Betta blues

[joannde]

About 2 wks ago I started up my new Eclipse 3 and put in my Crowntail betta with one of my female platies (2 months old) and three ghost shrimp. I had an ecocomplete substrate with some wisteria, an anubia and a baby red rubin sword that I was going to transplant to the 29G when it got bigger.

The tank was cycled and the parameters were never out of kilter. Within 3 days my Betta was dead I replaced him - his replacement lasted 2 days. I replaced him - his replacement lasted 6 days.
The platy is fine.

The first betta lost all his color and he had been breathing heavy for a day before he died; his fins were eaten away when I found him. The second betta did not lose his color and I never saw any hard breathing or any other symptom; ditto for the third.

So .... what the heck could be going on here ????? I'm thinking that:
a) there's a contaminant in the tank- but then wouldn't the platy also suffer ?
b) the ghost shrimp attacked and killed each betta ? or one of the shimp was murderer. With the long fins I would assume the betta would be harder to catch than the platy ??
c) the platy is the carrier of some illness / infection that is affecting the bettas ?????

I really liked that third betta - he was a pretty lavendar with red fins. I picked him out straight out the box at Petsmart before they even got him into the cup. I took him home in his 1 tablespoon of water so he wouldn't have to acclimate twice in one day.

I'm really down over this

 

[QTOFFER]

Oh man! That sucks. Losing three bettas in two weeks has got to be something more than bad luck or bad genes.

I'd go with a) - that something is in the tank that is harming your bettas. It must be something that damages the labyrinth organ since your platy is unaffected.

Ghost shrimp don't strike me as your typical stalk and pounce predator. Sure they'll eat a dead betta on the bottom...but bring one down, unlikely. I wouldn't rule out c) completely, but it seems unlikely that the platy would carry such a fast acting disease without showing any symptoms itself.

I don't have any experience keeping bettas with the plants you listed. Maybe one of them is poisonous to bettas? Have you noticed the bettas eating the plants?

Maybe there is something in the ecocomplete that is harming the betta?

I would do a complete teardown and rinse everything silly - including the substrate and plants. So strange that the platy isn't affected!

Hope you get to the bottom of this mystery.

BTW, What is the temp of the tank?

 

[severum mama]

joannde- I am really sorry to hear about your losses.

QTOFFER brings up some excellent points. but I have to ask. Did you get all 3 of these bettas at Petsmart? I was just wondering because I've had mixed results with the bettas I've rescued from their cups. The first betta I bought there did great (Spence Jr., named after the BF). He lived with us for about 2 years before he finally died, presumably from old age. When Spence Jr. died, I went back to Petsmart to rescue another betta from those terrible cups. The second one I bought (Spence III) lived for less than a week, and showed the same symptoms before he died that your first betta did- Heavy breathing and loss of color, and he was also laying on the substrate the night before he died. If you bought all 3 of those fish at Petsmart, I'd have to wonder if there is something going on with the supplier that is sending these fish to the store.

Just a thought. Hope your next attempt goes well.

 

[Zagz]

So sorry to hear of your losses. I would suspect the lfs if they were all bought at the same one. I agree with severum mama that this would be the first suspect. If not then I think Qtoffer may have nailed it on the head with the contaminant affecting the labrinyth organ of the betta.

 

[An t-iasg]

Oh, Joann, that is indeed awful. I'm so sorry

In addition to the excellent advice the others have given you, I would also like to ask about your plants and fertilizer dosing. Are you using Excel? I have had mixed results with this product. I don't dispute at all that it's an excellent fertilizer. I have had some bad experiences when I used it in a betta tank. Not all, but some of my bettas became very listless and laid on the bottom, breathing heavily, very shortly after an Excel dose. One was new at the time and I also suspected, a few days later, that I had bought a sick betta. I believe that already weakened bettas may have a problem with the labyrinth organ and some fertilizers.

 

[joannde]

Hi - thanks for all the responses.

Yes, all my bettas come from Petsmart. The other two (Piggy and Spot) are doing well. In fact, Piggy's tank is a replica of the Killer Tank. Piggy's tank and the Killer Tank sit side by side (with a sheet of thin styrofoam between them as a view block). Same bag of EcoComplete was used for the substrate, same bag of BioSpira was used to kick start the cycle, same bunch of wisteria was used, the anubias came from the same tank at the LFS. They've been fed exactly the same foods, excactly the same days, at exactly the same time. The only difference between the two tanks was that the Killer Tank had a baby Red Rubin Sword and Piggy's tank has a teeny Italian Val. The sword was trashed and the ghost shrimp were removed to another tank last night - just in case those were indeed the culprits.

I've been racking my brain and one thing I thought of is that I could have had my hand in the tank at some point and not the other to do some rearranging of the plants - but that's a maybe - I generally dont make notes of things like that. So maybe there was something on my hand that I introduced accidentally and the platy is just way hardy so is surviving it or like QTOffer said, maybe whatever it was only affects the labyrinth organ.

The tank temp is 76 - 78 in both tanks. No dosing of anything at all, not even Excel (I only use it in the 29G).

I do think I'm going to tear the tank down and start over. Those little Eclipse setups make great Betta tanks - Piggy LOVES his and with the two tanks side by side they have a nice curve so there's a good view of one or the other (or both) from wherever you view them from.

Any idea on how to clean / disinfect the biowheel ? I THINK Big Al's carries replacements but it doesn't say Eclipse System 3 on the part so I'm not sure - plus I don't really need anything else right now so a Big Al's order for just that would be a bit pricey (and I know Petsmart doesn't have the part).

 

[severum mama]

Are you sure? The Petsmart where I got my bettas sells extra Biowheels. You might want to check into it.

 

[joannde]

I'll look again on Friday - if the one I go to doesn't have them (pretty sure they don't) then there's another I can try that's also nearby.

I'm still trying to figure out this mystery - I really wish I could pinpoint what happened here ... I keep looking at that tank and wondering ............ <<< sigh >>>

 

[clubsuperduty]

If your looking for biowheels look by the stand where they set up their fish station to pack fish to sell there is usually a place by there that has all the parts for those filters because they dont have them on the shelves. Also petsmart puts something in there betta cups to make them kinda dazed like a tranquilizer hint the bright blueish color water.

 

[joannde]

clubspuerduty - I think you're right ! I do remember seeing some parts around the bagging station - I'll check it out.

 

[An t-iasg]

The blue color in the betta cups is not a tranquilizer. It is probably methylene blue, a mild fungal preventative.

 

[joannde]

Thats what I thought it was also.

BTW, my petsmart is using much larger cups these days. More than 2x the volume I think. Its still not ideal and gives the wrong impression about how much room a betta needs, but its a marked improvement. Obviously they can't set up 3 gallon tanks for each Betta (they told me they sell 50 bettas a week !!!) but its better. And its better than the LFS' who put their bettas for sale into fancy glass vases as those look like they are made to be a permanent home - those plastic cups filled with blue water are obviously NOT.

 

[TwoHobbies]

Joannde, I really don't know anything about betas, but I don't think there is any chance the Ghost Shrimp killed them. I also believe anything in the water that could have killed your beta would have killed your ghost shrimp as well.

Is ther any chance that the betas are housed alone most of there life, and when put in a tank with others are just stressed.

Ps...on a happier note my son got 3 cories ( mostly on someones recommendation.....not sure who .) He loves them!

 

[joannde]

Hi Twohobbies. I would think if it were stress that they would have lost their color, at least a little, before dying. The one twosome that didn't get along were the first betta and the platy - she was an agressive beast and chased him for 1/2 a day before I swapped her out for a kinder gentler sister (I took all the females out of the 29G when I started to experience a population explosion ! they're now distributed in several tanks - no male platies allowed ! LOL). It seems unlikely to me that three bettas were all of the "antisocial" variety, but I guess it is a possibility, and one I hadn't suspected - good input and food for thought.

And congrats on the cories ! They are great !

 

[TwoHobbies]

Well I'm not a beta owner and if I had a question on one I would hope you would be one of the responses I would get, but I have never seen color changes in my fish when they were stressed.
The first thing I notice is that they don't act normal, they hide, stop eating or become less active.

I must say I think sudden fish deaths are the most frustrating aspect of this hobby.

 

[joannde]

I must say I think sudden fish deaths are the most frustrating aspect of this hobby.

INDEED !!!! If we were all microbiologists we might have a shot at explaining sudden / mystery deaths. Barring that, we sit and wonder why. On the bright side, it shows how much we care about our charges.

 

[Fish Heads]

Sorry to hear about your bettas. They may have had velvet. This disease is hard notice except by someone experienced in bettas. Only after this easily treatable disease is advanced does it affect the betta in ways that the average person can recognize.

With all the information given to you on Bettas, I thought that I would give my 2 cents worth. I used to breed bettas.

First Petsmart bettas are probably coming over from Thailand. That is a long trip in a cup of water for a fish.

Second, the bettas shipped over are older. Since bettas live only 3 years. (I still have a grandfather who is now 4 years old that was one of my babies) The petsmart ones are at least a year old.)

Third, they are shipped in a solution to reduce stress. Several websites offer this for sale to fish breeders for shipping. This is usually a good thing but if the betta is still in the solution several days after the shipment has arrived, the pet shop has not changed the water since it left Thailand.

Fourth, I have had problems with two of my eclipse systems. It began to shed the fibers from the biowheel. It killed all of my females within a few weeks. My other fish did not seem to be affected.

Fifth, Some filters have fast currents, I also suspect that the current is too stressful for bettas. Bettas like quiet water. They were bred from a wild short-tailed form that lived in water puddles.

Bettas are pure meat eaters. They don't nibble on plants. They can however use a good varied diet with different types of foods including high protein.

Please try again on bettas but find a local betta organization to adopt one that would otherwise be culled. See the IBC at www.ibcbettas.org or a good site with information at www.bettatalk.com

 

[joannde]

Hi FishHeads - thank you so much for this post - I'm sorry I didn't notice it until now.
I didn't know that you could adopt bettas ! I'd LOVE to do that !! I've been to both sites you pointed to but don't see anything about adoptions or even lists of betta breeders that I could contact could you help me out ?
I converted the Eclipse into an ADF tank, but I have a 20Long that I want to do as a female betta tank. I just can't get enough of those "wagging tails" when a betta sees you coming up to the tank !