Can't keep plecos alive!

[barrettd]

About five weeks ago, my 2 1/2 old tank was starting to show a little brown algae. I thought it was time to get some kind of algae eater, and opted for a Pleco. The first week or so, he did a terrific job eating the algae from the leaves, glass, etc. and I was also dropping him wafers once the algae started getting less and less. After about 2 weeks, my wife and I left town for four days. When we got back, brown algae was all over my tank, but all the fish seemed fine. All except the Pleco. He was just hanging out at the front of the tank near the bottom. He stayed in that kind of mood for about a week, when I decided maybe I needed to add another to get his spirits up? I went back to the LFS, told him about what had happened to the pleco I bought from him (also got an Opaline Gourami, which is still doing great, and a clown loach, which actually didn't survive my vacation, I just remembered). He basically said, "Yeah, plecos are lazy." I don't get a good vibe from him anyway, but I buy another pleco.

I take this pleco home and eventually add him to my tank (no, I don't have a QT, and am sure I will get one soon). He does fine for a day or so, over which time the older pleco finally dies. After I have the new pleco for about a week, I notice he starts to get really pale and isn't moving around much. One day I come home from work, check him out and he's moving, and about an hour later he's dead.

2 plecos in a week have now died. I've been doing my water changes, my levels don't seem to be affecting the other fish (I'll list all info at the end), so I don't know what's wrong. That was about 2 weeks ago. Today, I decided to give it another try. I thought I'd try a different store since my LFS's plecos had both died, so I went to Petsmart, despite the horror stories I've read/heard. I picked out a pleco, brought him home, introduced him to the tank, and now, 5 hours later, he's turning pale and moving erratically in a very small area. He's getting really still, I can't tell if he's breathing, and my 2 gouramis are hovering like vultures, waiting for him to die. I'm pretty certain he'll be dead in the morning.

My big question is why are they dying, and my small question is what other good options are there to control my brown algae? The LFS owner's first suggestion was "I've got some great chemicals..." and I didn't want to go there yet.

My levels:

Hardness - 15 drops or 268.5 (if I've done the math right?!)
Nitrates - 5.0
Nitrites - 0
Ammonia - .25
pH - 8

My fish:

30 gallon tank
10 neon tetras I've had from the beginning
1 gold gourami
1 opaline gourami
1 dying pleco

I do 25% water changes every two weeks, change my filter every month and my lights are on approximately 6 hours each day. I feed them flakes and dried worms. My other fish are doing great, it's just the plecos that are dying.

I'm desperate to figure out this problem, and I haven't found much help searching the archives.

Thanks, sincerely, to any help in advance!

BD

 

[poppab02]

Well, the starting point is that your pH is at 8. My guess is those tetras have slowly been acclimated to the pH over the years you've had them and that's why the haven't died because really tetras shouldn't be able to withstand a that high of a pH they'd do much better in neutral water. The Gourami's actually can stand a pH of up to 8 but plecos can't. Why is your pH at 8? Is that the natural pH of your water or is there something in your tank or filter that you use to raise the pH?

I'm actually very surprised that with a pH like that the plecos lasted a week, much less 3 weeks. They should've been dead within a few hours like your latest one. Basically, probably any fish that you try to add to a tank with that pH is going to die because it's really not suitable for many of the types of fish you regulary see at the fish store (besides African Cichlids which aren't suitable for your tank).

I'm glad though that you didn't start throwing chemicals into the tank. That would be a huge mistake.

Basically you have a choice now, either leave the pH alone and don't add anymore fish or you need to figure out why your pH is so high and then SLOWLY lower it. It is very important to slowly lower it and not just throw in one of those neutral pH tabs you can find at the local pet store otherwise you are going to kill all the fish already in your tank. Basically you need to test the pH of the water you are using to fill the tank to see if that is the source of the problem(I think you need to test the water after it's been left out overnight in a cup or some other container). If that isn't it then it's something in the tank or filter, in which case you are going to have to list everything in the tank and filter so that somebody can help determine what it is.

That's all the help I can give for now, let us know what you decide.

 

[vega]

BTW the ideal pH for tetra and pleco would be 6.8-7.

 

[barrettd]

The PH is the natural PH of my water. It's been 8 since the beginning (about 2 1/2 months ago), and the gouramis and tetras have been fine in it. The latest pleco is still alive this morning, and sucking on the glass.

I thought it might be too high for the tetras at the beginning, but I thought if they're fine in it, it would be better to leave it than start changing things.

Now that I know about the pleco problem with PH, I want to fix it. I'm guessing aside from treating the water in the tank I should also have a plan for water changes?

Again, any help here would be great. Thanks!

BD

 

[Menagerie]

I'm not so sure the problem is solely the pH. If the other fish that like lower pH are doing well, there is no reason the plecos are suffering. I have a common in with my Africans and he is thriving. I have also added Rubber Lips to various tanks and they do just fine. The fact that it took so long for the fish to die makes me suspect the fish were ill to start with. For *fun* ask the Petsmart and the LFS what pH their tanks are kept at. For example, Calgary water is hard with a pH of around 8. All the tanks at the LFSs are about 7.8-8.
Do you have any natural wood in your tank? Plecos do like to eat it and can hide around it. If you do want to lower the pH naturally, natural wood will help over time and you can add peat to your filter.
Please keep updating this thread so we can try to figure out what's going on in that tank.
Is there salt in your water?

 

[barrettd]

I do not have any natural wood in my tank. I thought about getting some when I initially bought the pleco, but didn't research the effects on my tank. I only knew that plecos liked driftwood, and I didn't want to throw off the rest of my fish.

There is no salt in my water, at least none that I've added.

If I add driftwood to my tank, will the other fish hate it, or will they appreciate a lower PH? Also, will it lower the PH at a rate the other fish can handle?

Thanks!

BD

 

[Menagerie]

As natural wood decays, it lowers the pH v e r y s l o w l y . Nothing to worry about. The other fish probably won't care, they may even like it.
I was just wondering about the salt since some plecos cannot stand it.

 

[barrettd]

So perhaps I should add some driftwood, let it do its thing, and then add a pleco when my PH gets down near the 7 range? Will the driftwood be enough to do this, and how long should that usually take?

BD

 

[vega]

do your add any coral or shell as deco in your tank? These will lower the pH as well. The driff wood will take sometimes to lower your pH. add peats in your filter definately would help. if your pipe water's pH is 8, i am concern that everytimes you change your tank water the pH would swing which is a big no no for delicate fish like tetra.

hth

 

[barrettd]

do your add any coral or shell as deco in your tank? These will lower the pH as well. The driff wood will take sometimes to lower your pH. add peats in your filter definately would help. if your pipe water's pH is 8, i am concern that everytimes you change your tank water the pH would swing which is a big no no for delicate fish like tetra.

hth

Would a 25% water change cause a big swing, or should I do smaller, more frequent water changes?

BD

 

[Keeper]

have you medicated the tank recently. I do know that some meds are not good for plecs and if any were left in the tank from a previous medication that may be the problem. PH should not be a factor...mine hovers around 7.6 - 7.8 and I have a plec in almost all tanks. What type of plecos are you buying?

 

[barrettd]

I have not medicated the tank. I use NovAqua and AmQuel when I do water changes, and I use Stresscoat when adding new fish.

I'm buying the Hypostomus Plecostomus. They're the only plecostomus I've been able to find locally.

 

[Keeper]

Not to sound like an a**. Do you acclimatize the plecs properly or do you just dump them in. If the latter is true then the plecos are going to go through a huge change in water conditions and ultimately the stress of the change can cause death. Not to sound too harsh though and not to question your fish keeping abilities!

 

[barrettd]

I float them for 15-20 minutes, and slowly add a little tank water to the bag prior to adding them to the tank. I'm assuming this is OK, as it's worked for my other fish. I've only been at this "hobby" since the 1st of April, so please don't assume I know exactly what I'm doing...

BD

 

[Keeper]

Sounds about right. I can't think of anything that hasn't already been covered. Maybe just a string of bad luck (we all get it). Good luck and I hope all works out well. Sorry I couldn't be of more help

 

[Blackpearl]

How about water temperature? Pl3co prefers warm water > 78.
I've done bad things to my pl3co, like using medication that aren't good for scaleless fish (yes I read the label, but was an idiot to realize that pl3co is scaleless) But it's been alive for 3 months in my tank and still active.

 

[barrettd]

Water temp is 77-78 degrees.

I'm going to try the driftwood. I know it's not an immediate fix, but maybe I can lower the PH for future plecos.

 

[Menagerie]

do your add any coral or shell as deco in your tank? These will lower the pH as well.

This will raise the pH and hardness.

*edit* I think, my mind just went blank 8O

 

[vega]

Ops typo mistake. I mean the the coral and shell raise the pH. Sorry.

 

[vega]

Probabily you can do a small partial water change frequantly or get the water pH to 7 in a container before adding to your tank. But its quit time consuming and troublesome for your water changing in long run.

FYI, the fish will be more healthy in a tank with water that slighly out of their usual chemical range then the constant changing in the water chemical level. (eg. pH, NO2)

Check the with lfs what's their tak pH. probabily the pleco is already hurt by the pH swing when it reach your lfs from the fish supplier.

What you might able to do is for the next few weeks make sure the water is pH of tank is drop to approx 7 via driff wood in your tank and peats filtering.

Check the water's pH swing everytimes you change the water.

If not too much swing (eg. before change pH 7.2, after change 7.4).
Add pleco in when your tank water is pH is ~7.2, wait for a week n do water change with treated water that pH ~7.4 for next few weeks but every times use lesser and lesser treated water and hopefully the pleco may able to adjust the increase pH over the period.

Bear in mind, pH swing definately will be a issue everytimes you change the tank water you will be facing as your local water supply is 8 and your tank's is approx 7.

Another way round is change the tank setup to the one suitable to your local water condition, which in this case probabily a tanganikan cichlid setup.

HTH