Cloudy Water Has Returned - At My Wits' End...Is Purigen the Answer?

[Osage_Winter]

Have you tried sucking on the tube to start the siphon?

Yes.

That's the real sure-fire way to do it. Just gotta be quick to get it out or your mouth.

Not even gonna reply to that one out of fear of sounding absolutely disgraceful...

Ha! Just kiddin' Floyd....

If I remember right, that siphon has a ball valve inside the blue part so you're supposed to be able to stick it underwater, lift it out, the water will stay in the large part, and you shake it up an down to get the water in the line.

Sucking always works. If it doesn't, you have a defective ball valve. Get a plain old one without the ball valve.

I guess I'm having a difficult time understanding why your vac isn't working. If there is a break in the blue plastic then it will break the siphon and you will never get it to work.

I know the blue part you're talking about, but don't know if it's defective or what; I guess we're just not doing it right.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What happens when you start it by sucking on the tube? Does it start flowing, then just stop? Does the water get all the way to the end of the tube at the bucket end, getting all the air out of the hose, or does the flow start to slow, trickle, and then drain out (and you then will see the 'air line' inch up the tube to the tank water level)?

 

[Osage_Winter]

What happens when you start it by sucking on the tube? Does it start flowing, then just stop? Does the water get all the way to the end of the tube at the bucket end, getting all the air out of the hose, or does the flow start to slow, trickle, and then drain out (and you then will see the 'air line' inch up the tube to the tank water level)?

Don't remember what happens, to be completely honest...

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Syphons are a really really simple bits of kit. They may have different attachments on the end and fancy ways to start them, but they just amount to a plastic tube.

Just put one end into the water, then the other end in a bucket (below the water level of course, preferably the top of the bucket should be below the bottom of the tank level).

Just suck the end of the tube until you see the water coming over the side of the tank, then let go and put it in the bucket, you really can't wrong.

I've been doing it that way for over a year and I've managed to get water in my mouth about a couple of times at most.

 

[Khalix]

You linked the small one. Is that the size you currently have, or do you have the larger one? Just curious because it is a lot harder to get my medium or large one going even though my tank is deep. The small one I always just put under the water completely, get all the air bubbles out of the suction end, tilt it upside down out of the water, as soon as it starts flowing down the hose I dunk it back under and voila.

I keep goldfish too so I know how frustrating it can be if you have to use other means to do pwc's. Someone broke my old siphon so I had to do the small bucket method at one point and boy did it kill me! I have to do so many more pwc's with them than my tropical community, but once you're able to get a good method the water definitely does clear up and they are very enjoyable to keep(though not many people seem to like them much).

Wish you lived close, I'd just come over and play with the siphon!

Also, have you went to a local pet store, chain or otherwise, and asked for help with it? I know it may seem kinda weird to ask that kind of thing, but I give demonstrations on them all the time at work! I'd much rather take a moment to show them how to do it than have them come in with dead fish or a water sample with everything through the roof!

Guy yesterday came in with the worst water I've ever seen! He had no clue about the pwc's. Hopefully the employee's there aren't total jerks about it.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Syphons are a really really simple bits of kit. They may have different attachments on the end and fancy ways to start them, but they just amount to a plastic tube.

Just put one end into the water, then the other end in a bucket (below the water level of course, preferably the top of the bucket should be below the bottom of the tank level).

Just suck the end of the tube until you see the water coming over the side of the tank, then let go and put it in the bucket, you really can't wrong.

I've been doing it that way for over a year and I've managed to get water in my mouth about a couple of times at most.

We tried this exact method, and just can't get the water to flow into the bucket...

 

[Osage_Winter]

You linked the small one. Is that the size you currently have, or do you have the larger one? Just curious because it is a lot harder to get my medium or large one going even though my tank is deep. The small one I always just put under the water completely, get all the air bubbles out of the suction end, tilt it upside down out of the water, as soon as it starts flowing down the hose I dunk it back under and voila.

No, we actually own the large one -- I just linked that for product reference.

I keep goldfish too so I know how frustrating it can be if you have to use other means to do pwc's. Someone broke my old siphon so I had to do the small bucket method at one point and boy did it kill me! I have to do so many more pwc's with them than my tropical community, but once you're able to get a good method the water definitely does clear up and they are very enjoyable to keep(though not many people seem to like them much).

I never understood the people that didn't like at least fancies; I think they're so peaceful and graceful to watch swim, and they're not nerve-wracking predators that intimidate everything around them. I love them.

Are you sure the goldfish water definitely clears up?

Wish you lived close, I'd just come over and play with the siphon!

Hey -- I'm married! Enough of that!

Also, have you went to a local pet store, chain or otherwise, and asked for help with it? I know it may seem kinda weird to ask that kind of thing, but I give demonstrations on them all the time at work! I'd much rather take a moment to show them how to do it than have them come in with dead fish or a water sample with everything through the roof!

Yeah, I did that at the local PetSmart where I bought this, and the kid that helped us was completely and utterly useless...he was slurring like he just came off a six day drinking binge, so it was completely unproductive.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

We tried this exact method, and just can't get the water to flow into the bucket...

Strange, how big is the pipe? Mine is maybe half an inch across, doesn't give a great flow but it's enough.

 

[Khalix]

Mine is crystal clear, though it's been running for over a year now and I've maintained a good balance of pwc's throughout. I had one mini cycle about 8 months ago when my fiance tried to help me out and he threw away my old filter and did a pretty large water change.. had to teach him better since then. Since then with the siphoning and not throwing out filters until they're falling apart(and even then letting them run side by side for as much beneficial bacteria I can get seeded into it)I've had a lot of luck.

I'm sorry the employee was useless. I know I don't always know the best answer or solution to every customers problems but I try hard to find out the answer for them if possible, and generally if not I'll go home and research it once it's brought up. I even keep a notebook with me for frequently asked questions. Haha. I am such a nerrrd.

No, we actually own the large one -- I just linked that for product reference.



I never understood the people that didn't like at least fancies; I think they're so peaceful and graceful to watch swim, and they're not nerve-wracking predators that intimidate everything around them. I love them.

Are you sure the goldfish water definitely clears up?



Hey -- I'm married! Enough of that!



Yeah, I did that at the local PetSmart where I bought this, and the kid that helped us was completely and utterly useless...he was slurring like he just came off a six day drinking binge, so it was completely unproductive.

 

[Osage_Winter]

I don't know, ladies and gents...the water doesn't seem to want to clear (it's not so cloudy you can't see anything however; it's just a subtle cloudy mist, to be honest) so it seems like something I am going to have to live with due to the fact I am keeping goldfish and that I don't have any canister-style filters running, only two HOBs...

Getting used to looking at water like this, however, for as long as we keep this tank, is not going to be an easy thing.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

I don't know, ladies and gents...the water doesn't seem to want to clear (it's not so cloudy you can't see anything however; it's just a subtle cloudy mist, to be honest) so it seems like something I am going to have to live with due to the fact I am keeping goldfish and that I don't have any canister-style filters running, only two HOBs...

Getting used to looking at water like this, however, for as long as we keep this tank, is not going to be an easy thing.

Don't give up just yet, there will be a solution to be found!

 

[Osage_Winter]

Don't give up just yet, there will be a solution to be found!

Thanks for helping me keep the faith, Mark...

It's just that I have heard from so many people already that I need to just "sit on my thumbs" and wait this out, and it will eventually clear...

And it has not.

 

[bluerose]

What about the basic siphons is leaking? Is the "slosh method" of starting them the problem? If so, there is a much easier way. Put the siphon in the water along with 8ish" of the hose. Tip it up to release the air bubbles, then lift the siphon out of the water until the water in the hose starts running. Quickly get the end of the siphon back into the water.

It takes a bit of practice to get the timing right, but this works FAR better than sloshing everything about for twenty minutes... As long as you "seal" the end of the siphon by sticking it back under the water quickly enough, the suction effect will work and will continue until the seal is broken. (It's like when you have a straw in a cup full of liquid-- put your finger on the end of the straw and lift it up, you'll still have liquid in the straw; release your finger, the straw empties.)

Hopefully, you should be able to just have a couple of 5gal buckets, start the siphon, run it into one bucket, swap it into the other, and then end the siphon. You might need to devise some sort of clip to hold the hose to the tank and/or bucket (I want to say mine came with one?).

 

[Khalix]

Thanks for helping me keep the faith, Mark...

It's just that I have heard from so many people already that I need to just "sit on my thumbs" and wait this out, and it will eventually clear...

And it has not.

I don't think you need to wait it out. Mainly we need to find a solution for your problem with siphons. Without this I'm not sure it would clear up, to be honest. Even if you continue the method of removing cups and whatnot.. you're still leaving a fair amount of waste in the gravel which certainly doesn't help the cloudiness.

I don't know about this website as far as ordering goes, but perhaps a vacuum like this one might make it easier. You basically just squeeze it a few times from what I've heard of them. JBJ Gravel Vacuum Cleaner + Auto Siphon Pump - AquaCave

At least worth a shot? Good luck. I'm going to shush now.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think the problem is a defective ball valve on the Top-Fin siphon. It can restrict the flow. You need to spend $5 and get a different siphon. Go with this one

siphon kleen - Google Search

You can find it at any pet store, it is as basic as you can get. If you can't get this product to work, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Osage_Winter]

I don't think you need to wait it out. Mainly we need to find a solution for your problem with siphons. Without this I'm not sure it would clear up, to be honest. Even if you continue the method of removing cups and whatnot.. you're still leaving a fair amount of waste in the gravel which certainly doesn't help the cloudiness.

I don't know about this website as far as ordering goes, but perhaps a vacuum like this one might make it easier. You basically just squeeze it a few times from what I've heard of them. JBJ Gravel Vacuum Cleaner + Auto Siphon Pump - AquaCave

At least worth a shot? Good luck. I'm going to shush now.

You're telling me there is a chance the water will never clear up?

And I've heard that it's actually bad to vaccum the gravel all that much because beneficial bacteria are growing on it -- is this not true?

 

[Osage_Winter]

I think the problem is a defective ball valve on the Top-Fin siphon. It can restrict the flow. You need to spend $5 and get a different siphon. Go with this one

siphon kleen - Google Search

You can find it at any pet store, it is as basic as you can get. If you can't get this product to work, I don't know what to tell you.

Thanks Floyd; I don't believe this was available at my PetSmart, but let me check out the link...

May be that I'm simply not qualified -- in the least -- to operate one of these, and thus I am just never going to have clean water, regardless of whether or not the fish seem to be thriving and "doing okay."

 

[becrac16]

I'm just going to say my piece and leave it at that...

The water will not clear without water changes. There is no magic fix, at least without the knowledge that you do water changes often. Although the fish may be looking ok, they could be sick without visible cues until it's almost too late. Vacuuming gravel is a must for messy fish like goldfish. You may change out the water, but there is still poo in the gravel and that is whats making the water cloudy even after changing out water. If you're unwilling to figure out what is wrong with your gravel vacuum, and for other reasons can't do water changes, you really can't keep goldfish. Its just that simple. Sorry.

 

[Khalix]

Well now, I never said that, just trying to help figure out alternatives because I'm no expert and can only offer basic things I have done and had success with. It's been a fairly agreed upon topic where a lot of my friends and I disagree in varying ways about methods and we all swear ours is the way to go. But it doesn't always seem to work for everyone.. except for key things like water changes, etc. I apologize if I'm somehow disheartening? Was just trying to puzzle out the issues with the siphon.

You're telling me there is a chance the water will never clear up?


And I've heard that it's actually bad to vaccum the gravel all that much because beneficial bacteria are growing on it -- is this not true?

As far as vacuuming the gravel goes, I've never had an issue. But I don't do all 3 steps of maintenance on the same day, either. I do water changes at least once weekly. Occasionally I will split it up into smaller water changes. The day I do filter maintenance for any grime on the media I don't vacuum at all, just siphon. The next time I will carefully vacuum any I can without disturbing the bottom or inhabitants overly much but I don't touch my filter since that's where a good portion of my beneficial bacteria is hiding out. Also, even with any amount of beneficial bacteria growing in the gravel, it also needs to be moved around occasionally anyway.

Not sure if I'm coming across wrong or something?

 

[Osage_Winter]

I'm just going to say my piece and leave it at that...

The water will not clear without water changes. There is no magic fix, at least without the knowledge that you do water changes often. Although the fish may be looking ok, they could be sick without visible cues until it's almost too late. Vacuuming gravel is a must for messy fish like goldfish. You may change out the water, but there is still poo in the gravel and that is whats making the water cloudy even after changing out water. If you're unwilling to figure out what is wrong with your gravel vacuum, and for other reasons can't do water changes, you really can't keep goldfish. Its just that simple. Sorry.

Well, then, that's it -- after all the money I have poured into the equipment, the burned carpeting of our BRAND NEW house, the spilling water onto everything trying to do water changes, the staining of the Rid-Ich onto all my tank's surfaces, tubing and ornaments not to mention the blue dye getting all over our carpets...I've had it. And perhaps this sentiment from this member above pretty much sums it up; I cannot keep these fish -- probably any tropicals for that matter -- because I just cannot vaccum this gravel in the way it needs to be and I refuse to believe that TWO filters running on a 60 gallon tank, one of them being an AquaClear 110, cannot handle at least some of these hazy water issues...

Well, that's it folks -- my fish APPEAR very healthy and happy, but I am going to have to find something to do with them because I WILL NOT flush or kill them prematurely...ABSOLUTELY NOT. So, as I decide how to strip this tank down and get some of my investment back with returning some items, I have to find a home for the goldfish...