Beyond confused about ponds

[DragonGirl]

So I'm getting ready to start a little ~200 gallon fancy goldfish pond (thinking like 7-8 fancies). It'll be 3 feet deep in the deepest place. I'm pretty sure I won't be filtering it - my dad has a pond at his house and will soon be removing the filter because it doesn't do much for him and his professional pond building friend recommends no filter.

I do, however, plan to have an internal pump and waterfall. I'm trying to research as much as I can but all the pond building things with waterfalls skip straight from digging to ta-da it's all filled and working! I know it's not this simple but I can't find any real how-tos for installing a pump and using it to power a small waterfall (1-2 feet above water line). So my questions:

What do I need to make this setup?
How do I go about setting it up and getting it all running?
There seem to be a lot of waterfall filters would this be worth it for cycling or would I be able to just use the pump and plain waterfall to cycle?

 

[khoifish89]

So I'm getting ready to start a little ~200 gallon fancy goldfish pond (thinking like 7-8 fancies). It'll be 3 feet deep in the deepest place. I'm pretty sure I won't be filtering it - my dad has a pond at his house and will soon be removing the filter because it doesn't do much for him and his professional pond building friend recommends no filter.

I do, however, plan to have an internal pump and waterfall. I'm trying to research as much as I can but all the pond building things with waterfalls skip straight from digging to ta-da it's all filled and working! I know it's not this simple but I can't find any real how-tos for installing a pump and using it to power a small waterfall (1-2 feet above water line). So my questions:

What do I need to make this setup?
How do I go about setting it up and getting it all running?
There seem to be a lot of waterfall filters would this be worth it for cycling or would I be able to just use the pump and plain waterfall to cycle?

If I am not mistaken, you need to have a filter as goldfish are big producer of waste.

 

[DragonGirl]

It's apparently not a necessary feature in ponds. When I search about filtration the conclusion that everyone seems to come to is "it can't hurt". My dad said his filter did more harm then good so I figure as long as I can cycle it and keep it understocked I should be ok.

 

[jlk]

Does your dad have a 200g fancy pond? Unless your building something to the same exact specs and stocking, do not make comparisons to whatever your dad has. I disagree that you do not need filtration. If this was a very large pond or had a natural inlet/outlet of water or was springfed, filtration would not be a 'must'. Keep in mind, with the exception of rainfall, our little ponds are artificial closed systems that depend on filtration and maintenance from us for them to viable, so filtration will be necessary especially on a small pond.

In your area, heat will be a larger concern than cold and maintaining ample aeration will be a must. Fountains can be as simple as you want them to be- a small submersible pump (@500gph) with a spray attachment can be placed in the middle as long as you have outdoor electric service. Home depot/Loews sell these for $100-150. Hope this helps a bit!

 

[DragonGirl]

Does your dad have a 200g fancy pond? Unless your building something to the same exact specs and stocking, do not make comparisons to whatever your dad has. I disagree that you do not need filtration. If this was a very large pond or had a natural inlet/outlet of water or was springfed, filtration would not be a 'must'. Keep in mind, with the exception of rainfall, our little ponds are artificial closed systems that depend on filtration and maintenance from us for them to viable, so filtration will be necessary especially on a small pond.

In your area, heat will be a larger concern than cold and maintaining ample aeration will be a must. Fountains can be as simple as you want them to be- a small submersible pump (@500gph) with a spray attachment can be placed in the middle as long as you have outdoor electric service. Home depot/Loews sell these for $100-150. Hope this helps a bit!

Thanks I'll look further into filters. I am worried about heat so it won't be in the sun all the time is 3 feet deep enough to insulate them?

How do I need to go about installing the pump and waterfall?

 

[Sharpchick]

I have a 275 gallon above ground pond. The number of fish you propose is way too much, especially for a notion that you don't need filtration.

You can build a bog filter for about half of what you'll pay for a standard pond filter off the shelf, as long as you're willing to invest a little sweat in it.

You may want to take a look at my build thread to get an idea for a bog filter: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f135/bog-filter-build-257677.html

I have 6 ryukins in my pond. Deliberately understocked, in case our heat gets really bad this summer. The most I'd add to my pond would be 4 more, and that's only because my bog filter is 60 gallons.

A properly constructed pond is delightful. Don't mess up that experience - for you or the fish - by overstocking it. All those pond photos you are seeing online with scads of fish swirling around have capacities you can't imagine, and were planned and tweaked for months before they were ever built.

 

[jlk]

I have a 275 gallon above ground pond. The number of fish you propose is way too much, especially for a notion that you don't need filtration.

You can build a bog filter for about half of what you'll pay for a standard pond filter off the shelf, as long as you're willing to invest a little sweat in it.

You may want to take a look at my build thread to get an idea for a bog filter: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f135/bog-filter-build-257677.html

I have 6 ryukins in my pond. Deliberately understocked, in case our heat gets really bad this summer. The most I'd add to my pond would be 4 more, and that's only because my bog filter is 60 gallons.

A properly constructed pond is delightful. Don't mess up that experience - for you or the fish - by overstocking it. All those pond photos you are seeing online with scads of fish swirling around have capacities you can't imagine, and were planned and tweaked for months before they were ever built.

Agreed- eight fancies is definitely overstocked. DIY filtration systems (non-bog) are another option if you do not want to purchase a standard pond filtration system. You just need some plumbing and electrical know how. For something this size though, an off the shelf filtration system would not be overly expensive.

Perhaps you can use the filtration system your dad is getting rid of if its of suitable size?

 

[DragonGirl]

Agreed- eight fancies is definitely overstocked. DIY filtration systems (non-bog) are another option if you do not want to purchase a standard pond filtration system. You just need some plumbing and electrical know how. For something this size though, an off the shelf filtration system would not be overly expensive.

Perhaps you can use the filtration system your dad is getting rid of if its of suitable size?

So I was under the impression that it was 20 gallons for the first and 10 for every one after that. By that rule I could stuff 18 fancies in a 200 gallon filtered pond. This is of course nuts and I'd never try that but just going off of that 8 seems conservative. I'm not at all trying to stuff as many fish in as possible. What would be a good number to put in? Or a good rule for ponds that I can go by?

I said I'd look further into filtration. If I do put a filter in I will be using the old one or one of the waterfall filter things, which brings me back to my questions.

Are these waterfall filters worthwhile?
I guess I also need a pump (gph?) and some type of waterfall box. What would be the best type to get?
How do I set it up?

If you have a link or something explaining how to set up these systems that would be equally helpful. Maybe I've been searching on the wrong things in the wrong places but I haven't found anywhere explaining the pump and waterfall systems.

The pond isn't dug yet I want to know how all this works before I even think about starting.

 

[Sharpchick]

If you haven't already, sign up for free at The Pond Forum.

Then, read at least 50 build threads in this forum, ask questions, and pm members who have done what you want to do.

Unfortunately, we have very few pond build threads here. So you want to read what's already been written, and have the opportunity to ask questions about it, regardless of where the information is.

 

[jlk]

In pond situations, your looking at realistically 25-50g per fancy. Or you can base it off of pond calculations of one inch of fish per 10g of water. So, based on this calculation, if you have a 6in fancy, your looking at 60g of water for one. I honestly would not put more than 4-5 in 200g pond. The 20/10g idea for fancies really only applies to tiny juveniles, not full grown adults in tanks. Ponds are a bit more complex due to temperature, surface area, oxygenation and other considerations.

My fountain sits in a granite brick 'box'- its just a pump with a sprayer attachment. It sits on a granite slab with granite bricks around it to keep it in place. Completely separate from the actual filtration system.

 

[Alspond]

If your primary interest is the goldfish you probably need a filter or a bigger pond.

I attached a basic plumbing diagram I used in a water garden talk.
There are many variations on this. The pump can be submersible, mine is external.
My pond filter is like a barrel water comes in the bottom, passes through a bio media, and comes put the top in a waterfall.

My primary interest is water plants.
I have a a 15x25 pond with a filter i don't run the filter when we go away for a couple of weeks and my goldfish are just fine but i have lots and lots of plants.
This pond is close to the house and the shubunkins, comets, and sawassas provide some entertainement but I have come to enjoy the flagfish more.
Male flagfish have territories every few feet and the defend their nests and flash their colors.

I have and 8x8 pond with no filter it has lots of plants, and breeding populations of gambusia and flag fish both of which thrive in ditches.
I have a 15x 30 pond with no filter it has a sand bottom inside a liner this pond has gambusia, flagfish, and grows sail fin mollies 4" plus has lots of plants

I also have 10 water garden pots mostly ceramic 3 and 4 feet in diameter. All have populations of gambusia and are full of plants and no filter. These pots hold 40-80 gallons of water minus what the dirt or pots displaces. Two pots have been going for 4-5 years all I do is thin the plants and put fertilizer tabs in during the summer and add water in the winter when it doesn't rain much. The water is clear and the gambusia have are going strong from the first ones I put in. Might be getting a little inbred

Last year I put 4 one inch gold fish in a 100 gallon water trough that had three potted water lilies. This was done to provide a little more safety from the kingfisher than my big pond and to be a quarantine. After five months I had 3 five inch goldfish which I moved to my larger pond. One died or was eaten.

Have fun