Appropriate size for freshwater shoals

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dalto

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I know everyone will be shocked by me challenging conventional wisdom but I see and hear advice on shoaling fish pretty often that goes something like the following. "That is a shoaling fish. It shouldn't be alone, you need at least x of them." Where x is typically either 5 or 6. Sometimes the word "school" is used instead but I don't believe that there are any freshwater schooling species. Although, I could be mistaken there.

After keeping quite a few shoaling species over the years, mostly tetras, my opinion has become that those numbers are way too low. I don't know exactly what the right number is but I think it is more in the 20+ range than the 5+ range. I have commonly kept groups of tetras in groups of 8-12 individuals and the only time I typically witness anything like shoaling behavior is when the fish are stressed or frightened. On the other hand, put a group of 30 tetras, especially in a larger tank and they demonstrate that behavior nearly all the time. I am not sure where those numbers came from but I suspect it is based more on the number of the same fish that people were willing to put in their tank then anything else.

Now, there are fish, especially some of the more gregarious cichlids that seem to do fine in smaller groups. I am not sure that these are really "shoaling fish" though. If they are they are the shoaling behavior is clearly different than that of Characins and Corydoras species as examples.

Just to be clear on what I mean here, the two times I have kept large shoals of tetras, they have kept together nearly all the time. In fact, the only time they didn't was at feeding time when the food was on the bottom of the tank. In smaller groups the behavior is different. Sometimes they will pull together but they would not always be that way.

Clearly, my sample size of 2 larger shoals is not conclusive. I would be interested in hearing others opinions on this, especially those who have kept large groups of shoaling species.
 
I'd tend to agree with you, though I've not yet tried more than 10 of the same species in a tank at a time. Right now I have 8 Head and Tailights and they sure aren't shoaling, and they are pretty aggressive to each other. Long term I'd like to get a large (~20) group of Neons or something similarly colorful.

Personally, I think tanks look better with large groups of a few species rather than what seems to be the typical hodge-podge that seems to happen with all of us short-attention span people!
 
I currently have 21 tetras, an even mix of Cardinals, Rummys, and Black Neons. The Rummys definitely shoal with one another, and rather tightly at times. Not all of the time, but definitely in the afternoon when they're more active. They'll shoal with Cardinals in the absence of stress as well, but more loosely. I think that Bloodfins also tend to shoal tightly, though I've never kept them. Black Neons, not so much. The tightness of shoaling in a typical home aquarium is definitely species-dependent.

I've always been under the impression that the point of keeping shoaling species in groups of five or six was to keep them from feeling stressed, and not to mimic natural conditions. Put a single Neon Tetra in a tank and it'll likely die from stress. Put six of them in a tank and they'll probably live happy, full lives. Of course, groups of 30+ tetras in 100+ gallon tanks are closer to what they experience naturally and, therefore, more ideal. That said, I don't know if there's a correlation between tetras constantly shoaling in large numbers and tetra happiness.
 
How about that other side of the equation? I've a 30 gallon African Riverarian biotope set-up write now with a population of two common Kribensis (Pelvicachromis pulcher), six Congo tetras (Phenacogrammus interruptus) and three upside down catfish (Synodontis nigriventris). The Congo tetras, consisting of four females and two males shoal continuously. They abandon the shoal only when they are stressed or frightened. The Kribs recently breed and it has been pretty enjoyable over the last couple days watching the Kribs fierce fully defending their brood from the Congo's.
 
I've 8 rn's and a mix of 3 neons,1 cardinal and 3 green neons (padded each shoal as some were lost) in a 20 tall. The rn's will follow the leader at times but mostly all the tetras congregate in the middle of the tank. They follow the male gbr around to, it's pretty funny acrually. "Ooo ooo he's bright, let's go!!) In my 30l I've 15 ember tetras and 6 elegans, 3 green laser corys (look pretty much identical.) 5 hexazona barbs. The embers move throughout the tank in a shoal, they'll pick a plant and all stage at various levels , sometimes they split into 2 separate shaols and display the same behavior. The barbs school feverishly, if one gets separated it freaks right out and frantically seeks out the group. The corys all stay together tight, they chill under a pice of dw, often side by side. They feed in a line, like a hungry search party.

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I have the typical hodge podge aquarium and i rarely see any shoaling though i was interesred in the fact that they arent schooling and more acurately shoal

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I agree that 5-6 seems too low. Every shoaling fish I've kept has still acted pretty nervous at those numbers, and doesn't seem to really come out of their shell and act more natural until the 8-12 mark. I've never kept 30+, so I can't speak to that behavior.
 
What is the difference between a shoal and a school???

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I tend to agree that the conventional wisdom here is not entire based on fact and there is a lot blind information regurgitation that takes place.
Home aquaria is obviously so much different than the wild that it can sometimes be hard to figure out what exactly is the "proper" way to handle some situations, and I feel like this is one of them. Now, I personally think social fish should be kept in social groups. Though, I think the numbers differ vary on the situation.
For larger cories, they tend to group up when they eat, and hang out in a loose group, but they don't flip out if they are alone. I also see no difference in behavior if I have 3, or 10. For the dwarf cories, I see them stick much closer together in a tighter group. They seem more easily stressed by small numbers.
For tetras, I have also found that more tetras will clump up, though if I have fewer they will go off and do their own thing. Rummies were the first shoal I ever had. I got 5, and they were all over. I got 6, and suddenly they only traveled in a group. Based on this, I tend to tell people to get as many as they can. I think that the numbers generally repeated have come from a minimum at which shoaling behavior can be seen, but over time the minimum part has been dropped for "acceptable."
There are some shoaling species I believe can do fine in smaller groups as well. I have 5 cherry barbs. They never group up. They are more interested in flirting and dominance to ever pull together and work as a team. I have currently had them for about 2 years and counting, so I would have to say that me only having 5 is not a detriment to their lives. Will they group up more if I get more? I don't know. We will find out soon enough if the store by me have their awesome Black Friday sales again...
I also recently acquired black neons. I ended up with 5 (that was all I could get). they shoaled up for the first 2 days, but now they don't. I am hoping to add to that group soon, so I will see if it changes when i have more like 10.
I also do not know of any fw schooling species. However, that one I have eventually concede on after too many ppl were confused by me saying shoal. :p
 
I would think that bluegills are a schooling freshwater fish, not sure though

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Nope. They are not. Bluegills actually are much more independent than many of the shoaling tetras and males will guard nests after spawning. They form colonies, but nothing near the synchronization of a marine school.
 
Freshwater game fish such as bass school when they are young, once they get bigger they tend to be more solitary.

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How about that other side of the equation? I've a 30 gallon African Riverarian biotope set-up write now with a population of two common Kribensis (Pelvicachromis pulcher), six Congo tetras (Phenacogrammus interruptus) and three upside down catfish (Synodontis nigriventris). The Congo tetras, consisting of four females and two males shoal continuously. They abandon the shoal only when they are stressed or frightened. The Kribs recently breed and it has been pretty enjoyable over the last couple days watching the Kribs fierce fully defending their brood from the Congo's.
P. interruptus is a very interesting species. Mine were more hierarchical than the average tetra and they did stay together at much smaller numbers.
 
Freshwater game fish such as bass school when they are young, once they get bigger they tend to be more solitary.

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Trout and Bullheads shoal when young as well, but tend to become become more solitary as they age.


P. interruptus is a very interesting species. Mine were more hierarchical than the average tetra and they did stay together at much smaller numbers.

One of my top three favorite tetra species. Those, and the Black phantoms (Hyphessobrycon megalopterus) and Red phantoms (Hyphessobrycon swegles). I've noticed the H. swegles tend to be more of a shoaling fish than the H. megalopterus, but H. megalopterus tends towards a lot more hierarchical behavior than H. swegle.
 
Trout and Bullheads shoal when young as well, but tend to become become more solitary as they age.




One of my top three favorite tetra species. Those, and the Black phantoms (Hyphessobrycon megalopterus) and Red phantoms (Hyphessobrycon swegles). I've noticed the H. swegles tend to be more of a shoaling fish than the H. megalopterus, but H. megalopterus tends towards a lot more hierarchical behavior than H. swegle.

My experience with black phantoms was also that they are quite heirarchical. They are actually one of the social fish that I see no issue in only keeping a small amount of and have even seen singles kept as the centerpiece fish in small tanks quite successfully.
 
It really depends. In some cases, the number of fish may not be very significant compared to other factors, such as plants/decor, the other fish in the tank, and specific species behavior.

If there are areas of dense cover in the tank, fish will feel more secure and relaxed (thus will actually spend more time in the open areas in front where they are most visible). Some species are known to shoal tightly, and tend to stick together even when "relaxed". With other species, as they relax, so does the shoaling behavior. Also, some species tend to display similar shoaling behavior whether in a group of 5 or in a group of 30. Other species may not be as flexible. Regarding the example of a large shoal in a large tank: depending on the species and circumstances, constant shoaling could be a sign that all is well, or it could be a sign that the tank is too open, and the fish are constantly feeling threatened.

To me, the main concern with bare-minimum shoal numbers is that there's a higher risk of a fish getting singled-out and picked on by the others. Otherwise, I think small shoals are just fine. In any case, however, the more the better. (without overstocking, of course)
 
I wonder though, if you put these species in a bigger shoal if you would see more natural shoaling behavior.


In a long enough tank, yes, I think it's very likely. 30 small tetras in a 29, probably not, but the same 30 tetras in a 75, sure.


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