dead plants and high nitrates?

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I completely understand. My tank had this exact same problem. I have anubias, (at the time wisteria), Rotala mac., stargrass, hygro, and several java ferns.

The wisteria gre great, the stargrass and hygro and anubias the same. But my java fern just began to turn brown, then the leaves got black, and eventually the majority of them fell off. I was told it was a CO2 issue as java ferns are apparently poor competetors for CO2 (ie the faster growers take the CO2), but this couldn't be possible as I was running high CO2 (ie 60-100ppm!). I had ample nitrAtes, phosphates, traces, iron, etc. My GH was 10degrees so I should also have ample amounts of calcium and magnesium.

But no avail, it always seemed there was a deficiency. I assumed it was potassium because of the way the leaves would deteriorate (textbook potassium deficiency), but I at one point probably had close to 100ppm potassium present in the tank. Still no luck.

Now java fern is very difficult to figure out because it grows so slowly. A minor deficiency might not show up for a week or more, so its not as easy to identify a problem until its well established. The problem with this however is that my fast growers which are supposed to be the "canary" plants, show no deficiency.

So I've come to the possible conclusion that java fern prefers low amounts of ferts to grow well. High levels of light are definately NOT a cause as my java's exploded when I went form the stock tank lighting to ~4wpg of CF light. All of a sudden they ALL started to die off like yours. I trimmed off bad leaves, kept dosing everything (I do a hybrid EI dosing, in that I measure my levels and dose accordingly but slightly higher than needed), and still no luck.

I now have 2 root balls that are green but have not sprouted new leaves in over 2 weeks. I can't tell if they are doing anything at all or just getting ready to rot away.

So I have a 10gallon QT tank I'm attempting to grow snails in now and have been putting clippings from the main tank in, along with the remainder of the java ferns that are partially brown but still have some slightly healthy looking leaves on them.

These plants have been creating new plants on the leaves that look healthy, and so I'm wondering if either I reached a life cycle stage where the plant wants to create offspring and the main plant dies, or whether the plant "realizes" its better to start anew than attempt to repair itself.

The water in the QT tank is not fertilized. I overfeed to attempt to introduce some algae in the tank for the snails, and there is no CO2 being injected (nor Excel being added). If the java ferns begin to recover and the new plants are healthy I'm going to put a couple back in the main tank and see if the same thing happens as before.

Like you I was stumped and quite frustrated. I would suggest clipping off the heavily damaged leaves, and possibly transferring a couple of the plants to a separate container that gets some indirect sunlight (or put it next to a lamp). I would use 25% tank water and the rest dechlorinated tap water and let it go for a bit and see if the plants recovers.

I'm starting to wonder if java fern can be finicky like "lucky" bamboo and REQUIRE low nutrient levels (CO2 not being counted). I keep several plants of these at my desk at work and under higher nutrient levels the plants will brown and the leaves will die. If the water isn't changed quickly (I use distilled) the plant can die.
 
I'm afraid the java fern is beyond repair :(

As i said, i have only ONE leaf that is still fully green. All other leaves of java fern on all my other bits of it are WAY beyond repair, with perhaps just a tad left of green on some, and the rest just brown brocken skeletons.
I can't see the rhziomes (don' t mind the spelling :p) sprouting anything new.

I think you're right about Java fern not liking high nutrients.

Though, my wisteria is now showing decificeny signs. *sigh*
Looks to be iron. The plant is light green, but some of the lower leaves have started to turn dark green and transperant. It's sprouted some white roots from the stem, but the growth ontop of the plant has ceased. Should i does some iron?
Should i stop the CO2 injection for awhile?

I'm getting some off cuts of java fern from the shop on friday and some more offcuts from the uni aquarium in my department. It will be interesting to see how these new cutting go in my tank...though i don't have much hope for them.

Any advice and anwers very welcome
 
I would not stop the CO2 under any circumstances as this along with a possible fert deficiency could spell algae disaster!

I'm really not sure if you have an iron/trace deficiency. Are you dosing any iron and in what form? Are you dosing at the same time you are dosing phosphate (not a good thing to do)? With such a high bioload I'm assuming you are feeding a good deal of food and trace levels and most likely iron is probably not bottoming out if you are dosing some.

How many PWC's and what % have you done since realizing you were dosing baking powder instead of baking soda?
 
I haven't dosed the Baking powder for quite awhile...not sure exacly when i stoped.
Maybe a month? I didn't think that that would have been the problem, because it's been so long between when i stoped it and when all this happened. Plus, this didn't happen while i was doing it :s
guess you can't totally rule it out though hey? hmm...

How many water changes since i've stopped the baking powder? Not sure :s enough, atleast 4 or 5 i think. The last one was big, about 50%. Things started going downhill after that big water change.
Ak, i don't even know the last itme i changed the water :s A week perhaps...

No, I'm not dosing iron. Only pottasium, every day 3mls.

I think that when the wisteria all died, the eccess ferts burnt the java fern. I'm hoping that by adding more wisteria back into the tank, they will suck up lots of nutrients and make it safe again for the java fern. Is it ok?

What could this deficiency be in the wisteria if it's not iron, pottasium, nitrate or trace???
 
With dosing 3ml of Potassium per day, you'd be dosing 21ml of Potassium each week. My recommendation was for 15-30ml of Potassium per week. So you still have some room to increase your dosing before you can rule out Potassium as a cause for the problems you've encountered.

To clarify what's happening to your Wisteria. Are the veins staying dark green while the rest of the leaf is turning pale green/yellow/transparent, or is the entire leaf turning transparent and melting away? If the first then you are looking at an iron/trace deficiency and increasing the amount of traces you are dosing would help with either. If it's the second you are looking at a Nitrate/Phosphate deficiency.

Unless you're using a Lab Grade Test Kit like Lamotte or you've calibrated your test kits, there's a possibility that your test results are off which would be causing part of the confusion. I think we probably covered this in another thread, but you should be using liquid test kits instead of test strips since the test strips are even more prone to being inaccurate.

Since you don't seem very fond of testing your water, perhaps you would do better trying EI dosing. With this method you ensure that you have sufficient levels of CO2 and ferts throughout the week and then use a large 50% water change at the end of the week to reset you water parms. This might be less stressful for you than trying to chase down the problem in your tank. I'm sure that if you want to give this method a try someone would be able to help you determine the dosing for your tank.

As to why everything was going so well and then suddenly went downhill. What probably happened is that your plant mass finally grew to a point where it outpaced the nutrients available in your water and something bottomed out. The remaining nutrients would start to build up since the deficiency would prevent them from being used, and the fastest growing plants would suddenly find themselves without nutrition and die.

I'm sure that you can turn this tank around. Good Luck!
 
Quick and possibly obvious question here, but I haven't seen it addressed.

You don't have the rhizome of the Java Fern buried do you?
 
No, the rhizomes are not burried.
I trimmed them, the rhizomes are all that's left. They arn't mushy so I'm hope'n that they might still grow something.
Did a big water change, nitrates are down, I gave the shop my corsys (4) and a pleco. hope'n this will reduce the nitrate production in the tank.
Now i have 12 neons, 5 cheery barbs, 2 plecos (one about 1 inch, the other about 2 inches) and a few timy glass shrimp.

Only plant that hasn't been effected by all of this in the java moss
 
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