Continual Phosphate Problem

[MsBeanCtr]

I thought I had this solved but apparently not. I thought changing the resin in my ro/di unit would help but it really hasn't made a dent. I just got done testing my water--

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10 mg/l
Phosphate - 1.0 mg/l (no, that's not a typo)
Alkalinity 3 mEq/l
Ph - right between 8 and 8.2
Calcium - 375 mg/l
1.025

I've been doing my pwc's of 20% a week. I've been so concerned that I've done 3 pwc's in the last week (20% each). I don't want to loose any critters and I'm concerned with a phosphate level this high I might start. I've cut WAY back on feedings. I change my rowaphos (in the phosphate reactor) about every 10 days to 2 weeks.

On a positive note...my new protein skimmer is working great.

What would you suggest as a next step? I've never been a follower of adding "stuff" to my tank but I did go look at something called phos-busters.

HELP!!!

 

[ccCapt]

Any way you can test the ro/di water for phosphate? Something is adding alot of phosphate into your system.
As far as the Rowaphos, is that the brand GFO your using? How much are you using in your reactor? What kind of flow do you have going thru it? FWIW, I use 9 tablespoons of PhosPure from Dr F&S for my 75 and I change that out every month. Flow thru the reactor is very slow. The GFO barely tumbles in the reactor.
I've read a little about those liquid phosphate removers. They have something in it that supposedly binds the phosphate, but it doesn't take it out of the system. Just a band-aid fix IMO. The GFO is expensive enough, I wouldn't waste money on the liquid quick fix.

 

[MsBeanCtr]

Any way you can test the ro/di water for phosphate? Something is adding alot of phosphate into your system.
As far as the Rowaphos, is that the brand GFO your using? How much are you using in your reactor? What kind of flow do you have going thru it? FWIW, I use 9 tablespoons of PhosPure from Dr F&S for my 75 and I change that out every month. Flow thru the reactor is very slow. The GFO barely tumbles in the reactor.
I've read a little about those liquid phosphate removers. They have something in it that supposedly binds the phosphate, but it doesn't take it out of the system. Just a band-aid fix IMO. The GFO is expensive enough, I wouldn't waste money on the liquid quick fix.

Thanks much for the prompt reply. I change out 250ml every 2 weeks (mainly because my phosphates are so high). I'm filtering some water right now and I'll test it tomorrow morning and post.

The flow through the reactor is possibly set a wee-bit too high (compared to your description). The top inch of gfo is at a "slow boil".

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Sorry to hear it's still an issue. It's hard to believe that it's your source water, but it sure seems like it's the culprit since you're not reducing the PO4, even with that many water changes.

You didn't wash out whatever you store your fresh water in with detergent, did you? I'm thinking you didn't, but figured I'd ask. Any detergent residue would be a PO4 source, big time.

 

[MsBeanCtr]

You didn't wash out whatever you store your fresh water in with detergent, did you? I'm thinking you didn't, but figured I'd ask. Any detergent residue would be a PO4 source, big time.

Thanks for asking but unfortunately I didn't (oh no, that would have been too easy darnit!)

I just got done doing a test for phosphates again (directly from the ro/di water w/o any salt added) and it came up with .2 mg/l

 

[Biggen]

Thanks for asking but unfortunately I didn't (oh no, that would have been too easy darnit!)

I just got done doing a test for phosphates again (directly from the ro/di water w/o any salt added) and it came up with .2 mg/l

Are you having any algae problems in the tank?? I don't know the back story so I'm not sure if you are having any issues. Have you tried using another test kit or having the LFS test for you?? Just wondering if your kits are bad.

Seems like a .2 ppm reading coming straight from the ro/di would not be accurate unless the ro/di is not working properly. What is the PO4 level from your straight tap water?? What about the level just after you add salt?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I just got done doing a test for phosphates again (directly from the ro/di water w/o any salt added) and it came up with .2 mg/l

Can't remember... do you have a TDS meter? If so, what are your tap water levels compared to the output of your RO/DI?

Even if your RO membrane is shot, if you just put in fresh DI resin, that should strip anything and everything from your water just on its own. At least for several dozen gallons or so!

Hmmm... that is strange.

 

[MsBeanCtr]

Hmmmm.....don't even know what a tds meter is therefore; I don't have one.

I will test later today on the tap water.

Oh, and the ro/di water that I tested was the 10th gallon after changing out the resin.

 

[cmor1701d]

TDS = Total Dissolved Solids

You can learn all about them and how they work at http://www.tdsmeter.com/

Then you get one for under $20.00 on eBay

 

[roka64]

Also make sure you get the calibration solution.

 

[Ziggy953]

Hmmmmm...Phosphates...nasty...What salt mix are you using? Even .2 is too much. Baically if you detect Phosphates in your water at any point, tap after RO/DI or in the tank it is too high.

So, what salt mix are you using. What kind of water pressure to you have at your house? What were the results of the PO4 test on your tap water?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Along with Ziggy's questions... your own well, or is it a municipal water supply?

 

[MsBeanCtr]

Along with Ziggy's questions... your own well, or is it a municipal water supply?

we're on a small community well of 250 users. I'm not sure exactly what our water pressure is.....I believe it's on the low end of average.

I'm using Reef Crystals and have been since the beginning. Yes, before you ask, I've always had problems with phosphates in my tank but never this high before.

I'm wondering if I should opt for like Safeway or Central Market filtered water (the ones where you bring your own container and fill them).

I haven't been home yet to test my tap water yet.

ps-thank you very much for your help with this-it is really starting to bother me.

 

[lando]

PO4 can also be introduced into your tank via feeding. Checking source water and mixed SW prior to adding it to the tank is a great starting point. IME, food has played a much greater role. What do your feed, how often and how do your prepare it?

 

[Biggen]

we're on a small community well of 250 users. I'm not sure exactly what our water pressure is.....I believe it's on the low end of average.

I'm using Reef Crystals and have been since the beginning. Yes, before you ask, I've always had problems with phosphates in my tank but never this high before.

I'm wondering if I should opt for like Safeway or Central Market filtered water (the ones where you bring your own container and fill them).

I haven't been home yet to test my tap water yet.

ps-thank you very much for your help with this-it is really starting to bother me.

Is there any actual algae problems or are you just worried about the test results?? If there is no problem and you are getting a PO4 reading of 1 ppm, then your test kit is bad...

While food (especially flake food) is a very common source of PO4, if you are getting a .2 ppm reading right from your RO/DI WITHOUT adding salt, something is terribly wrong with the test kit or the RO/DI unit. I would take a water sample down to the LFS and have them test for PO4 for you and see what their results are..

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...if you are getting a .2 ppm reading right from your RO/DI WITHOUT adding salt, something is terribly wrong with the test kit or the RO/DI unit.

Yup yup.

And if you've just changed the DI resin, I'd say it's the test kit. Boy... wouldn't that be a nice answer to the problem!

 

[MsBeanCtr]

Yup yup.

And if you've just changed the DI resin, I'd say it's the test kit. Boy... wouldn't that be a nice answer to the problem!

Yeah right....you think it's gonna be that easy?! Nawww....

I just tested right out of the tap and came up with right between .05 and .1

I thought it might be the test kit too but I tested with two different kits (two different brands too).

I'm not really having much of an algae problem (a small patch of cyano). My feeding schedule is --

One day a cube of frozen mysis shrimp or emeral entree or rod's food (very, very well rinsed in tap water-thanks to a tip from lando)
Following day a partial sheet of dried seaweed
Next day is without food
Next day a pinch of Formula 1 & 2 marine pellet food
then start the next day with the frozen food again.....

I'll be out tomorrow so I'll get the lfs to test it for me.

What are your thoughts for using the filtered water from a grocery store (you know the ones when you bring your own container)?

 

[Ziggy953]

That water is not worth the expense IMO! I'm stumped. I use reefcrystals as well and have no detectable phosphates. I'm on a well and my water is phosphate free from the tap and everything else free after the RO/DI filter. I'm not sure what to say. Could be a funky batch of salt mix. I would be curious to see what the LFS has to say when they test the water. I would take them a sample of tap, RO/DI and SW to test.

 

[fijiwigi]

That water is not worth the expense IMO! I'm stumped. I use reefcrystals as well and have no detectable phosphates. I'm on a well and my water is phosphate free from the tap and everything else free after the RO/DI filter. I'm not sure what to say. Could be a funky batch of salt mix. I would be curious to see what the LFS has to say when they test the water. I would take them a sample of tap, RO/DI and SW to test.

Couldn't be said better. Sounds like a solution to me

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I'm not sure what to say. Could be a funky batch of salt mix....

The numbers she's giving are straight out of her RO/DI and tap... without any salt added.

Out of Tap, prior to RO/DI: 0.05 - 0.1 ppm
Out of RO/DI, no salt: 0.2 ppm

That just don't make sense! I'd say your RO membrane is bad. Is there any way to sample water before the DI but after the RO? Got a "drinking water" spigot on your unit? If so, then compare your post-RO number to your pre-RO number. Post-RO obviously should be lower. If not, then there's your problem. And if your post-DI number is higher than your pre-DI number, then your DI resin is shot and is leaching stuff back into the water.

Even running tap water through a DI resin by itself, with no RO, I'd expect you to get more than 10 gallons... but then again maybe you're water is particularly nasty right now. I run a dual cannister DI unit off of a Kold-Steril unit (no RO) and get between 50 and 80 gallons per resin charge.

With the wet winter we've had, you could be seeing a spike in the phosphates in the well water due to excess surface runoff. Just grasping at straws...