Black moor New fish owner

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Sdiamond808

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Jul 30, 2022
Messages
9
Was gifted a black moor goldfish last week unexpectedly. Never had a fish before.

After a week of being in the tank he just sits at the bottom and doesn't swim around. This has been going on a couple of days now.

At first I left the led lights on 24/7, which is my bad. Read that is wrong, so now I have the lights on a day night timer.

It's a young fish, only about 2 inches long. To start off and see how this works I got a 20 gallon tank, with filter and air pump.

I am using mineralized reverse osmosis water. General hardness is around 30ppm, which is all the minerals added back after purification. PH 6.5, nitrate measuring 0, water temp between 68-70 F.

I've been feeding once a day small amounts.

Any reason why he is just sitting on the bottom?
 
Ammonia and nitrite are most likely water parameters to be off. You havent mentioned those.

What do you understand about the nitrogen cycle?

Do you know how to cycle a tank?

Have you changed any water? Does that improve your fishes temperament?
 
Nitrate 2 and nitrate 3 were both 0. I think that's ammonia right?

I did a 50% water change yesterday, but still just hanging on the bottom
 
No.

Ammonia NH3.
Nitrite NO2-.
Nitrate NO3-.

It highly unlikely you are cycled, and not knowing your ammonia could be an issue. Until you are able to confirm your ammonia i would change some water daily. You need to cycle your tank. Do you know how to do this?

Any reason for the RO water? 30ppm GH is very soft water. Could be an issue with the fish being transferred from different water conditions to what you have in your tank. How did you acclimate the fish to your water?
 
I have an RO filter hooked up to my house so I just use that water. Online it said it was good for goldfish?

How do I cycle my tank?
 
30ppm is less than 2 degrees of hardness. Goldfish typically prefer 4 to 8 degrees of hardness.

Its not just about water hardness though. If your fish just went straight from harder water into what would be considered very soft water the shock would cause a fish to act up.

Are you remineralising your RO water or is that what it comes out of the tap?

Ill post something on how to cycle a tank with fish in it.
 
To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.

A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.

Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.

You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.

If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.

Feed lightly to start with. Daily as much as is eaten in 2 minutes, or as much as is eaten in 3 minutes every 2 days. You can increase to full feedings if you are confident your parameters aren’t getting too elevated too quickly and water changes don’t become a daily thing.

Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.

Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.

If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.

Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.

Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.

Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.

You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.

A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.

A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.

Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.
 
3 things that are cause for concern. Probably a bit of all 3.

1. You arent cycled. In an uncycled tank ammonia will just build up to toxic levels. Even at nontoxic levels it could be stressing your fish.
2.Your water is very soft. While i wouldnt normally recommend messing around too much with water chemistry, at less than 2 degrees of water hardness i would look at increasing that. Especially as you are using RO and can remineralise to whatever levels you want.
3. We havent determined how you acclimated your fish. Its highly unlikely your fish was bred and raised in such soft water and taking it from one to another without a very robust acclimating process will be very stressful.

I would put money on your issues being mostly 2 and 3. But number 1 needs to be addressed to avoid longer term issues.

I would gradually get the water hardness up. You will likely be changing water regularly while cycling your tank, so gradually increase the remineralising as you go forward.

I will also give some information on carbonate hardness (KH) even though you havent mentioned it. Lets assume your KH is similar to your GH. The nitrogen cycle will use up KH to turn ammonia into nitrate. Roughly 7ppm KH is needed to turn 1ppm ammonia into nitrate. If you have 30ppm KH that will be gone pretty quickly. A fully grown goldfish can easily put 1ppm ammonia in the water of a 20g tank every day. That 30ppm would be gone after 4 days after which your cycle can no longer process out ammonia and your water can no longer buffer the natural acidifying that goes on in a tank, so your pH would crash.
 
OK wow. This is a lot.

So I did not acclimate. The fish was brought to me in a bag, so I just put it in the new tank. Will they eventually acclimate?

The kh was about 40.

So basically add some beneficial bacteria and until that works keep changing out water to reduce amonia?
 
Only time will tell if the shock of the change in water type is fatal or not. If it doesnt die it should recover over time. I dont see things improving too much with the water being so soft though.

Your tank will eventually cycle, although with the caveat that 40ppm KH is still very low, will quickly run out, and your cycle them wont function without sufficient KH. Water changes will replenish it if the water going in has KH, but unless you want to do water changes every 3 or 4 days long term i would look at increasing the amount going in with your remineralising. Adding bacteria "might" help speed up how long it takes to cycle.
 
Last edited:
I can't control the re mineralization. Would I be better using tap water with conditioner?
 
Why cant you control your remineralising? Arent you just adding mineralising salts to your RO water? Just add more. Are you sure this is a RO filter and not a water softener?

Presumably there is something wrong with your tap water or you wouldn't have a filter on there.
 
It's a reverse osmosis filter that goes through a remineralization filter as the last stage to add small amounts. I'm not manually adding anything, its its own filter.

Don't know that there is anything "wrong" with my tap water. It's city water so it's full of chlorine and who knows what else.

I guess I could manually add minerals? Never thought about it. What could i add that would be beneficial for goldfish?
 
Drove to an aquarium store to get a real water test done and they said the water is good and ready for fish. No ammonia.

No clue why he is just sitting at the bottom. The aquarium store suggested maybe the fish is not acclimated to the water?
 
As you arent manually adding back your minerals i would either get some crushed coral or cuttlefish bone and add it into your filtration. These are sources of calcium carbonate and will increase both your GH and KH by slowly disolving in the water as it passes through your filtration.

Or if there is no reason to not use your mains supply water you could use that with a water conditioner.
 
Back
Top Bottom