Deficiencies and toxicities of plant nutrients.

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Autumnsky said:
The rootone or starter is similar but a different thing. The fungi will grow and colonize on the root and though you cut the root back it would still be there, and colonize like a sponge of BB rinsed off all but a corner would still be able to grow it back. The M. fungi (sorry can't spell it w/o looking it up) will cause the 1 root to sprout to 10 roots (I am making up the numbers but the process is the same), where as using a fertilizer might make it sprout off a few, and then the M. fungi keeps those going in hyper drive too, as they colonize. It keeps going.

Basically it causes a mutation which is beneficial for plant growth and health. Learned of this in Master Gardener plant classes, and yes it was a long time ago, and it was a long time ago before that they began using this.
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Thanks Autumn. That very may well explain the oversized roots.
 
It is indeed an eco-complete substrate....... I've been dosing 1/8 tsp csm+b on Tues. and 1/8 chelated on Thurs. Do a 50% w.c every Sat. Not overly concerned, just curious...... Been reading a lot about trace toxicity lately so I'm probably paranoid !! LOL
 
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mandoborg said:
It is indeed an eco-complete substrate....... I've been dosing 1/8 tsp csm+b on Tues. and 1/8 chelated on Thurs. Do a 50% w.c every Sat. Not over;y concerned , just curious...... Been reading a lot about trace toxicity lately so I'm probably paranoid !! LOL
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How big is your tank and what is 1/8th teaspoon chelated?
 
.....IMG_1558.JPG

Also disappeared and from then on Growth was phenomenal.

IMG_1996.jpg

IMG_2045.JPG

IMG_2043.JPG

Micros were limited to the substrate where algae could not gain access.

Notice how clear the surface water is in the last photo.
 
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Also read where certain minerals prohibit absorbtion of others, and conditions like pH or CO2. It was a scientic paper and not too sure about everything I read, but maybe worth checking about which ones may effect the others.
 
Found this note in with the info about M fungi
from Wiki
Resistance to toxicity[edit]
Fungi have been found to have a protective role for plants rooted in soils with high metal concentrations, such as acidic and contaminated soils. Pine trees inoculated with Pisolithus tinctorius planted in several contaminated sites displayed high tolerance to the prevailing contaminant, survivorship and growth.[25] One study discovered the existence of Suillus luteus strains with varying tolerance of zinc. Another study discovered that zinc-tolerant strains of Suillus bovinus conferred resistance to plants of Pinus sylvestris. This was probably due to binding of the metal to the extramatricial mycelium of the fungus, without affecting the exchange of beneficial substances.[24]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

This is interesting from the standpoint that with all we do know there is so much more in play with all of the Aquatic plant keeping, that we do not have any idea.

Caliban - what is the growth from the plants in the sand tray you added into the tank??
 
Autumnsky said:
Also read where certain minerals prohibit absorbtion of others, and conditions like pH or CO2. It was a scientic paper and not too sure about everything I read, but maybe worth checking about which ones may effect the others.
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This is why toxicities can display symptoms of deficiency as the ions compete for plant uptake. Too much Fe for example can induce Mn,Zn and Cu deficiency. However symptoms and toxicity threshold will vary depending on plant species water hardness and pH. High Ca will compete with Cu for plant uptake and so high Ca can protect against toxicities. There's a bit about this in Walstad's book.
 
Autumnsky said:
Found this note in with the info about M fungi
from Wiki
Resistance to toxicity[edit]
Fungi have been found to have a protective role for plants rooted in soils with high metal concentrations, such as acidic and contaminated soils. Pine trees inoculated with Pisolithus tinctorius planted in several contaminated sites displayed high tolerance to the prevailing contaminant, survivorship and growth.[25] One study discovered the existence of Suillus luteus strains with varying tolerance of zinc. Another study discovered that zinc-tolerant strains of Suillus bovinus conferred resistance to plants of Pinus sylvestris. This was probably due to binding of the metal to the extramatricial mycelium of the fungus, without affecting the exchange of beneficial substances.[24]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

This is interesting from the standpoint that with all we do know there is so much more in play with all of the Aquatic plant keeping, that we do not have any idea.

Caliban - what is the growth from the plants in the sand tray you added into the tank??
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Very interesting about the fungus. I wouldn't expect that it has been that effective if it has been used in the plants I purchased.

It would seem that it is much more difficult than we actually realise and that some people just find the right strategic balance (even if by chance) due to their source water, plant choices etc and other don't. I'm swinging more towards keeping things in the substrate.

Both sets of new plants (sand and eco complete appear to be doing well. Rotala wallichii has just started its transition and the new Monte Carlo looks well as to the new S.repens. I haven't dosed traces for about 4 days and without iron for 2.
 
All my control plants were swashing around in the water flow this morning. The only space for them was in the front corner but the flow picks up a lost of speed as it hits the glass and is forced to the bottom where the tub was. I may just plant them all in the eco complete at this point as the ones already in there seem to be doing ok. All the stunted plants will be coming out tonight and a big water change.
 
Caliban07 said:
All my control plants were swashing around in the water flow this morning. The only space for them was in the front corner but the flow picks up a lost of speed as it hits the glass and is forced to the bottom where the tub was. I may just plant them all in the eco complete at this point as the ones already in there seem to be doing ok. All the stunted plants will be coming out tonight and a big water change.
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I think my problem isn't so much a toxicity issue anymore (still could be) but today I dosed seachem replenish (basically a GH booster). Replenish is high in calcium (14%) and my plants are looking better already. The hygro was looking very ruff this morning but now I'm almost at the end of the photo and it's looking much better.
I haven't dosed micro's for a week now apart from iron and to be honest this morning the plants looked worse than they ever have.

I'm ordering everything I need to make Barrs GH booster and I'll be dosing this with my weekly water change. Once I start the booster I'll be slowly introducing micro's again starting at 0.1g.

I will still continue to dose iron seperate aswell.

Trying to work out a fert routine for soft water has proven to be a hard task so I'm going to take the lazy option and make my water harder to attempt to avoid toxicity.

I'll also only be dosing macros 3 times and week and micro's 3 with Saturday being a rest day to use up any excess nutrients.

Have you found a solution to your tank yet cal? Is the liquid trace and iron combo working for you?
 
Bert2oo1 said:
I think my problem isn't so much a toxicity issue anymore (still could be) but today I dosed seachem replenish (basically a GH booster). Replenish is high in calcium (14%) and my plants are looking better already. The hygro was looking very ruff this morning but now I'm almost at the end of the photo and it's looking much better.
I haven't dosed micro's for a week now apart from iron and to be honest this morning the plants looked worse than they ever have.

I'm ordering everything I need to make Barrs GH booster and I'll be dosing this with my weekly water change. Once I start the booster I'll be slowly introducing micro's again starting at 0.1g.

I will still continue to dose iron seperate aswell.

Trying to work out a fert routine for soft water has proven to be a hard task so I'm going to take the lazy option and make my water harder to attempt to avoid toxicity.

I'll also only be dosing macros 3 times and week and micro's 3 with Saturday being a rest day to use up any excess nutrients.

Have you found a solution to your tank yet cal? Is the liquid trace and iron combo working for you?
Click to expand...


I not surprised that things improved by adding calcium. We know it's harder to see toxicities in harder water. Particularly waters with high calcium.

I'm pulling the stunted plants. They seem incapable of carrying out photosynthesis. All the newer plants pearl and these have slowed down somwhat. Even the old Monte Carlo I might take out. And the hairgrass. The new leaves on the Alternanthera look a nice pink if a little wavy but I may even replace this too.

Replanting will also give me time to get rid of the BBA on the substrate.

The traces made things worse and the iron just made everything green.

A 40 litre water change using my tap water gives me 0.5ppm iron. Do I really need anymore iron than this for the week?
 
Caliban07 said:
I not surprised that things improved by adding calcium. We know it's harder to see toxicities in harder water. Particularly waters with high calcium.

I'm pulling the stunted plants. They seem incapable of carrying out photosynthesis. All the newer plants pearl and these have slowed down somwhat. Even the old Monte Carlo I might take out. And the hairgrass. The new leaves on the Alternanthera look a nice pink if a little wavy but I may even replace this too.

Replanting will also give me time to get rid of the BBA on the substrate.

The traces made things worse and the iron just made everything green.

A 40 litre water change using my tap water gives me 0.5ppm iron. Do I really need anymore iron than this for the week?
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0.5 is heaps. I'm only dosing 0.6 and starting to think that maybe that's a little much.

I'm hoping my AR mini recovers considering it's impossible to get here unless I do the dodge and void qt laws. To be honest I don't like doing it as the fine are huge if I got caught.

That's sort of why I'm in a rush to sort this out. I've got a lot of plants that I've done the dodgey to get and can't afford to loose them (was pretty expensive to get a small amount of stems here)
 
The foilage of the plant will go to such a dark green it has a black hue to our eyes. But it is temporary

Like you said fe just made everything green. Which is aethesticly what it does. It works with N to give you that deep green.

The best I can tell im at .06 as well. Your AR is about the perfect indicator plant I use my lilly. My lilly rivals any red lotus imo
 
flchamp89 said:
The foilage of the plant will go to such a dark green it has a black hue to our eyes. But it is temporary

Like you said fe just made everything green. Which is aethesticly what it does. It works with N to give you that deep green.

The best I can tell im at .06 as well. Your AR is about the perfect indicator plant I use my lilly. My lilly rivals any red lotus imo
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Ok thanks. 0.06 or 0.6?
 
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