Ammonia Mystery...

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Vircomore

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
534
Location
PA, USA
Hey all,

<--- For reference to my current tank setup.

First, a little backstory. I got interested in joining the aquarium hobby about 3 months ago. Being the noob that I was - I was quickly lured in by BiOrb, Inc. and their "miraculously easy-to-use aquariums". I bought a 10gal version and stocked it all too quickly with 4 Black Mollies.

Needless to say, that aquarium was a maintenance nightmare. Their "passive airflow" under-substrate filters do hardly anything - and combined with my haste in completely missing the cycle - I had to upgrade.

So - I went ahead and dropped the cash on the setup in my profile, and got it running and was all gung-ho to do a fishless cycle. Unfortunately, conditions were getting so bad in the 10gal (the ammonia was noticably smellable within a 10-foot radius of the tank) -- that I decided the Mollies needed to move ASAP and I'd deal with the consequences using a bigger tank.

...well, now I'm dealing. The half-cycled 26gal received it's occupants about the 2nd week in July. Since then, babies were born, the Ammonia level has skyrocketed to beyond the maximum color of my API Liquid kit - and 3 of the four adults have passed on.

I've been doing daily 25-30% water changes, and I've gone through 3 different water conditioners (off-brand --> API --> Prime) and the levels don't seem to be dropping.

The mystery here is that none of the mollies that died showed any of the researched symptoms of Ammonia poisoning, and none of the babies have died in the 3 weeks they've been alive. (The mollies who died behaved like this: slightly sluggish --> constantly hovering over the submerged heater with slight shimmies --> constantly hovering in the inch of space between the heater and the substrate with serious shimmies --> X_x)

My tank is not brackish, but it is significantly "salted" (SG 1.002-1.004) with Aquarium Salt which I was told would help fight the shimmies.

So, anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to fight my ammonia level back down to the point where the cycle will get going?

(I should also mention that I added Fluval "Zeo-Carb" to my canister as another hope for cleaning it up.)
 
You can do a bigger water change every day, two if you have to. When I was cycling my tank (with fish, uggh) I changed 70% of the water every day, and that was with only one fish. 8)
Prime gets "rid" of ammonia, but you will still get a reading. What are your other readings?
 
Thanks for the reply.

I haven't had a chance to test today, but yesterday my measurements were:

Amm: 6.o+ PPM (dark green)
Nitrites: Maybe 0.25 PPM
Nitrates: <10 PPM
PH: 7.8-8.0
Temp: Held constant at 81.0*F

I don't have tests for any other parameters, other than a manual Hydrometer that reads about 1.002-1.004.

I've been trying to change as much water as possible using my bucket-brigade. (Python ordered from Foster/Smith, on backorder :(...) And I'll keep at it.
 
Well, it sounds like your bacteria is trying to catch up with the new bioload, and I would do bigger water changes, and keep using the Prime. 6ppm is alot!
Once you get that Python, (I got my Aqueon at PetSmart, which is almost the same as the Python) it will be SO much easier!!!
 
yeah dude 25% water change isnt going to do anything...
Another point is, the tap water you are conditioning may naturally have a lot of ammonia in it. If you have a fridge with filtered water, use that. I know its time consuming, but do it.
Honestly, when I saw that my ammonia was 2.0, i did a 90% water change with filtered water, used prime, and now my water is down to 1.0. I still have a ways to go, but go big or go home.
If you do not have filtered water in the door of your fridge, go to walmart and buy distilled.
 
80% water changes FTW i like what saa said, "go big or go home" so true. when using aquarium salt to treat nitrite poisoning or any other disease you don't want to do it for longer than a week or 10 days, can't remember exactly but you don't want to do it for too long. if you're looking to go a little brackish for the mollies you would want to use marine salt.
 
Well, distilled water may lack in things, but it doesnt have extra things that are harmful... my local fish store told me that aquarium water actually is distilled water. Which if you wiki it, its just water with nothing in it...

You dont really have to use nothing but distilled water...i mean if he does an 80-90% change which I think would be smart, theres still going to be some old water in the tank so... he should be ok. The important thing is removing the harmful stuff. At this point, his tank is so bad off those fish would be better off in brand new water...
Your fish will thank you, and stop dying...
 
Thanks all.

If I do an 80% water change with my current dinky little siphon, It may take awhile and would require me to shut off my canister to get the water level that low.

Would that be ok? Or would I be better off doing a quick succession of 30% - refill - wait - 30% - refill - wait - 30% - refill?
 
Ya I mean...huge waste of time to do it all separate like that. Just take the lid off the tank, take a clean pitcher and pour it out into the nearest sink or tub.
 
Doing small 30% water changes is not a good idea. I'll demonstrate why it's a waste of time:

Say you have a tank with 10 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 100 ppm nitrates. Those are bad numbers (except nitrite is good) but they're easy for math :p

So, you do a 30% PWC. Your new numbers would be 7ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 70ppm nitrates.

Another 30% PWC, your ammonia is 4.9ppm, 0 nitrite still, and 49ppm nitrate.

Let's start over and do 1 larger water change this time. Say you have a tank with 10 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 100 ppm nitrates.

You do 1 60% PWC. Your new numbers are ammonia 4ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 40ppm. You changed the same amount of water, but your levels are lower. It's MATH baby and you can't escape it :lol:
 
Doing small 30% water changes is not a good idea. I'll demonstrate why it's a waste of time:

Say you have a tank with 10 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 100 ppm nitrates. Those are bad numbers (except nitrite is good) but they're easy for math :p

So, you do a 30% PWC. Your new numbers would be 7ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 70ppm nitrates.

Another 30% PWC, your ammonia is 4.9ppm, 0 nitrite still, and 49ppm nitrate.

Let's start over and do 1 larger water change this time. Say you have a tank with 10 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites, 100 ppm nitrates.

You do 1 60% PWC. Your new numbers are ammonia 4ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 40ppm. You changed the same amount of water, but your levels are lower. It's MATH baby and you can't escape it :lol:


That's right. Only do more than 60 percent.
 
not if you refill it between changes. the water mixes back together. it is only really going to help his horrible params and his fish if he does a massive water change.
 
I'll definitely go with the 60%+. That math definitely makes sense considering draining a recently-filled tank is basically draining a portion of the recently-added "clean water" right back out, even if it is mixed with the nasties.
 
Oh ya absolutely. Changing some is better than none but those parameters are dangerous. So in this case I'd honestly do a huge change. It's the same thing I did 4 days ago and worked wonders.
 
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