Confused with Cycling

[jennymph]

Also I have the crushed coral as a back up if my PH doesn't restore when it comes to stocking my tank

I'll PM you my readings maybe

 

[ZxC]

Whilst I've been cycling and testing parameters, I asked a lot of questions regarding why the ammonia was so high etc (basically being paranoid) and got told a lot that I need to raise my PH. So I was just going to do it as a precaution. I'll check my tap PH tomorrow and maybe grab a hardness test too.. see what I mean about mixed facts ? At the end of the day I want the most natural occurrences rather than messing about too much, I've added some established media today so I'll check my readings tomorrow and then take it from there.

Yes, plenty of mixed and varied views. I am an active planted tanker, and many of us looking at growing plants use buffering substrate to achieve a pH of 6.0-6.5, we actually want the pH at those levels, and none of us have troubles cycling with pH's as such

The kH of your water is more important in terms of keeping your pH stable, so I do recommend picking up a kH + gH test kit.

If you're looking for the most natural conditions, do not alter them from your tap unless they are way out of wack. Also, in nature water conditions are usually acidic (< pH 7.0) because of the decaying organic matter in the water.

That's my opinion anyway, what are your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels currently?

 

[Delapool]

It would just about be worth a re-visit thread on this. Generally I’ve seen for a cycling fish-less tank to keep ph above say 6.5 else new bacteria population slows down. And below 6 can be very slow. Perhaps as already slow from cycling it just seems even slower.

Many threads I’ve seen where a stalled cycling tank at low ph has been restarted with a water change or adding baking soda.

Don’t have the links on me except this note. For every gram of ammonia oxidised into nitrate 4.8 grams of oxygen is used, 7.14 grams of calcium carbonate is used (thus why pH crash can occur in tanks with to little buffering capacity).

But low ph tanks are doable (there is no guide saying ph / kh must be above x as we know), which makes me wonder on the differences between an established tank and one getting established eg perhaps the established tank has a range of bacterial populations that can be more or less efficient at different ph values.

 

[jennymph]

Ammonia between 2-4ppm (was 8 so that's good)
Nitrite is 0.25ppm was 0 yesterday
Nitrates 20ppm
I've got my crushed coral now anyway so could always try a little bit in the tank maybe? Was going to layer it under my sand substrate (1/3 of the tank) anyway

 

[ZxC]

Ammonia between 2-4ppm (was 8 so that's good)
Nitrite is 0.25ppm was 0 yesterday
Nitrates 20ppm
I've got my crushed coral now anyway so could always try a little bit in the tank maybe? Was going to layer it under my sand substrate (1/3 of the tank) anyway

If you're worried about the cycle and pH, I would just use a filter mesh bag full of crushed coral and hang it in the tank, then you can remove it after the tank is cycled. Do note this might cause the pH to rapidly hit 8.2+ which might actually kill your current bacteria......

 

[jennymph]

If you're worried about the cycle and pH, I would just use a filter mesh bag full of crushed coral and hang it in the tank, then you can remove it after the tank is cycled. Do note this might cause the pH to rapidly hit 8.2+ which might actually kill your current bacteria......

Good lord this is tricky. Tell you what just gonna leave it. It's obviously doing something as my nitrites have increased in 24hrs after adding the established filter media yesterday. I'd rather not have the issue of what you've just said. Although now I'm wondering about how to increase the pH when it comes to stocking.

 

[ZxC]

Good lord this is tricky. Tell you what just gonna leave it. It's obviously doing something as my nitrites have increased in 24hrs after adding the established filter media yesterday. I'd rather not have the issue of what you've just said. Although now I'm wondering about how to increase the pH when it comes to stocking.

See, the issue with adding pH adjustments is that they will fluctuate, and cause more harm then good. Crushed coral will likely cause a stable pH at 8.2+, something I work so so so hard to avoid in my tanks. If you put it underneath your substrate, it's stuck in the tank for good, so you'll be looking at a pH of 8.0+ until the crushed coral's buffering capacity is used up. Not to mention you'll be adding water @ pH ~ 7.0 so that will be a larger flux of pH values during water changes while we wait for the crushed coral to buffer it up to ~8.2+.

I'm a firm believer in stability being the utmost important thing in a healthy tank, so if we are constantly changing things, it stresses out our livestock.

Ammonia should spike, then start to come down. Check.
Nitrites should begin to spike. Check.

Once nitrites are down, and nitrates are present you should be close. You are actively seeing this happen, so yes, your cycling is working as it should.

As for stocking, what are you looking at? pH of 6.4 is acceptable by most fish

Edit: Another good test you could do it leave a glass of chlorinated tap water out for a few days, and test that pH. It should be similar to the tanks pH because this is the natural equilibrium of your degassed tap water.

 

[jennymph]

I'm looking at doing a female Betta sorority (8) and Corydoras (6-8) maybe some other inhabitants but haven't got that far yet as I'd rather not have any further territory/aggression issues than what I'm capable of handling. I love tetras (congo, black widow and silvertip) but heard they are fin nippers so they might have to wait. But yeah female bettas and Cory's

 

[jennymph]

(further note: it's going to be heavily planted)

 

[ZxC]

I'm looking at doing a female Betta sorority (8) and Corydoras (6-8) maybe some other inhabitants but haven't got that far yet as I'd rather not have any further territory/aggression issues than what I'm capable of handling. I love tetras (congo, black widow and silvertip) but heard they are fin nippers so they might have to wait. But yeah female bettas and Cory's

Those are all soft water fish and will do great at pH 6.4

Also, most plants prefer the softer water so.... Plants plus those fish equals soft water!

 

[jennymph]

Water parameters as of right now:
TAP pH - 6.8-8.2
Cycling Tank
Temperature - 80
pH 6.4
Ammonia 2-4
Nitrites 0.25
Nitrates 20ppm

 

[jennymph]

Aka all seems good ?

 

[jennymph]

**** TAP 6.8-7.2 NOT 8.2 lol

 

[ZxC]

**** TAP 6.8-7.2 NOT 8.2 lol

Yep, you are smack dab right in the middle of the cycling process. All looks well.

 

[jennymph]

That's music to my ears ? Thanks for all your help!! I'll update you when stocked! ?

 

[Coralocean]

Sorry to hijack the thread I did not want to start a new one on same topic. I am in the same boat as jenny doing a fish-less cycle with ammonia. My ph is 8.2 which is too high for the fish I plan to stock.

I will be replacing the water source but thought the high ph would be good during the cycle. I have not used any chemicals except conditioner (Seachem Prime) and could not find a fish store to give me some seeding media. Will changing the ph (by replacing the water) have any affect when I finish cycling?

 

[ZxC]

Sorry to hijack the thread I did not want to start a new one on same topic. I am in the same boat as jenny doing a fish-less cycle with ammonia. My ph is 8.2 which is too high for the fish I plan to stock.

I will be replacing the water source but thought the high ph would be good during the cycle. I have not used any chemicals except conditioner (Seachem Prime) and could not find a fish store to give me some seeding media. Will changing the ph (by replacing the water) have any affect when I finish cycling?

Just change it out slowly.

For example a 30 gallon tank, with roughly 25 gallons of actual water, change out 5 gallons every other day (maybe split into 2 x 2.5 gallon every other day) which will slowly remove 20% of the old water, and replace with 20% "new" water. Over a week or two you will slowly change over the water to it's new chemistry, then you can simply use all "new" water during water changes. This way is being extra safe and you will limit the "shock" of new water parameters on live stock / bacteria.

 

[flitabout]

Your Cycle is looking great!!!! When you test your tap you need to do a 24hr tap test basically you just aerate a cup of water (I use an air stone) for 24 hours allowing for the water to totally off gas and then test to get a true number on your tap water. I do mine every season living in farm country our water isn't great. High nitrates and stupid hard water.

 

[King Fisher]

Good lord this is tricky. Tell you what just gonna leave it. It's obviously doing something as my nitrites have increased in 24hrs after adding the established filter media yesterday. I'd rather not have the issue of what you've just said. Although now I'm wondering about how to increase the pH when it comes to stocking.

Here's a little trick to raise pH. Add air stones and turn them up a bit. Same principal as swimming pools or hot tubs.

 

[King Fisher]

Sorry to hijack the thread I did not want to start a new one on same topic. I am in the same boat as jenny doing a fish-less cycle with ammonia. My ph is 8.2 which is too high for the fish I plan to stock.

I will be replacing the water source but thought the high ph would be good during the cycle. I have not used any chemicals except conditioner (Seachem Prime) and could not find a fish store to give me some seeding media. Will changing the ph (by replacing the water) have any affect when I finish cycling?

Fish will adapt to high pH. Fluctuations in pH not so much.