dead fish - now what?

[anne stuart]

My little black goldfish had been doing fantastic in his bioorb flow 8 gallon tank for 6 months until I put a bit of drift wood in there. suddenly I found him on the bottom and he only lasted a few days after that despite the fact that the water was testing perfect. They tank had cycled, I've had quite a long list of goldfish in there over the past 2 years but haven't had anyone last even a year. Tank readings when blacky was on the bottom were ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, PH 7.5. PH had been at 8.0 till I put the drift wood in. I did 25% PWC every day but then I had to go away for the weekend and of course he was dead when I got back. he could have been dead in that water for as much as 48 hours there's no way to know. So now what do I do. Should I dump the whole aquarium and start over cycling the tank? Should I just do 50% change and not cycle? Should I give up on the fish thing and get some houseplants? I'm doing a fishless cycle on another tank in the other room for my daughter, and I"m terrified of keeping more fish alive!

 

[tali931]

An 8 gallon tank is way too small for a gold fish.. Probably why they keep dying.

 

[anne stuart]

If the tank was too small then wouldn't I see ammonia or nitrate spikes? Testing showed perfect readings. Ironically he was totally fine until I started getting all fancy and tested the water. The first 2 fish died because I had a nanny taking care of the tank and I found out she was cleaning the tank 100% every week including washing the gravel in tap water. Also we had never cycled a tank. She just went to the pet store with my daughter and came home with tank and fish. I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did (almost a year). The next fish died within 24 hours of getting him so he was probably sick from the store. The next fish "silver" died when the fish store got my daughter all excited about a fiddler crab telling us it could be in the same tank...until he grabbed one of our fish. That launched me into a 5 month experiment with a brackish water crab habitat (don't get me started). With Blacky I thought we finally had it down. He was happy and healthy alone in the tank. I fed him only 3-4 mini pellets every day and no more. I cleaned no more than 30% of the water ever and only every week or two. Water testing all good. He was perfect until 2 days after I put the drift wood into the tank to bring down the marginally high PH. Although the fish store said that 8.0 is perfectly fine for a goldfish and not to worry about it, but they said he'd probably like the log. Could it have been the drop in PH? I simply don't have room for a bigger tank so if I keep this thing it has to be something easy to care for that can live in the 8 gallon bio flow. Can someone help me? Do I dump out the tank and start over? Do I keep some of the water? Do I need to cycle? What the heck would be good for us. I really want this to be much easier than it has been!

 

[tangs27]

A sudden ph change can definitely kill a fish. A single betta with some shrimp and low light plants would be a much better fit a tank that size. The plants will also help water quality.

 

[anne stuart]

OK. but what should I do about the water in the tank now. dead fish in there for as much as 48 hours, no way to know. How do I prepare it for new fish? Full water change and fishless cycle or 50% water change and test the water?

 

[tangs27]

I wouldn't dump the whole thing I would just do 50% water changes everyday for a week that should take anything that might be in there out. That way you won't have to recycle the tank.

 

[anne stuart]

Set up after dead fish

Awesome! Should I put the driftwood back in the tank? My tap water PH after adding the seachum prime dechlor is 7.2 on the high range PH test. In the tank though it looks like 8.0 or 8.2 to me. Not sure what is taking the PH up so high. I will look to add a plant now and replace the plastic plants that have been in there for a couple of years (maybe my PH problem?). I don't have a heater in there now, do I need one? and I was considering a guppy? What's the EASIEST fish to put in there? And how long can I go without fish before the biofilter is depleted?

Also, I'm cycling a tank in the other room and i have the ceramic filter media in this tank. Should I just leave it? Should I use some water from this tank to help the cycling new tank? Tested the water this morning in the old tank that had the dead fish:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 8.0 or 8.2 hard to tell

My new tank that is cycling is on day 8 and levels are:

Ammonia .5 (second day at this reading)
Nitrite .25 (second day at this reading)
Nitrate 0

 

[J.Mcpeak]

An 8 gallon tank is way too small for a gold fish.. Probably why they keep dying.

The fish that died after 24 hrs was possibly shocked by the new habitat, just a thought. Goldfish I think should last 17 years or so. I thought 8ph was ideal for goldfish?

Treat both systems separately, wait a bit be patient.

High pH is possibly due to alkaline buffers in the water, most tap water comes out neutral, it stops the pipes decaying. Leave a glass on the the side for 24 hours and test that.

Try the ten times fish length = tank length, that should see you in the right place for fish at ADULT size. What size is the new tank? Explain, Filters etc.

(I would check the nitrate test is being conducted correctly, consistent zero is not often observed in a regular tank with normal filtering)

 

[tangs27]

You can add some gravel from your old tank to your new tank it will help speed things up. I'd stick to the betta it's an easy fish. Depending on the temp of the water you may or may not need a heater.

Consistent ph is better for fish than messing with it all the time and it constantly changing.

It will take awhile for the beneficial bacteria to die and force you to re cycle the tank.

 

[anne stuart]

You can add some gravel from your old tank to your new tank it will help speed things up. I'd stick to the betta it's an easy fish. Depending on the temp of the water you may or may not need a heater.

Consistent ph is better for fish than messing with it all the time and it constantly changing.

It will take awhile for the beneficial bacteria to die and force you to re cycle the tank.

Thank you!

 

[anne stuart]

What size is the new tank? Explain, Filters etc.

(I would check the nitrate test is being conducted correctly, consistent zero is not often observed in a regular tank with normal filtering)

a few days before adding the drift wood the Nitrate was up around 30 so I did a PWC of 25%. Then it went to 0 and has stayed there for over a week even after the fish went belly up. I'm using the API master test kit and I've been testing every day since the fish started hiding and hanging out at the bottom. This tank (the bio orb) has been around with fish in it for a couple of years so in theory should have a good bio filter by now. Of course what do I know I keep killing fish.

The other tank is for my 5 year old and is a fluval spec 5 gallon tank with a heater. She wants a school of tiny fish that don't grow and she'd love some shrimp. I was thinking neons or something like that. I have a small plant in there now so I can try my hand at the live plant thing. That light is sufficient I'm told for plants. We'll see if they can survive me. Suggestions on "tiny fish that don't grow" and are incredibly hardy and easy?

The bio orb is 8 gallon and it sits on my kitchen counter. I think I'll take this opportunity to move it, the only issue is where to since we have lots of natural light and I don't want to battle algae.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

a few days before adding the drift wood the Nitrate was up around 30 so I did a PWC of 25%. Then it went to 0 and has stayed there for over a week even after the fish went belly up. I'm using the API master test kit and I've been testing every day since the fish started hiding and hanging out at the bottom. This tank (the bio orb) has been around with fish in it for a couple of years so in theory should have a good bio filter by now. Of course what do I know I keep killing fish.

The other tank is for my 5 year old and is a fluval spec 5 gallon tank with a heater. She wants a school of tiny fish that don't grow and she'd love some shrimp. I was thinking neons or something like that. I have a small plant in there now so I can try my hand at the live plant thing. That light is sufficient I'm told for plants. We'll see if they can survive me. Suggestions on "tiny fish that don't grow" and are incredibly hardy and easy?

The bio orb is 8 gallon and it sits on my kitchen counter. I think I'll take this opportunity to move it, the only issue is where to since we have lots of natural light and I don't want to battle algae.

A tank without fish would read low, if there is no ammonia you shouldn't get nitrate, assuming no snails etc. the various bacteria feed on the stages of the nitrogen cycle, the ammonia bacteria nitrosamonas convert ammonia into nitrite, nitrite bacteria nitrospira convert nitrite to nitrate.

No fish=no ammonia, follow the cycle to no nitrate.

No you don't want to battle algae, maybe it (the 8g) would make a nice shrimp/planted tank, could be perfect? Low light, low tech plants and shrimp. (Shrimp need special care, calcium I think is important, never kept any, get some good advice for shrimp, a book perhaps)

Licking the bowl | Features | Practical Fishkeeping
(Bi-orb potential) this is from a magazine in the UK, probably the number 1 for fish keeping.

Perhaps these for the 5g,
Ember Tetra
Hyphessobrycon amandae

Fish profile - Ember Tetra

Anything smaller than these! That would be pointless I think.
Best of luck for the future, hopefully it gets more exciting for you.
Fishkeeping is fun!

(Edit- look at cryptocoryne species of plants, find a suitable size, pop it in the tank, Job done, they are almost all bulletproof, trust me I'm not a plant fanatic at all, cryptocoryne, Anubis and java fern, live in a bonfire they will, pretty much indestructible) oh clean them for snails first!

 

[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello anne...

Never heard of a goldfish living in a small, tropical tank environment. These are colder water fish and typically water keepers have two or three in a 55 gallon tank.

If you're interested in keeping goldfish, then get a 55 gallon tank and put just a couple in there.

B