town on the algae. Good luck I hope you solve the problem soon.

Thanks. I just changed my UV stabilizer today. Fingers crossed. I'll look for the shrimp you recommend. Do I have to hatch them myself or can you buy them already hatched?

 

[V227]

Might consider making one 25% WC a week Instead of a massive WC every 2-3 weeks. Probably will help your water to balance out.
Good idea not to over clean your A.C. filters. Consider squeezing the filter sponge out once every 2-3 weeks. Alternate cleanings between the 2 filters. This also might level things out.
Good luck.

 

[femjock]

Might consider making one 25% WC a week Instead of a massive WC every 2-3 weeks. Probably will help your water to balance out.

Good idea not to over clean your A.C. filters. Consider squeezing the filter sponge out once every 2-3 weeks. Alternate cleanings between the 2 filters. This also might level things out.

Good luck.

Thanks for responding. I was just rinsing my filter piece in dirty water on the suggest of someone at the pet store and changing them occasionally. When everything went crazy I started trying expensive filter and extra water changes.

I'll give the more frequent changes a try again.

 

[PlatyTetra831]

Thanks. I just changed my UV stabilizer today. Fingers crossed. I'll look for the shrimp you recommend. Do I have to hatch them myself or can you buy them already hatched?

You should be able to buy the already hatched that's how I bought mine.

 

[Fresh2o]

The amount/duration of light is the main contributor. Limit the number of hours by using a timer. Perhaps start at 6 hours and slowly increase it if the water clears up.
I would change water once a week rather than every 2-3 weeks.
Regarding the shrimp, you are probably confusing these with brine shrimp. Amano shrimp are roughly 1-1.5" in length, breed in saltwater but live in freshwater, and go for ~$3-5 USD a piece.

 

[V227]

It is absolutely true that excessive light usage in a fish tank greatly contributes to algae build up on the aquarium decor and sides. Excess nutrients in the water also fuel the growth of algae. That might not be the issue here.
I believe that Femjock was descibing the typical algae bloom which almost always occurs, temporarily clouding the water of newly set up tanks. As noted Femjock described routine water changes up to 75%. That alone could be a factor in prolonging the algae bloom problem. Those type of algae problems usually go away after a few weeks, when the water becomes more stable.
Cleaning off the rocks and other decor probably won't help the situation. Beneficial bacteria not only grows in the filter media but also on the decorative rocks, driftwood, or any object in the tank that is contacted by water current. Good idea to let the noted shrimp, Pleco or snails handle cleaning the rocks.
Good to hear that you are cleaning your filter components in used tank water. As for your two A.C. filters, really no need to replace the sponge or the ceramic bio pieces very often. Only when you notice them falling apart. I don't even run charcoal in my A.C. filters, just added more ceramic bio material. Hope this helps.

 

[PlatyTetra831]

The amount/duration of light is the main contributor. Limit the number of hours by using a timer. Perhaps start at 6 hours and slowly increase it if the water clears up.
I would change water once a week rather than every 2-3 weeks.
Regarding the shrimp, you are probably confusing these with brine shrimp. Amano shrimp are roughly 1-1.5" in length, breed in saltwater but live in freshwater, and go for ~$3-5 USD a piece.

No I I am talking about amano shrimp or Japanese algae eating shrimp, and yes I bought mine for 3$

 

[madasafish]

FemJock, it seems you have a nutrient/light imbalance in your tank that needs to be addressed at a fundamental level (less light, fewer fish, smaller feeds, etc.), but the most tractable solution to the immediate problem of a diatom or bacteria free-floating bloom is a Vortex Diatom filter. Have you tried this yet? They're a bit old school (note my join date <-- ), they're not cheap (~$130), and they're hard to come by, but those things work better than any other filter that I know of for addressing blooms, and you can see it has worked in 10-20 minutes. The diatomaceous earth is porous, and the algae get trapped in there. Running the filter for ~24 hours clears enough of the algae to really beat back the bloom for good if the source of the bloom is eliminated. Many other filters may get some of the algae or bacteria out, but enough remains that the bloom re-establishes itself. Not sure if links are allowed nowadays, but here's the link to the Vortex website if so:

Diatom Model "D-1" Filter - Vortex Innerspace Products Inc.

Another relevant point is your tank size and fish load. I don't see a mention of your tank size, but with the number of fish you have, I'm hoping you have something relatively large. An old rule of thumb is a limit of 1" of fish per gallon of tank for freshwater. This holds true relatively well for small fish (<4", say) in freshwater settings, and can be bent if you have lots of plants that suck up nutrients, but it falls apart for larger species where biomass and length don't scale linearly (e.g. an 8" Oscar is has probably 20-100x the mass of 8 1" Cardinal Tetras). From your description, I'm guessing you have ~20 fish, some of them at least 2-3". If so, you may be over the bioload for a small tank, and you may want to consider returning a few to a store, or starting up a second tank to house them.

The problem with blooms like you describe is that they can be singularly persistent, even when you've addressed their source. If money isn't an issue, buy the Vortex Diatom filter (smallest size, above, should be fine), and simultaneously address the bioload issue if relevant. If you want to avoid the cost, call around your LFS (local fish stores), especially those that seem to specialize in fish (not Petco, PetSmart), and ask if they rent their Vortex out. If they do... that'll save you a fair amount of money, but you'll want to make sure you soak all parts in bleach beforehand and after to ensure you don't end up getting Ick, or the like, from the filter. (I really don't recommend this option, but hey, it's out there.)

On algae eaters, you'd do well to check on the species you have. Some are great; some not so much. Avoid so-called Chinese Algae Eaters ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...cheilus_(Chinese_Algae_Eater)_in_Aquarium.jpg ) like the plague. They get huge, and the bigger they get, the less well they clean algae, and the more aggressive they get. Favor so-called Siamese Algae Eaters ( http://jurnalaquascape.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SAE.jpg , note the pointier nose, typically clearer line on the side) if you're confident you can keep the tank in good health. Avoid standard plecos (often look something like this, and are cheap: http://aquariumtidings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Plecostomus_700.jpg and can reach 2-3 feet in the wild, usually ~8" in a tank), favoring bristlenose plecos (https://www.keepingtropicalfish.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/bushy-nose-plecostomus-500p.jpg https://aquaticmag.com/wp-content/u...co-for-sale-and-where-to-buy-AquaticMag-8.jpg ), that tend to reach ~4", and which are dedicated algae eaters. They used to be quite expensive, but they breed *very* easily, so they're now a common presence in fish stores. Corydoras catfish (many varieties, but note shape here: https://d11kavc4axrfgm.cloudfront.n...ploads/1970/01/29103628/corydoras-catfish.jpg ) are good general bottom cleaners (benthic/benthopelagic), but they're not great at getting the sides of tanks, so they're not a good choice for beating back serious surface-blooms.

I've experienced all these issues before, and one of the things that drove me away from aquariums for so many years was the degree to which many stores gladly, almost gleefully sell fish to unsuspecting customers, knowing that chaos, blooms, death, are on the horizon. It affects their bottom dollar too much to only sell appropriate species for stable tanks... I get it. But it nips enthusiasm in the bud so quickly when your tank dies off...

Good luck!

 

[Funken_A]

I heard that you shouldn't really have the light for more than 8 hours a day. But I would suggest Amano shrimp in large quantities as they love eating algae and can really go to town on the algae. Good luck I hope you solve the problem soon.

I leave mine on for 10 hours a day.. I have it 14 inches above my water line but I run a massive LED light for my tank with very littl eissues. I also have CO2 and heavily planted but I not so sure light is the main cause of cloudy water... So its not necessarily the amount of light its a balance, and something else.


1st... Whats the parameters of the water you use for your tank. Is it tap is it well water??? You need to understand the baseline of the water you start with


UV sterilizers will kill beneficial bacteria as well as harmful bacteria. You could be resetting your tanks over and over again

If you have a phosphate problem and using a phosphate skimmer then you are over crowded or over feeding IMO,
or IF your water change has phosphates in it and that's not good


I would monitor nitrates phosphates and ammonia... for a while till you can get your hand on the pulse. Charcoal filters biowheels phosphate skimmers are not good for a planted tank either. Charcoal removes trace elements, biowheels de-gas CO2 from the water, and plants love some phosphates.. Too much phosphate is a sign of a different issue...


Buying algae eaters will not solve this problem.. Algae eaters IMO are great for tanks that are balanced better. They can keep up with the normal algae in a healthy tank, but they could never keep up with imbalances in a tank causing mass algae blooms. Algae will always win in a imbalance situation.


I also agree that most tanks should stick to the 1 inch of critter per gallon.. If your planted tank is healthy and you are on top of water changes etc.. then you can go above the rule.. but only if you have everything else dialed in and are super comfortable with the stability of your water parameters and maintenance schedules

 

[femjock]

FemJock, it seems you have a nutrient/light imbalance in your tank that needs to be addressed at a fundamental level (less light, fewer fish, smaller feeds, etc.), but the most tractable solution to the immediate problem of a diatom or bacteria free-floating bloom is a Vortex Diatom filter. Have you tried this yet? They're a bit old school (note my join date <-- ), they're not cheap (~$130), and they're hard to come by, but those things work better than any other filter that I know of for addressing blooms, and you can see it has worked in 10-20 minutes. The diatomaceous earth is porous, and the algae get trapped in there. Running the filter for ~24 hours clears enough of the algae to really beat back the bloom for good if the source of the bloom is eliminated. Many other filters may get some of the algae or bacteria out, but enough remains that the bloom re-establishes itself. Not sure if links are allowed nowadays, but here's the link to the Vortex website if so:

Diatom Model "D-1" Filter - Vortex Innerspace Products Inc.

Another relevant point is your tank size and fish load. I don't see a mention of your tank size, but with the number of fish you have, I'm hoping you have something relatively large. An old rule of thumb is a limit of 1" of fish per gallon of tank for freshwater. This holds true relatively well for small fish (<4", say) in freshwater settings, and can be bent if you have lots of plants that suck up nutrients, but it falls apart for larger species where biomass and length don't scale linearly (e.g. an 8" Oscar is has probably 20-100x the mass of 8 1" Cardinal Tetras). From your description, I'm guessing you have ~20 fish, some of them at least 2-3". If so, you may be over the bioload for a small tank, and you may want to consider returning a few to a store, or starting up a second tank to house them.

The problem with blooms like you describe is that they can be singularly persistent, even when you've addressed their source. If money isn't an issue, buy the Vortex Diatom filter (smallest size, above, should be fine), and simultaneously address the bioload issue if relevant. If you want to avoid the cost, call around your LFS (local fish stores), especially those that seem to specialize in fish (not Petco, PetSmart), and ask if they rent their Vortex out. If they do... that'll save you a fair amount of money, but you'll want to make sure you soak all parts in bleach beforehand and after to ensure you don't end up getting Ick, or the like, from the filter. (I really don't recommend this option, but hey, it's out there.)

On algae eaters, you'd do well to check on the species you have. Some are great; some not so much. Avoid so-called Chinese Algae Eaters ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...cheilus_(Chinese_Algae_Eater)_in_Aquarium.jpg ) like the plague. They get huge, and the bigger they get, the less well they clean algae, and the more aggressive they get. Favor so-called Siamese Algae Eaters ( http://jurnalaquascape.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SAE.jpg , note the pointier nose, typically clearer line on the side) if you're confident you can keep the tank in good health. Avoid standard plecos (often look something like this, and are cheap: http://aquariumtidings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Plecostomus_700.jpg and can reach 2-3 feet in the wild, usually ~8" in a tank), favoring bristlenose plecos (https://www.keepingtropicalfish.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/bushy-nose-plecostomus-500p.jpg https://aquaticmag.com/wp-content/u...co-for-sale-and-where-to-buy-AquaticMag-8.jpg ), that tend to reach ~4", and which are dedicated algae eaters. They used to be quite expensive, but they breed *very* easily, so they're now a common presence in fish stores. Corydoras catfish (many varieties, but note shape here: https://d11kavc4axrfgm.cloudfront.n...ploads/1970/01/29103628/corydoras-catfish.jpg ) are good general bottom cleaners (benthic/benthopelagic), but they're not great at getting the sides of tanks, so they're not a good choice for beating back serious surface-blooms.

I've experienced all these issues before, and one of the things that drove me away from aquariums for so many years was the degree to which many stores gladly, almost gleefully sell fish to unsuspecting customers, knowing that chaos, blooms, death, are on the horizon. It affects their bottom dollar too much to only sell appropriate species for stable tanks... I get it. But it nips enthusiasm in the bud so quickly when your tank dies off...

Good luck!

Wow! Thanks for all this info! I've had many deaths this year. So many my kids don't even bother with the funeral anymore.

I'll look up the bristlenose Plecos. I have 7 standard plecos but they are tiny...sometimes I see them sucking on some of the bigger fish. I also have 3 cat fish. They definitely work on the bottom rocks.

I put a new Green Killing Machine in last nigh at 630pm. It's a full day later and I definitely see a difference.

I think I'm going to do a 25% water change this week. It's been about 5 days since my last full change.

I took the white/red led tubes out of the tank to reduce the number of lights actually on when I do turn it on after work.

 

[fishenthusiast]

I'll look up the bristlenose Plecos. I have 7 standard plecos but they are tiny...sometimes I see them sucking on some of the bigger fish. I also have 3 cat fish. They definitely work on the bottom rocks.

You have seven common plecos in this tank? Correct me if I am misinterpreting this. If so, and even with smaller plecos, that would be a major contributor to the green water: too high of a bioload. Plecos produce a ton of waste. With the excess waste and the inability to keep up with it, free floating algae, as well as other algae types, become an issue.

 

[femjock]

You have seven common plecos in this tank? Correct me if I am misinterpreting this. If so, and even with smaller plecos, that would be a major contributor to the green water: too high of a bioload. Plecos produce a ton of waste. With the excess waste and the inability to keep up with it, free floating algae, as well as other algae types, become an issue.

Hi there. So I took pics of what I have. I have six (forgot one died) of the algae sucking on the plant (fake) and three of the kind that look like cat fish.



I was told at the pet store that the algae eaters that suck on the plant are basically neutral and I could have as many as I wanted. The three cat fish came with the tank.

If you read above at the beginning I list my community! It wouldn't surprise me if I have too many. The tank came with some that were quite big but my kids wanted to add a few. But we've had so many of the new fish die that I assumed I was ok now. This started off as a gift for my kids. Now I'm obsessed.

My Kissing Gorami is the size of my IPhone 6s and the blue gorami is not far behind. My rainbow shark is at least 4" long. They all came with the tank. But everything else is basically 1" Or smaller.

 

[fishenthusiast]

Hi there. So I took pics of what I have. I have six (forgot one died) of the algae sucking on the plant (fake) and three of the kind that look like cat fish.

View attachment 301213View attachment 301214

I was told at the pet store that the algae eaters that suck on the plant are basically neutral and I could have as many as I wanted. The three cat fish came with the tank.

If you read above at the beginning I list my community! It wouldn't surprise me if I have too many. The tank came with some that were quite big but my kids wanted to add a few. But we've had so many of the new fish die that I assumed I was ok now. This started off as a gift for my kids. Now I'm obsessed.

My Kissing Gorami is the size of my IPhone 6s and the blue gorami is not far behind. My rainbow shark is at least 4" long. They all came with the tank. But everything else is basically 1" Or smaller.

Also I have Kissing Gorami, blue gorami, a rainbow shark, a few black skirts, three bottom feeders that look like catfish, two Africa dwarf frogs and a bunch of algae eaters and a couple of misc plates. I got the tank from a friend last summer and so most of the fish came with that tank.

No worries! We've all been beginners. A lot of the time, and this is especially true for chain stores that don't specialize in fish, the employees are just trying to make a sale and aren't as educated on the subject of fishkeeping. This isn't always true, but a lot of time it is. Besides reducing the photoperiod as other members recommended, I would recommend that you eventually rehome the following fish: the Synodontis catfish, the common plecos (they'll become a big problem eventually), the Rainbow Shark, and both gourami. The Kissing Gourami can get quite large. This may seem excessive, but it is just my recommendation of how to better your tank's health (I know you just joined, so don't take this as a slam). The Black Skirt Tetras, Oto Catfish, Platies, and possibly the African Dwarf Frogs (Note: with proper feeding and if the tank is not too tall; they are usually hard to care for in community tanks due to the lack of food that they get, but it can be done) should be fine. Get fish that stay relatively small. Small barbs, Corydoras, small loaches, many varieties of small tetras, smaller gourami (look into Honey Gourami in the future), and many others will work in a tank this size. For now, keep up on the water changes and use the UV sterilizer as needed.

I know, a lot to take in, but hopefully this helps! You were going to hear about it eventually, so it's best just to rip off the band-aid now. When I was a beginner, I had a common pleco in my 10 gallon (reflecting on it, it wasn't my proudest moment). This was before the age of aquarium forums, and I didn't know as much as I know now. The hobby is that of trial and error, where one is constantly learning.

 

[femjock]

No worries! We've all been beginners. A lot of the time, and this is especially true for chain stores that don't specialize in fish, the employees are just trying to make a sale and aren't as educated on the subject of fishkeeping. This isn't always true, but a lot of time it is. Besides reducing the photoperiod as other members recommended, I would recommend that you eventually rehome the following fish: the Synodontis catfish, the common plecos (they'll become a big problem eventually), the Rainbow Shark, and both gourami. The Kissing Gourami can get quite large. This may seem excessive, but it is just my recommendation of how to better your tank's health (I know you just joined, so don't take this as a slam). The Black Skirt Tetras, Oto Catfish, Platies, and possibly the African Dwarf Frogs (Note: with proper feeding and if the tank is not too tall; they are usually hard to care for in community tanks due to the lack of food that they get, but it can be done) should be fine. Get fish that stay relatively small. Small barbs, Corydoras, small loaches, many varieties of small tetras, smaller gourami (look into Honey Gourami in the future), and many others will work in a tank this size. For now, keep up on the water changes and use the UV sterilizer as needed.

I know, a lot to take in, but hopefully this helps! You were going to hear about it eventually, so it's best just to rip off the band-aid now. When I was a beginner, I had a common pleco in my 10 gallon (reflecting on it, it wasn't my proudest moment). This was before the age of aquarium forums, and I didn't know as much as I know now. The hobby is that of trial and error, where one is constantly learning.

Thanks! Everyone who comes over and sees my tank says Angelina Jolie (my kissing gourami) is big already and will take up my tank but I can't bring myself to rehome her. One day!

I had some red cardinals (I think that's what they were called) and someone had a snack in the middle of the night. They lasted less than 24 hours. I read in a forum that rainbow sharks like to prey on fish that are shaped like them. I love that fish so I ignore his faults.

The blue gourami I'm less attached to. We never really bonded. How do you feel about surrendering to the pet store? Our local Petland (I'm in Canada) will take fish and rehome them for you...you bring the fish in with a separate sample of the tank water and if both are healthy you can surrender the fish to them.

Should I replace the common plecos with another kind? Someone in an reply suggested a bristlenose pleco.

Thanks again. Consider the band aid ripped!

 

[Coursair]

The little sucker mouth fish in the OP's top photo is NOT a Pleco. That is an Otocinclus. They stay small and are great fish, but can be fragile in new tanks.

The bottom pic is a Synodontis Catfish. It is the probable culprit for eating small fish or either of the Gouramis and both of those types can be jerks. Plus Gouramis tend to fight each other once they hit breeding size.

Your Syno may be S petricola or a hybrid. Syno cats can be difficult to ID
https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=857

They aren't aggressive, but they like groups and need a larger, longer tank for swimming room. They will eat fish that fit in their mouth.

A nice Gourami that won't bother small fish is a Pearl Gourami. I'd only get 1 and only if you place the other 2.

 

[missa]

Def limit your light use. Free floating algae needs light to grow. It sounds like you have great filtration. I had this issue with my water gardens every spring and I learned that adding oak flowers to the pond helped ( I collected them as they fell) They also had a product that clumped the algae and dropped it to the bottom where the filter picked it up and I netted the rest. Now I've used this stuff in a 125 gallon aquarium for my koi and goldfish. I have no idea the affects of it for tropical fish. But I can tell you that it worked well. Most places that sell pond products will have this stuff.

 

[fishenthusiast]

The little sucker mouth fish in the OP's top photo is NOT a Pleco. That is an Otocinclus. They stay small and are great fish, but can be fragile in new tanks.

The bottom pic is a Synodontis Catfish. It is the probable culprit for eating small fish or either of the Gouramis and both of those types can be jerks. Plus Gouramis tend to fight each other once they hit breeding size.

Your Syno may be S petricola or a hybrid. Syno cats can be difficult to ID
https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=857

They aren't aggressive, but they like groups and need a larger, longer tank for swimming room. They will eat fish that fit in their mouth.

A nice Gourami that won't bother small fish is a Pearl Gourami. I'd only get 1 and only if you place the other 2.

View attachment 301217

View attachment 301218

Thanks! Everyone who comes over and sees my tank says Angelina Jolie (my kissing gourami) is big already and will take up my tank but I can't bring myself to rehome her. One day!

I had some red cardinals (I think that's what they were called) and someone had a snack in the middle of the night. They lasted less than 24 hours. I read in a forum that rainbow sharks like to prey on fish that are shaped like them. I love that fish so I ignore his faults.

The blue gourami I'm less attached to. We never really bonded. How do you feel about surrendering to the pet store? Our local Petland (I'm in Canada) will take fish and rehome them for you...you bring the fish in with a separate sample of the tank water and if both are healthy you can surrender the fish to them.

Should I replace the common plecos with another kind? Someone in an reply suggested a bristlenose pleco.

Thanks again. Consider the band aid ripped!

I see now, I was getting confused by the OP's wording. Keep the Oto Catfish (in the pic you provided, those are not common plecos as Coursair mentioned). You can rehome with Petland for the other fish when you are ready (the sooner, the better).

I wouldn't even mess with getting any plecos at all. Bristlenose Plecos will stay smaller than most plecos, but they are overrated big time. They produce a ton of waste, and barely eat any algae anyway. The Oto Catfish that you have are enough. You can remove most of the algae from the glass anyway by hand and from the ornaments with a toothbrush.