Bio Wheel vs Charcoal Filter
- Thread starter Diablos
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Fishyfanatic
Aquarium Advice Addict
A Bio-Wheel is attached to a hob filter as an additional form of filtration. The charcoal is placed inside of the hob filter. I myself do not use charcoal (Activated Carbon) in any of my filters. Instead I use sponges and ceramic rings. I also do not use a biowheel. IMO it doesn't do anything for the filter that I think is necessary. IMO the best hob filter is the AquaClear.
SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm not exactly what you mean by a charcoal filter, but most biowheel filters I have seen use cartridges that contain carbon.
HTH
HTH
Nice any other opinions for the best hob filter? My plan is too put in it and sump to do the filtering for the tank. Does that sound like a good idea? Also when I researched the Aquaclear filters they don't appear to be biowheel compatible.
*While searching I came across this - Penguin 330 BIO-Wheel, any opinions on this filter?*
*While searching I came across this - Penguin 330 BIO-Wheel, any opinions on this filter?*
MyCatsDrool
Aquarium Advice FINatic
- Joined
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I read your sump thread, and this one. As a freshy and a saltie, I have experience with sumps.
Let me give you some low down on the basics.
A sump is essentially a wet/dry filter. Because you are setting up a freshwater tank, I am going to give you freshwater information, rather than salt, because the setup is slightly different for the two.
For freshwater, a good bet for you would be to buy a premanufactured wet dry filter for your tank. You are already drilled so you will not need an overflow. You will not need any HOB type filter or any other filtration. The sump IS your filter.
I suggest you look into something like this:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?picGroupKey=10627
You will want to keep the bio-bale media in there, and possibly add a layer of filter floss. In the additional "empty" resovoir area, you will put your heater and other equipment (tho I don't know what else you would need for a FW sump setup).
Alternatively and, I encourage you to explore this route, Your setup would be perfect for a canister filter. They are easy to use, maintain and provide probably the best possible filtration for FW tanks. You could connect the plumbing for it directly to your predrilled overflow.
I suggest ehiem or filstar for a canister filter.
Avoid getting an HOB, and biowheels are really just eye candy that cost more money. You would be much wiser to spend on a wet dry or a canister.
Hope this helps
Let me give you some low down on the basics.
A sump is essentially a wet/dry filter. Because you are setting up a freshwater tank, I am going to give you freshwater information, rather than salt, because the setup is slightly different for the two.
For freshwater, a good bet for you would be to buy a premanufactured wet dry filter for your tank. You are already drilled so you will not need an overflow. You will not need any HOB type filter or any other filtration. The sump IS your filter.
I suggest you look into something like this:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?picGroupKey=10627
You will want to keep the bio-bale media in there, and possibly add a layer of filter floss. In the additional "empty" resovoir area, you will put your heater and other equipment (tho I don't know what else you would need for a FW sump setup).
Alternatively and, I encourage you to explore this route, Your setup would be perfect for a canister filter. They are easy to use, maintain and provide probably the best possible filtration for FW tanks. You could connect the plumbing for it directly to your predrilled overflow.
I suggest ehiem or filstar for a canister filter.
Avoid getting an HOB, and biowheels are really just eye candy that cost more money. You would be much wiser to spend on a wet dry or a canister.
Hope this helps
argh THANK YOU i feel like i have been dancing around waiting for someone to just give me the info... right on
Only other 4 questions I have than if I went with the premanufactured one...
How do I maintain it - ie clean it so as to make sure it is always filtering as optimul as when i first installed it.
I see you suggest to added more filter floss for a more through filtration.
Right i get that... I'm going to draw a freckin' picture to make sure I get this right
2. With a 70-75 gallon tank, what size sump should i get (gallon-wise)?
3. What size pump would i use for movin the water back up to the tank from the sump (also manufactures of recomended pumps would be nice)?
4. In case of power failure I need backup room in the sump so not to get
a flood - I will contact the tank maker to see how much water usually gathers.
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Edit
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Finally got the pic done this will help me understant lol
Only other 4 questions I have than if I went with the premanufactured one...
How do I maintain it - ie clean it so as to make sure it is always filtering as optimul as when i first installed it.
I see you suggest to added more filter floss for a more through filtration.
Right i get that... I'm going to draw a freckin' picture to make sure I get this right
2. With a 70-75 gallon tank, what size sump should i get (gallon-wise)?
3. What size pump would i use for movin the water back up to the tank from the sump (also manufactures of recomended pumps would be nice)?
4. In case of power failure I need backup room in the sump so not to get
a flood - I will contact the tank maker to see how much water usually gathers.
==============================================
Edit
============================================
Finally got the pic done this will help me understant lol
Fishyfanatic
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm glad you got this straightened out. I didn't know that you were referring to a sump.
Idealconcepts
Aquarium Advice Freak
Diablos – From your questions it looks like you are new to aquarium filtration. I don’t use carbon or charcoal in any of my tanks unless I am trying to remove medication from the water. I use the biowheels on all the filters that came with them. Is your tank drilled for a sump/wetdry already? Sumps/wetdrys are typically used on large aquariums people do use them on smaller ones, I seen one used on 50gal tank. They typically cost more, unless you can build one yourself which there are DIY articles, around $150 to $500 and higher plus you will need a pump so add in another $50 to $400. Sumps/wetdrys offer very good biological filtration due to the bacteria (that are on bio balls or other media) NOT being submerged in water, enabling it to use more oxygen to more efficiently process the Ammonia and Nitrite in your tank water. I’m fairly certain this is where the bio-wheel concept originated, since the wheel is suppose to house a lot of bacteria present in the filter, the wheel is exposed to the air, similar to a sump’s bio-balls, it is able to oxygen to more efficiently process Ammonia and Nitrite. There is still bacteria on the walls of the filter, the filter pad, etc but it is not receiving as much oxygen as the bacteria in the bio-wheel. The link below explains the nitrogen cycle process (which the bacteria are very oxygen hungry), with diagrams.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1979&articleid=2657
Since your tank is a 70-75gal and you are unfamiliar with a sump/wetdrty, and my assumption is your tank is not drilled, I would recommend going with one large canister filter or two large power filters (HOB), this route will also be cheaper than a sump/wetdry. You can probably go with either option and spend around $85 to $120. I would recommend for filters Rena XP3 can get it from Petsmart by printing out their price on line and have them price match it for around $105, or a larger Ehiem which will cost more, or go with two Emperor 400s or two AC 110’s (both can be priced matched at petsmart stores as well around $40 for either brand) or go with one Emp400 and one AC110.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1979&articleid=2657
Since your tank is a 70-75gal and you are unfamiliar with a sump/wetdrty, and my assumption is your tank is not drilled, I would recommend going with one large canister filter or two large power filters (HOB), this route will also be cheaper than a sump/wetdry. You can probably go with either option and spend around $85 to $120. I would recommend for filters Rena XP3 can get it from Petsmart by printing out their price on line and have them price match it for around $105, or a larger Ehiem which will cost more, or go with two Emperor 400s or two AC 110’s (both can be priced matched at petsmart stores as well around $40 for either brand) or go with one Emp400 and one AC110.
MyCatsDrool
Aquarium Advice FINatic
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Again, I encourage you to look into a canister filter instead of a wet/dry sump, as they are easier to setup and maintain and superior in my opinion for freshwater filtration.
To answer your questions:
Maintanence would include just rinsing out the biomedia (the white stuff) when it is filthy in used tank water after a water change.
20 gallons would be fine
pump will depend on how much turnover you want, the amount of angles in your plumbing diagram, the height from the sump base to the tank, and other factors. look online at SW sites for a pump/head calculator
and for your last question: unless you know what you are doing with plumbing a sump, and how to regulate the amount of overflow to the level of sump water, you are going to have problems. You can investigate auto shutoff for your pump, but they aren't to be trusted. basically, you fill your tank to full, let it drain into the sump until the tank stops flowing into the overflow area and the overflow drains completely. mark this spot on the sump as the high level, then fill your tank.
To answer your questions:
Maintanence would include just rinsing out the biomedia (the white stuff) when it is filthy in used tank water after a water change.
20 gallons would be fine
pump will depend on how much turnover you want, the amount of angles in your plumbing diagram, the height from the sump base to the tank, and other factors. look online at SW sites for a pump/head calculator
and for your last question: unless you know what you are doing with plumbing a sump, and how to regulate the amount of overflow to the level of sump water, you are going to have problems. You can investigate auto shutoff for your pump, but they aren't to be trusted. basically, you fill your tank to full, let it drain into the sump until the tank stops flowing into the overflow area and the overflow drains completely. mark this spot on the sump as the high level, then fill your tank.
To MyCatsDrool:
Because the tank is already drilled (or im assuming the pictures below represent a drilled tank correct?) I going to have to use a sump, but what you are suggesting is instead of using the wet/dry sump, you suggest I just use a sump that I can just through a canister filter in correct?
On determining the pump, how much water turnover would be approiate for a 70-75 gallon tank with cichlids and plant matter?
And on second thought is plumbing a sump difficult (cause obviously this can affect a the pump)? Or is as simple as straight from the tank to the sump and back up. Keep in mind I think I rather have to much power in case I screw something up. Tbh, I have seen more of the tank than this really...
(Thx for the patience... as you can see this is my first time working with a sump argh!)
After I wrote the above, I went back and re-read MyCatsDrool's first post. He suggested attaching the canister filter directly to the plumbing of the overflow. Would that than sit in the sump tank? Other wise I really don't understand how to maintain the filter without a huge mess of disconnecting it from the plumbing to clean it.
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EDIT
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WAIT I THINK I GOT IT... lol So a canister filter in itself acts somewhat like a mini sump... Right? Still the only question I have is if the overflow is much bigger the the capacity of the canister filter... I will have to put in a valve(that i can physically open and close) above the canister filter to insure that when i disconnect it to clean it all the extra water in the overflow doesn't come pouring out, right?
Because the tank is already drilled (or im assuming the pictures below represent a drilled tank correct?) I going to have to use a sump, but what you are suggesting is instead of using the wet/dry sump, you suggest I just use a sump that I can just through a canister filter in correct?
On determining the pump, how much water turnover would be approiate for a 70-75 gallon tank with cichlids and plant matter?
And on second thought is plumbing a sump difficult (cause obviously this can affect a the pump)? Or is as simple as straight from the tank to the sump and back up. Keep in mind I think I rather have to much power in case I screw something up. Tbh, I have seen more of the tank than this really...
(Thx for the patience... as you can see this is my first time working with a sump argh!)
After I wrote the above, I went back and re-read MyCatsDrool's first post. He suggested attaching the canister filter directly to the plumbing of the overflow. Would that than sit in the sump tank? Other wise I really don't understand how to maintain the filter without a huge mess of disconnecting it from the plumbing to clean it.
===============================================
EDIT
===============================================
WAIT I THINK I GOT IT... lol So a canister filter in itself acts somewhat like a mini sump... Right? Still the only question I have is if the overflow is much bigger the the capacity of the canister filter... I will have to put in a valve(that i can physically open and close) above the canister filter to insure that when i disconnect it to clean it all the extra water in the overflow doesn't come pouring out, right?
MyCatsDrool
Aquarium Advice FINatic
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Well, you can plumb a canister right to the in and outtakes of that tank. would be easier to maintain, no worrying about pump head levels and no need to do any special plumbing, which is why i am trying to steer you in that direction. Less room for error, and better filtration for freshwater.
You don't have to have a sump for that tank. You can definately use a canister.
as far as turnover, it is really up to you. i'd go for significantly less than needed for a SW setup....maybe 500gph.
and plumbing a sump can be difficult. it really depends on the stand, fittings, etc.
EDIT: in reply to your edit
1.) MCD is a girl =)
2.) With a canister you wouldn't have a sump. you would plumb your outtake and intake directly to the tank overflow.
You don't have to have a sump for that tank. You can definately use a canister.
as far as turnover, it is really up to you. i'd go for significantly less than needed for a SW setup....maybe 500gph.
and plumbing a sump can be difficult. it really depends on the stand, fittings, etc.
EDIT: in reply to your edit
1.) MCD is a girl =)
2.) With a canister you wouldn't have a sump. you would plumb your outtake and intake directly to the tank overflow.
Idealconcepts
Aquarium Advice Freak
Since its plumbed, might at weel take advantage of it. If you want to save money I've seen lots of DIY sumps, even on large tanks (+500gals).
For a pump recommendation - I would go with one pump at least running 500gph at the head your tank will be sitting at. Better to go higher maybe 700gph.
Just take your time and read up about sumps from different sources. That way you can get a better prespective on sumps and when you do yours you will be tons of knowledge on what you should do and shouldn't do.
For a pump recommendation - I would go with one pump at least running 500gph at the head your tank will be sitting at. Better to go higher maybe 700gph.
Just take your time and read up about sumps from different sources. That way you can get a better prespective on sumps and when you do yours you will be tons of knowledge on what you should do and shouldn't do.
MyCatsDrool
Aquarium Advice FINatic
- Joined
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IConcepts:
I'd totally agree if the OP knew more about filtration and plumbing and overflows. But for someone with their first tank, and a drilled one at that, my opinion is that building and plumbing a sump, and properly stocking it with media for freshwater will leave a lot of room for frustration and error. That is why i am suggesting to go with a canister. everything is pre-prepared, cheaper, and easier for a beginner to use.
HoweverDiablos, if you are bound and determined to build a sump or use a wet/dry, get googling. You need to learn what a sump really is, what a wet/dry really is, how to stock it with media properly for a freshie tank, and how to plumb.
I'd totally agree if the OP knew more about filtration and plumbing and overflows. But for someone with their first tank, and a drilled one at that, my opinion is that building and plumbing a sump, and properly stocking it with media for freshwater will leave a lot of room for frustration and error. That is why i am suggesting to go with a canister. everything is pre-prepared, cheaper, and easier for a beginner to use.
HoweverDiablos, if you are bound and determined to build a sump or use a wet/dry, get googling. You need to learn what a sump really is, what a wet/dry really is, how to stock it with media properly for a freshie tank, and how to plumb.
MyCatsDrool
Aquarium Advice FINatic
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you can. it certainly would help with cleanup
Idealconcepts
Aquarium Advice Freak
MyCatsDrool - I agree with you for a begininer a canister is alot easier to use. Out of all the my tanks I only have one sump, I have 7 total, and the only reason I have a sump is because it came with the tank and was plumbed for it. I use canisters and powerfilters on the other tanks and love them. I initially was pushing him or her to use a canister or power filters, but once I found out his tank was plumbed I figure what better way to learn than with an empty tank. I guess I look at it this way, if it is plumbed and he is determined enough to figure out the correct way to use one, all we can do is giving as much info as we can and have him make up his mind on what he wants to do. My big recommendation is test your sump outside for a few days to make sure nothing leaks before you taking it inside.
Diablos - what was your question about valves again?
Diablos - what was your question about valves again?
Ok, I set on gettin a canister filter. (The ease just does it for 8) )
Above some of you suggested I should get one that moves between 500 - 700 gph's, and to check out the Eheim and Filstar brands.
Here is what I could find that was the closest to 500-700 gph:
EHEIM 2260 LG CANISTER FILTER - Moves 500 Gallons per Hour
this is suggest for tank of a max gallon size of 400 gal?! Is that overkill for a 70-75 gallon tank?
The closest Filstar filter i could find for 500-700 gph was this
XP3 Filstar Canister Filter 350GPH
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Am I missing something or are these the filters ya'll were talking about
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The valve thing I was talking about was... the overflow in the tank holds much more water than the canister filter would. So if I unplugged the canister it to clean it... the rest of the overflow would pour out lol and damage and screw everything up. So putting a on/off pvc valve between the overflow and the canister it would allow me to close the water flow off.
While I temporarily clean the canister.
Above some of you suggested I should get one that moves between 500 - 700 gph's, and to check out the Eheim and Filstar brands.
Here is what I could find that was the closest to 500-700 gph:
EHEIM 2260 LG CANISTER FILTER - Moves 500 Gallons per Hour
this is suggest for tank of a max gallon size of 400 gal?! Is that overkill for a 70-75 gallon tank?
The closest Filstar filter i could find for 500-700 gph was this
XP3 Filstar Canister Filter 350GPH
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Am I missing something or are these the filters ya'll were talking about
==============================================
The valve thing I was talking about was... the overflow in the tank holds much more water than the canister filter would. So if I unplugged the canister it to clean it... the rest of the overflow would pour out lol and damage and screw everything up. So putting a on/off pvc valve between the overflow and the canister it would allow me to close the water flow off.
While I temporarily clean the canister.
Idealconcepts
Aquarium Advice Freak
Easy question first - Valve - as MyCatsDrool stated yes it would make things easier.
The 2260 is not over kill for your tank, especially if are overstocked before you can rehome some fish, aslo if I am correct the flow should slow down with media in the canister. You could also go with a possibly a step down if the gph was around 400.
There is a XP4 that has a rate flow of I believe 450gph when canister is empty. Read up on it as I'm not too sure on the reliability and satisfaction with people who have bought it.
The 2260 is not over kill for your tank, especially if are overstocked before you can rehome some fish, aslo if I am correct the flow should slow down with media in the canister. You could also go with a possibly a step down if the gph was around 400.
There is a XP4 that has a rate flow of I believe 450gph when canister is empty. Read up on it as I'm not too sure on the reliability and satisfaction with people who have bought it.
Ok I did some research on some of the Eheim products, here is the 2 it really boils down to. What do you think is it worth the extra features to go less gph?
Eheim Pro 2 2128
· One-action priming aid
· Auto-valve release (AVR)
· Maintainence indicator (MI)
· Media Basket
· Adjustable flow rate
· Self primer
· Also built in Heater!
Looking at 276 gph
Eheim Classic 2260
· Equiped with filter sponges
· Back wash
· Proven technology
Looking at 631 gph
Finally, after observing all the coupling/nipples on the canister filter for water coming in and going out it seems they look much smaller than the pvc plumbing coming to the filter from the tank. Is it going to be difficult to find fitting to will allow for water to travel seamlessly between the too? Or will I have to use all of clamps and such?
(BTW all this info is straight off Eheim website)
Eheim Pro 2 2128
· One-action priming aid
· Auto-valve release (AVR)
· Maintainence indicator (MI)
· Media Basket
· Adjustable flow rate
· Self primer
· Also built in Heater!
Looking at 276 gph
Eheim Classic 2260
· Equiped with filter sponges
· Back wash
· Proven technology
Looking at 631 gph
Finally, after observing all the coupling/nipples on the canister filter for water coming in and going out it seems they look much smaller than the pvc plumbing coming to the filter from the tank. Is it going to be difficult to find fitting to will allow for water to travel seamlessly between the too? Or will I have to use all of clamps and such?
(BTW all this info is straight off Eheim website)
