Angel still isn't eating

[Potluck]

So I am still having an issue with the angel not eating, he wants to but it's like he's super picky with food now, what happened is my lid fell in the tank and startled him im not sure if he hit anything he doesn't have any marks but there's now a new issue, I got my nitrates down to like 35 I did 2 water changes a week but now my ph is up, could 7.8 ph be affecting my Angel? I read they that's not a bad number for them, i raised the temp to 78°, but there is other stuff going on with the tank, so my clowns I don't know if this is normal but one will turn sideways and slide across my drift wood on its side, i know they do some crazy things lol, but I also read fish do this with parasites no other fish is acting weird though, I'm worried sick cause this time last year is when I got that whatever it was that killed half my stock.

Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 35
Ammonia - 0
Ph - 7.8
Temp - 78°

The angels stomach isn't sunken in from what I can tell but he definitely isn't his normal self he wouldn't even eat frozen blood works, my lfs said try to get some pics and maybe do a dose of general cure but it's never worked for me in the past and I don't know if it's clown loach safe. I'll try to get some pics of him he stays hidden in between the drift wood now and stares at his reflection in the glass ugh.

 

[Ashenwelt]

I would still work on that nitrate... it's still high. Do you have any plants? If your just dealing with stress have you considered raising the tank temp?

It honestly sounds like this could just be you scared the daylights out if the fish. So now you try and relax him. Less tragic around the fish... higher temp... cleaner water.

Btw do would buy some RO (just bottled drinking or distilled water from the market) for your next change. Ph 7.8 seems a bit high for your angel. They are hardy... but a small drop with less nitrates and less hardness couldn't hurt and should help.

Just my initial thoughts. Haven't had angels for a very long time.

 

[Potluck]

Yes I have plants, I don't feed ferts so that's not causing the nitrate issue, I am going to slowly replace the gravel over a month time span as I have thick pebble gravel so I think I'm not getting everything when I vac, I keep my temp on the lower side because of the hundreds of people that recommended a lower tank temp because it slows down bacterial growth, maybe I'm just paranoid cause of the bacterial infection killed 16 of my fish about a year ago but I haven't had any deaths since lowering my temp, 35 is way better than it was and it's really not bad.

 

[Potluck]

Here's a pic of my angel he doesn't leave that area

 

[Ashenwelt]

Sometimes a little extra warmth helps stress. Personally I would prefer 78-80... But I am old fashioned.

 

[Potluck]

I'm at 78-79 right now, but I also have to be careful because I don't just have angels so I have to accommodate or at least split the temp to accommodate all my species.

 

[Potluck]

Okay dang it, I just tested my water yesterday before my water change my Nitrate was 35 now is back up to 55-60, and my tap water is <3 more like 1-2, this is so frustrating 2+ years i have tried getting my Nitrate sub 40 I finally do and now is back up to 50+ gonna give up honestly lol
Top to bottom nitrite, ammonia, high ph test is actually the wring test as its lighter than the brown, shade darker than the blue on the normal ph test lol, and finally Grr Nitrate

 

[Potluck]

Maybe I have a bad Nitrate test solution but doubt it as these are bran new bottles, maybe im doing it wrong, I shake the bottles vigorously for 1 min, add 10 drops from bottle 1 shake lightly, add 10 from bottle 2 shake tube for 1 min very hard, let sit 5 min

 

[Ashenwelt]

Is your filter full of gunk maybe? Either way use some prime and THEN start some major water changes.

 

[Potluck]

My water changes are major lol, 1/3 gravel 40% water, one filter is bran new the other one is flowing great, I did over feed like crazy last night trying to get the angel to eat, 2 cubes of frozen blood worms and 1/2 tbl spoon of flake food

 

[Potluck]

That's weekly for 3 weeks then let the tank rest for a week, I do use prime i actually use .5 over what the directions say, for 20 gallons removed i use 2.5 ml of prime

 

[Stacey W.]

What kind of food have you tried?

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[Potluck]

Cobalt probiotics tropical and spirulina, frozen blood worms, omega 3 veggie, he did eat a couple flakes last night i think... he went after them but only way he will eat or attempt is if im away from the tank and have the lunar blues only on do was hard to see if he actually ate them or spit them back out.

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[Stacey W.]

Hmm, I agree with getting you water parameters in check. As someone suggested using prime will work well with water changes. When I first started fishkeeping my nitrates skyrocketed. I then performed small water changes every other day to get my levels down. Then I did weekly water changes religiously. Also he's probably just spooked from the hood incident. What I feed is super carnivore Omega one frozen food, omega one tropical flakes and Hikari sinking pellets for my loaches, but my angel loves them. Give him some time and be patient. Keep me updated and good luck.

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[Potluck]

I use prime, I've spent like 60.00 in food over the last 2 days lol, he's always been a super picky eater but never this picky he will see a piece and if that piece gets knocked down from the top he will give up, he only top feeds unless he's eating off the bottom when the other fish are calmed then and he feels safe, I think I'm going to clean my older filter today maybe it's junked up but it doesn't look like it and it's flow is strong, my other filter is bran new, the Nitrate thing has been going on for over 2 years with ritual water changes, at one point I actually was over cleaning my tank which caused a few deaths, 100% gravel vac, filter, 50% water , 2x the prime recommended, decor this was a long long time ago, but I was over cleaning over using prime, and the kicker my nitrates were still 60-80ppm

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[Potluck]

I really need to change out my gravel it's thick pebble I do get everything out when I vac as I do 1/3 gravel a week and 25-30% water then go over the top of the rest of the gravel, it's the only thing I can think of that's causing the Nitrate issue as I don't over feed normally, I have been for a few days to try and get the angel to eat but before the incident I was feeding 5 times a week and small feeding sessions twice a day, maybe it is my test solution but I just bought 2 new bottles but they could be bad to i guess, having my buddy take a sample into college to get the exact reading of Nitrate in chemistry class.

 

[Andy Sager]

I think we went over this before but I will repeat. If the fish is trying to eat but does not swallow the food, generally that's a sign of either the food not being to it's liking or a condition within the fish where it's throat is either blocked or inflamed so the fish cannot swallow. Since you have tried so many different types of foods with this result, I lean towards the latter being the problem. However, the stomach not being pinched or bloated after all this time sounds like the fish is finding a way to eat SOMETHING which brings us back to fright. The lid incident may have really spooked him bad and the fact that he doesn't move from a certain spot as you said, sounds more like it's a fear thing.
Along those lines, if there are other Angels in the tank, he may be the "low man on the totem pole" so there's another good reason for hiding out where it's safe. One way to confirm this is to put him alone in another tank and see if he acts differently. Make sure there are plenty of places for him to hide in as a "security blanket" and see how he reacts. If he starts eating and eating good, it's the other tank's decor or tankmates that's the problem.
As for the nitrate issue, something organic is causing it. You just haven't gotten to the source yet so you need to keep addressing things one at a a time to see which it was.
As for water hardness, Angels don't really have issues with it unless they are wild fish. I've kept and bred Angels in water that was extremely hard and alkaline as well as soft and acidic. I've even transferred my Angels from the soft, acid water in NJ into the hard alkaline water of S. Florida and the only issue was them not breeding again, but they lived for years.

Hope this helps.

 

[Potluck]

Yeah im learning towards him just being scared, he did eat some flakes today with the light on and he didn't spit them back out, I did notice he only goes for bigger flakes and if he's spitting them back out is because the flake was to big I believe, idk honestly but I will say it's driving me crazy I'm constantly checking on him, I only have one angel the female died last year from egg binding, as far as the Nitrate I'm honestly out of options, I've changed all my decor from plastic to natural checked filters they weren't gunked up, added plants, my tank is under stocked, I do weekly water changes sometimes 2, added a second filter to filter the dead zone I had, the last thing is the gravel which I plan on replacing just have to find the kind I want.

Maybe this is a dumb question but could it be the glass I never clean my glass

 

[Andy Sager]

Yeah im learning towards him just being scared, he did eat some flakes today with the light on and he didn't spit them back out, I did notice he only goes for bigger flakes and if he's spitting them back out is because the flake was to big I believe, idk honestly but I will say it's driving me crazy I'm constantly checking on him, I only have one angel the female died last year from egg binding, as far as the Nitrate I'm honestly out of options, I've changed all my decor from plastic to natural checked filters they weren't gunked up, added plants, my tank is under stocked, I do weekly water changes sometimes 2, added a second filter to filter the dead zone I had, the last thing is the gravel which I plan on replacing just have to find the kind I want.

Maybe this is a dumb question but could it be the glass I never clean my glass

Well then, and don't take this the wrong way, I'm hoping you find a big pile of poo somewhere under the gravel so that you will finally find the source. I know it's frustrating when you can't get the answer. You just have to keep digging.

As for the glass, I don't think there is anything organic in glass that can decompose so No, not the glass. I will say this tho, are you cleaning the outside glass with a glass cleaner? I had a customer with situation where he would lose his tank after the maid came in and cleaned. We went through all the other possibilities with no luck until I went over to the guy's house and saw a beautiful white tile floor. I asked if the maid used any bleach in the water she mopped the floor with and it turned out, she did and the air pump, which was under the tank, was just sucking up the fumes and poisoning the water. Once she stopped with the bleach, the fish stopped dying. Well this also applies to glass cleaner with ammonia. In an established tank, the ammonia would quickly be converted to nitrates. (I have that now in my warehouse from ammonia in the air.) So if you are cleaning the outside of the tank, just use water and nothing else.

 

[Potluck]

No i don't use any chemicals at all to clean the outside, just a towel with plain water, im so careful with my tank I literally wash my hands like a surgeon before I even start water changes lol, as far as finding something in the gravel I'm sure I would of found it by now after 2+ years trying to get my nitrates down grr lol, I know it's not good for them long term at high levels I thought craming plants in the tank would fix it but nope lol I don't get it honestly as my tap is low so that isn't the cause either is very frustrating.