Cloudy Water

[toddwess]

Okay, I have a 40 gallon tank with 3 bala sharks, 2 chineese algae eaters, 5 neon tetras, 2 red plattys and one plecko.

I've had cloudy water for three weeks now.

I've done two 50% water changes in the past two weeks.

I've tried "Acu-Clear" product to no aviail.

The tank is only about 2 months old - what could it be?

Can you use "too much" of the tap water conditioner?

HELP!

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Gunnie]

Todd,
What are your ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate readings? My tank is cloudy when my biological filter is messed up. Do you know for sure your tank ever completely cycled? Just some questions that will help the cycle masters get your tank running right!

 

[sumphead]

bacterial blooms are kinda' common in newer setups as your habitat for bacteria (both good and bad) get setup. Most of the time bacterial blooms subside on thier own. Once when setting up a newer freshwater tank what i thought was a bacterial bloom was actually an algea bloom that wasn't green because of the lighting. Grab a clear glass and fill it up and look at the water in that. If it has a green tint then it not bacterial. If it looks clear then it's definately a bacterial bloom. If it fails to subside in another week or so a broadspectrum antibiotic will clear it up followed by another large water change. Most bacterial blooms aren't detrimental to your fish. If your neons are still kicking then it's nothing to be affriad of. Good luck.

R

 

[Neuve]

Just a little something about the use of chems. Most people here recommend not using chems beacause maybe you could get into deeper trouble. The most common and troubling one is killing all your cycling bacteria... Thats the prob with antibiotics and water clearing chems...

Most of the time bacterial blooms subside on thier own

IMO yes, you should check wether your tank is cycling (if it hasnt been interrupted), or if you have a bacterial/algae bloom.

Maybe after you check for ammonia, ites and ates, and analize your water and tell us what it looks like, we can help you out without having to go trough too much trouble.

And yeah, as reefnewb said, if your neons are thriving without any signs of stress or sickness, theres really nothing to worry about

 

[dralarms]

If it's a green water problem, then it's an alge bloom, try covering the tank to block out the light for a couple of days.

 

[toddwess]

Todd,
What are your ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate readings? My tank is cloudy when my biological filter is messed up. Do you know for sure your tank ever completely cycled? Just some questions that will help the cycle masters get your tank running right!

Well, I'm terribly ashamed, because I have not been keeping track of the Amonia because I've been using amonia absorbing crystals in the filter. I took them out last night and today, my amonia was well over 8.0 (I know, I know)

so, I guess the tank is not cycled properly. Should I change out water, or add chemicals or just let it ride out?

Thanks,
Todd

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Definitely do a great big water change (50%...don't gravel vac, though)...8ppm of ammonia can kill your fish...gotta dilute it ASAP.

The problem with using using ammonia absorbers (and most other additives/chemicals) is that they don't allow the formation of a strong biological filter (which you're seeing in your tank). A strong biological filter is really the best (and easiest, once you get through the cycle) way to keep your tank stable.

You're going to have to cycle your tank now, without the ammonia insert, the good ol' fashioned way...lots of water changes, and even more patience.

If you have any questions, feel free to post 'em...we're here to help.

Good luck!

 

[toddwess]

But, I started with bio-spira. how did this happen?

What if I put the fish in a separate tank, and swap all of the water?

Todd

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

When you use inserts (or additives) that remove ammonia for the water, you seriously inhibit the growth of nitrifying bacteria. If there isn't anything for them to "eat", they don't grow. So the bacteria in the bio-spira probably died off, because there was insufficient ammonia for them to flourish.

Don't move your fish, that can stress them out even further. Mostly you just need to get the ammonia levels down....but you have to leave some in there so you can get those bacterial colonies growing!

 

[dralarms]

I would recommend with levels that high to do a 75% change out, I have started my 55 gal draining and replaced water as I went until the levels were low enough to satisfy me. (that was alot of water).

 

[Allivymar]

What sort of water conditioner do you use to treat the water before adding it? Ones which "convert/remove" ammonia can cause false results on Nessler ammonia tests. That can be part of the prob, both in terms of the high readings as well as the poorly established nitrifying bacterial colony, as converted ammonia (its converted to a non-toxic form, hence the readings on the Nessler tests) is not readily available to the good bacteria.

The Bio-Spira should have cycled the tank immediately. However, as sweets said, removing the ammonia removed their food source. Nitrifying bacteria colonies only grow to the amount of food (ammonia/nitrites) available, so if the food source was decreased, the colony size was also decreased. The opposite also holds; more food (ammonia/nitrites) means a larger colony although it takes a bit to catch up. Is why its recommended not to add a lot of fish at once (unless one uses Bio-Spira) as there will likely be an ammonia spike; takes a bit for the bacteria to catch up.

 

[toddwess]

Thanks for the info, Allivymar.

I use a product called "Tap Water Conditioner"

I use 1 drop per gallon, and pour it in.

Should I be doing more?

I'm thinking I should do a 75% water change and then re-add bio-spira. Does that make sense? What's weird, is that all the fish are doing just fine.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Neuve]

You could add some bio spira now, definetely. Im guessing it was your amrid insert that killed your bacteria... (starved em to death lol)

Try not to use any chem's, just use dechlor for your water and let it sit for a day so chlor evaporates and doesnt kill your bacteria.

Give a lot of aeration to your tank so your fish dont asfixiate. Ive read salt prevents poisoning, maybe you could try a little with every water change. Just a little.

Ill keep my fingers crossed for your bala sharks and neons.

 

[madasafish]

Phew! Glad Alliv intervened with that conditioner remark. Trust me, your neons wouldn't be alive if your ammonia levels were over 8. *chuckle* So, don't completly freak out about it (I might be if I thought my ammonia was over 8!)! The others are giving some good general advice, too.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any tests that accurately represent ammonia levels when a water conditioner is used. You might consider using "TLC" (I think it stands for Tender Loving Conditioning) for water detoxing if you can get it. It's readily available in NYC, and I'm sure you can get it online. I use it and have never had a) incorrect readings or b) chlorine poisoning problems with my fish.

What does everyone else use to dechlor their tank? (Obviously, letting the water sit out overnight is one way to allow the dissolved chlorine gas to evaporate, but that doesn't take care of any other metals etc. in the water. Urg, and it's a pretty slow process!)

 

[Allivymar]

Hrmm..Tap Water Conditioner (by Aquarium Pharm right?) has no effect on ammonia. So thats not the prob.

I agree; if the levels of ammonia really were that high, you'd have a tank of dead fish. I'm wondering if there is something seriously wrong with the ammonia test itself. Can you bring a sample to a lfs to have them test the water and double check?

Some other musings:
Is the ammonia absorber one of those types which is recharged by salt? And have you added any salt to the tank? I wonder (perchance this happened) if it released the trapped ammonia, although again, the fish would be showing signs of ammonia poisoning (breathing problems, hanging out near the surface, loss of color, etc).

I'd get that water rechecked ASAP. IF the fish are fine, another 12 hrs or so won't make a diff (this is assuming the test is wrong); I'd hold off on that big a water change until I was sure it was needed. Be prepared for it tho just in case.

 

[toddwess]

Try not to use any chem's, just use dechlor for your water and let it sit for a day so chlor evaporates and doesnt kill your bacteria.

You mean my water should sit for a day after adding "Tap Water Conditioner" before it is added to the tank????

Todd

 

[Allivymar]

Naw; it works instantly. I actually add the dechlor along with the water into my tank during water changes.

 

[toddwess]

I'm wondering if there is something seriously wrong with the ammonia test itself.

Actually the amonia test expires in November 2003, so it probably couldn't hurt to get a second one this afternoon.

Is the ammonia absorber one of those types which is recharged by salt? And have you added any salt to the tank?

Yep, I had salt in the water. I was using this white charcoal substance that went into the extra cartridge of my Emperor 280 filter. It says it is Amo-Chem something or other. It is out now.

I'd hold off on that big a water change until I was sure it was needed. Be prepared for it tho just in case.

Hmm, already did the water change - bout 60% last night. Everyone is still fine this morning. Was planning on putting in some bio-spira this afternoon arfter work.

I think it was just a combination of too much tinkering. I need to get the water in the tank, and let it cycle, and learn to keep my hands out of there! I always try and use products (amonia absorber) before they are necessary, so I won't ever need them. I'll keep y'all posted, but for now, you can see the tank yourself at http://www.toddwess.com/todd.html

Thanks again for everyone's help!
Todd

 

[Allivymar]

*starts laffin*

Its a TankCam! LOL tell those fish to slow the heck down; I can't see em when they go whipping by! Heh, and you realise you show up as well. And do something about the window glare

Hrmm...could very likely be the test. Again, levels of 8.0 pmm ammonia is basically instant death; if the levels were truly that high I'd imagine there'd be some sort of hint from the fish

LOL Don't fix what ain't broken!

 

[Allivymar]

Whoa...tank lites. What a diff.

Btw LOL I grabbed a screenshot of you reflected in the tank; I'll post it, but only if its ok with you