Dead fish......help!

[jazzyarizona]

Having problems here. I live in a small town, no one here can help me.
I have a 30 gallon tank, been set up for about 6 months. I started with a male betta (my grandson bought it for me) and two females, one apple snail the size of a baseball and three small cats. My male betta died and I wanted to change to the fancy goldfish. OK, I bought 2 big, black moors....beautiful. They both died the next day, so did the 2 female bettas. I cleaned my tank, changed the filters, waited a week and bought 2 calico goldfish. This morning they are both dead.
I won't buy anymore until I can find out what's going on. Can someone tell me WHAT IS GOING ON????? Please......

 

[SparKy697]

Welcome to AA.

If you could provide a little more info about your setup, it would help others to help you.

What type of filter are you running?

What is your maintenance schedule (water changes, gravel vac, etc.)?

Do you have a test kit? And if you do, what are your readings? (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)
If you do not have a test kit, you could take a water sample to the lfs where you are buying fish.

Water temperature?

I'm wondering if high nitrate is the issue here. There have been stories about fish getting used to high nitrate levels and doing just fine with it. It's when a new fish is introduced who is not used to such high nitrate levels that the problems start.


Hope this helps, hang in there.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Moved to the Unhealthy Fish Forum.

If you could answer the questions in the sticky at the top of the page we'll be able to understand your tank sitaution a little better.

 

[courtnee]

Answering all those questions is going to be a vital point in answering. If you cleaned out the tank, switched the filters etc I am going to guess the tank is not cycled and the water is not healthy for fish and the only way to know is to test the water.

Also a baseball sized apple snail is going to really bring up the waste in the water as that is a very healthy sized snail. Add in goldfish and that is a huge bioload in a 30gl tank.

 

[jazzyarizona]

OK, more info....and thank you all so much for helping me.

I tested the water on 4/30:
PH 7.4
Amm 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 40 PPM

I treated the water with Tetra EasyBalance and retested for nitrates....still 40PPM. The following day I again treated with the EasyBalance, still 40PPM. Yesterday I tested for nitrates and it was 80 PPM, did a 25% water change and it is 40 PPM. I ended up losing my big snail which upset me, had her for years.

My filter is Whisper Power Filter, rated to 60 gal., my tank is 30 gal. I only changed the regular filter, not the biological filter. My tank is about 6 months old, I have done several 25% water changes but nothing major. Temp is 72.

Yesterday I bought a bubbler and set it up, hoping more aeration will help. I seem to have quite a bit of algae but the water is clear. I have no live plants. Now I have three cats and one small snail left.

Help....I am a one woman disaster.......

 

[Zagz]

First quite using easy balance. It doesn't help anything and may be giving you false readings. I would do a 50% water change and restest after 2 or more hours. What kind of test kit are you using?
There are still a lot of questions in the sticky that we need answers to in order to best help.How often are you doing water changes? What stock is left in the tank? Temp is too cold for tropicals but not for goldfish. Goldfish and tropicals should not be housed in the same tank. Any flashing or physical symptoms on the fish?

 

[corster]

Water change. I have a 29 gallon way overstocked I do water changes everyday because of how many fish I have. I have some fish problems but my advisories is water change.

 

[jazzyarizona]

OK, I will stop using EasyBalance........ I used Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.
All I have left now are three little cats and 1 small snail. The first to die was my male betta, he just got slower and slower, stayed at the bottom and then died. The 2 female bettas died after I introduced the 2 black moors.....probably my fault they died. The 'fish lady' at Wal-Mart (yes, told you it's a small town) said the bettas and goldfish could live together! After what you told me I will never mix again. So....the moors started swimming kinda sideways, seemed to struggle not to turn upside down and float to the top. I had them for about 18 hours and they died within an hour of each other. The two calicos lived about 12 hours, they were dead when I got up so I don't know what symptoms they showed. I had been doing a 25% water change about once a month and vac at the same time.
My big snail has been dying for several days, just slowly, laying on the bottom upside down with her entire body out. I couldn't stand it anymore, made me feel so bad. Put her out of her misery today. I had her since she was dime size! She was beautiful.....
What does 'flashing' mean?
Hope I have answered everything. If I can add any more just let me know. I will do the 50% tomorrow morning.
Thank you so much!!!!!!!

 

[LandGhoti]

Flashing is when a fish rubs itself quickly against rocks, plants, substrate, or really anything in the aquarium. It's a sign of irritation to the scales (or skin, in scaleless fish), usually caused by high ammonia and nitrite readings (I think even nitrate too).

Most people on here recommend changing out 50% of the water weekly. 25% once a month is not enough IMO.

It's also possible that the newer fish were sick when you bought them and then brought the overall health of the tank down. I would continue testing your water and wait a while before adding more fish. Also, raise the temp with the tropicals, like Fishyfanatic said. I know it's a bummer that goldfish can't be kept with other fish!

Good luck.

 

[jazzyarizona]

OK....more news and it's getting better. Seven days ago I did the 50% water change, as you recommended, and after two hours checked the nitrate level....it was 10
Today I did a 25% change, after two hours the nitrates were 20, which is still a whole lot better than when we started this. In removing the water and vacuuming the bottom I found a little lump of a dead fish....so this might have been part of the problem????? I have noticed a slower growth in the algae, too.

OK, raise the temp for tropicals, and a 50% w/c weekly?? Should I wait longer to add fish? Is '0' the ideal for nitrates?

Thanks for the info on flashing.....I had no idea.

Hi Corster.....water change everyday, wow.....how many fish do you have in your 29?

Thanks so much....

 

[LandGhoti]

Only ammonia and nitrItes should be 0. It's OK for nitrates to be between about 10-20 (and sometimes a bit higher in planted tanks), so you're fine with 20.

I would bet the dead fish lump was causing the problem because the decay started the spike of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate and since you couldn't find it for awhile, kept your params out of whack.

I do a 50% weekly, and I think a lot of people on here do too. Of course on Saturday when I was at the LFS, the fish guy I always talk to freaked out when I said I do a PWC that often. He does 25% once a month and thinks that is enough. So I guess as long as your water params are in check and your fish are all happy and active, do water changes the way you regularly do them. I think it's easier to keep a tank healthy when you do more frequent water changes, though. There's nothing wrong with good clean water.

 

[jazzyarizona]

Maybe what I can do is start with a 25% change weekly, see how that works. I was doing 25% monthly before so we know that doesn't work for me.... ! Also, I will check the nitrates weekly, too. I feel bad that I didn't check all this out when I started my tank. I lost some beautiful fish because I didn't know all this. Lost my neat snail, too.

This is a terrific site. I have been browsing through all the forums, feel like I am learning.....

Thank you incredibly......

 

[LandGhoti]

Sounds good. Don't feel bad...we've all been there!

 

[courtnee]

OK, I will stop using EasyBalance........ I used Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.
All I have left now are three little cats and 1 small snail. The first to die was my male betta, he just got slower and slower, stayed at the bottom and then died. The 2 female bettas died after I introduced the 2 black moors.....probably my fault they died. The 'fish lady' at Wal-Mart (yes, told you it's a small town) said the bettas and goldfish could live together! After what you told me I will never mix again. So....the moors started swimming kinda sideways, seemed to struggle not to turn upside down and float to the top. I had them for about 18 hours and they died within an hour of each other. The two calicos lived about 12 hours, they were dead when I got up so I don't know what symptoms they showed. I had been doing a 25% water change about once a month and vac at the same time.
My big snail has been dying for several days, just slowly, laying on the bottom upside down with her entire body out. I couldn't stand it anymore, made me feel so bad. Put her out of her misery today. I had her since she was dime size! She was beautiful.....
What does 'flashing' mean?
Hope I have answered everything. If I can add any more just let me know. I will do the 50% tomorrow morning.
Thank you so much!!!!!!!

I know I am a little late on this....

Snails are amazing creatures. They can live in cool water and warm water. Warm water actually shortens their lifespan. Apple snails is what I am use to dealing with (Brigs) and the one thing you will see over and over again on sites such as applesnail.net in the forums is

Snails are very touchy to water quality not the temps. NitrAtes are the big one. The nitrAtes rise the snails slow down, act funny and can appear about ready to die. A good hefty water change and bringing down the nitrAtes will send them in the other direction back to normal.

Anything above 20 for nitrAte and my brig apple snail will get cranky in my tank. Not move around and act sick. I learned that through my fish education and it has worked out well.

Also that large of a snail it could of just been its time. In tropical temps you are looking at only about a 1yr life span. Cooler water you can push it to about 3.

When I see a large apple snail I am impressed.

 

[courtnee]

Maybe what I can do is start with a 25% change weekly, see how that works. I was doing 25% monthly before so we know that doesn't work for me.... ! Also, I will check the nitrates weekly, too. I feel bad that I didn't check all this out when I started my tank. I lost some beautiful fish because I didn't know all this. Lost my neat snail, too.

This is a terrific site. I have been browsing through all the forums, feel like I am learning.....

Thank you incredibly......

I agree dont feel bad. I felt guilty for a long time for the misery I put my goldfish through and killed it. I didnt know a fraction of what I do now. this site really helped me learn and things have gone great. As I learned you still will hit bumps here and there and these guys will help you as best as they can to get over them.

Keep reading and learning and enjoy those healthy fish!

 

[jazzyarizona]

Oh, my goodness.....Just call me Miss Fish Killer, the Ted Bundy of Aquariums, the death goblin of fish...... I am cursed.

Since everything seemed to be under control, I bought two small fantail goldfish yesterday. I really want to get into fancy goldfish and, since I am basically starting from scratch, figured I would try with two little 'uns. So......they are both dead !

My water hasn't changed.....PH is 7.2, nitrite and amm 0, nitrate 20, temp is 76. Filter is working fine, I have a bubble curtain running. I must be doing something wrong or I am not looking in the right place for the problem......or I could just settle for a nice bubbly 29 gal. aquarium, EMPTY !

What do you suggest.....other than using it for a planter?

 

[LandGhoti]

I'm sorry you lost the two little ones.

I haven't had goldfish since I was a kid, but they do not require a heater, so 76 I think is too warm for them. I don't know if that's what the problem is with your two, but it's probably not helping.

I can't remember what else is in your tank at this point, though. Goldfish, as far as what I've read on here, shouldn't really be kept with tropicals. Perhaps someone else can clarify, though.

 

[jazzyarizona]

I don't have tropicals anymore.....they all died. That's why I thought maybe I would change to goldfish. I guess, unless someone can come up with something, maybe I will keep doing the 25% weekly and give it a few more weeks....then try new fish again.
Gold fish need cooler water than 76 ? Tropicals need water in the 80's ?

I guess it wouldn't hurt to take all the plants and rocks out and give them a good scrubbing again.

I feel that when I go buy fish I say 'I'll take you and you, come home with me so I can kill you' ! !
How awful this is........

 

[LandGhoti]

No, tropicals need between 72 and 80 or so. Goldfish don't need any heat, can in fact hibernate in outside ponds during the winter because their metabolism slows down. If you keep goldfish, you can ditch the heater but make sure you have a great filter because they poop a lot.

Sorry for the temperature confusion.

At this point, I really don't know why they would be dying. Are you using dechlorinator when you do water changes?

Don't give up; we'll get you figured out.

 

[jazzyarizona]

I do use a dechlorinator when I do water changes and have the water at room temp. I just finished cleaning all plants, caves, major tubing, etc., did another 25% change. Now I'll wait two hours (as you suggested) and retest on everything.

I was kind of confused about temp, thank you for clarifying that for me.

At the rate I'm going.....I would welcome a fish that poops a lot, as long as it was alive

My tank is soooo clean, looks so good.....kinda empty but good !
Thanks so much for not giving up on me.......