Depleted Supply (and Ran Week's Course) of Stability...Now What?

[ArtesiaWells]

Okay, friends.

Many of you have been following my threads regarding the 60 gallon goldfish tank I recently lost to a bacterial infection, and how I have been re-establishing that tank in under a week...in it right now is a small Black Moor which survived the bacterial breakout unbelievably, and the tank has been up and running with fresh filter media, water and cycling routine for a week now. Parameters look good, and the Moor is doing very well, with the whole tank to herself...

Here's the thing: I just today used my last drops of Seachem's Stability, which I had been using to kick-start the cycle in the re-established 60 gallon and help seed this tank, but ironically, it happened to fall out around the time I was going to end the treatment anyway (a week). What should my procedure be now in terms of cycling this tank? Should I take parameter readings again, then report back and see if a water change is called for? As I said, the Moor seems to be doing very well, swimming, eating and having fun in the tank -- the water itself seems to be clearing as compared to the way it was early on in the week when I first started Stability ( it got very cloudy very quickly due to the bacteria explosion) so I think I'm on the right track...I just don't want to risk adding more fish to this tank (it's going to be a fancy goldfish collection once again) too soon, just to have crash and cycle problems again.

I am definitely ending the Stability treatment at this point -- but what should my next step be in the cycle process? Just leave the water alone and test routinely, letting the BB build on the substrate and filter media?

 

[emerald76]

Yes. In two to three weeks, I reccomend you add one of the goldfish from the ten gal into the tank and do lots of PWCs. Three to four weeks later, add the other fancy Goldie from the ten and leave the red cap in there.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Yes. In two to three weeks, I reccomend you add one of the goldfish from the ten gal into the tank and do lots of PWCs. Three to four weeks later, add the other fancy Goldie from the ten and leave the red cap in there.

As always, thanks Emerald!

Some questions for you: First, you mentioned doing "lots of partial water changes"...do you mean once one of the other goldies are moved into the 60, or beginning now? I just don't want to "mess" too much with the cycle going on in the larger tank, even though water changes are always welcomed...

What should I do at this point, however, with the 60 gallon? Should I take API test readings to see where the water is at, or leave it alone for right now being that "Ebony" is doing well and the water is clearing? As I mentioned, the tank has been running/cycling for a week now; is a massive or minor water change required at this point?

With regard to your suggestions of moving the fish from the 10 gallon -- may I ask why it's good to wait two to three weeks to introduce one of the guys from the 10 gallon into the 60? Our plan was to actually begin looking at high-grade fancies from a breeder and ordering them online rather than pick them up at our LFS because that happens to be Petsmart or Petco; there are NO other privately-owned, enthusiast-run shops anywhere near us. We don't want to run the risk of obtaining poorly cared for fish again; I suspect many of Petsmart's stock, in particular, is bogged down with sick specimens based on our history of picking goldies up there...

That said, we wanted to get breeder-quality goldies for the 60 when it was time rather than move the ones that are in the 10 gallon now -- the ones with the Red Cap are really small and seem more "conditioned" (right now -- I realize they grow and grow quickly) for the smaller tank, and all three in there have been seemingly getting along. That brings up another issue I had about your suggestion -- you mentioned leaving "Rubio," the Red Cap, in the 10 gallon by himself after the smaller two have been moved. But if there was one I would rather move -- taking his aggression issues out of the equation for a second -- it would be the Red Cap because he is definitely getting bigger...we can see it; his body is getting plumper and his fantail is beginning to develop, with some indications that there is a wen growth as well. Wouldn't it make more sense to move him because of his growth spurt right now? As I stated, there is the aggression factor to take into consideration -- after all, this is the fish that picked and bullied the two fantails I had in the 60 previously to an infection-oriented death, so his behavior would have to be monitored very carefully as we don't want him doing to the Black Moor what he did to the fantails...

Looking forward to your thoughts!

 

[emerald76]

As always, thanks Emerald!

Some questions for you: First, you mentioned doing "lots of partial water changes"...do you mean once one of the other goldies are moved into the 60, or beginning now? I just don't want to "mess" too much with the cycle going on in the larger tank, even though water changes are always welcomed...

What should I do at this point, however, with the 60 gallon? Should I take API test readings to see where the water is at, or leave it alone for right now being that "Ebony" is doing well and the water is clearing? As I mentioned, the tank has been running/cycling for a week now; is a massive or minor water change required at this point?

With regard to your suggestions of moving the fish from the 10 gallon -- may I ask why it's good to wait two to three weeks to introduce one of the guys from the 10 gallon into the 60? Our plan was to actually begin looking at high-grade fancies from a breeder and ordering them online rather than pick them up at our LFS because that happens to be Petsmart or Petco; there are NO other privately-owned, enthusiast-run shops anywhere near us. We don't want to run the risk of obtaining poorly cared for fish again; I suspect many of Petsmart's stock, in particular, is bogged down with sick specimens based on our history of picking goldies up there...

That said, we wanted to get breeder-quality goldies for the 60 when it was time rather than move the ones that are in the 10 gallon now -- the ones with the Red Cap are really small and seem more "conditioned" (right now -- I realize they grow and grow quickly) for the smaller tank, and all three in there have been seemingly getting along. That brings up another issue I had about your suggestion -- you mentioned leaving "Rubio," the Red Cap, in the 10 gallon by himself after the smaller two have been moved. But if there was one I would rather move -- taking his aggression issues out of the equation for a second -- it would be the Red Cap because he is definitely getting bigger...we can see it; his body is getting plumper and his fantail is beginning to develop, with some indications that there is a wen growth as well. Wouldn't it make more sense to move him because of his growth spurt right now? As I stated, there is the aggression factor to take into consideration -- after all, this is the fish that picked and bullied the two fantails I had in the 60 previously to an infection-oriented death, so his behavior would have to be monitored very carefully as we don't want him doing to the Black Moor what he did to the fantails...

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Now and moving forwards do lots of PWCs. The less ammonia the better for the fish. Do 50% two or three times per week. Take readings daily. If they are more than 0.25, 0.25, 40, do a water change. In regards to the ten gal fish, move the least aggressive to the most aggressive so passive fish can develop territories. However, add the red cap oranda last- after the breeder fancies and the other two in the ten. Or, you can add him first in a divided off section of the sixty. You'll have room for one or two fancies from a breeder. Quarantine the new fish in the ten if you go with the second option. I'd go with the second option.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Now and moving forwards do lots of PWCs. The less ammonia the better for the fish. Do 50% two or three times per week. Take readings daily. If they are more than 0.25, 0.25, 40, do a water change.

Okay -- but here's the thing, emerald...I read that doing too many water changes during a fresh cycle can have negative results because you don't want to take out too much ammonia as this assists in the cycle and breakdown of the fish waste; I understand needing to keep a lid and control over ammonia spikes, especially high ones, but wouldn't massive water changes like you're suggesting upset the cycle right now? I mean, in the meantime I can do the API tests, but I am just asking...

Additionally -- there's only one fish in this 60 gallon right now, which is running with two big HOB's on it turning over a nice amount of water per hour (over 800 gallons if you believe the combined rates of these filters) and the fish is being fed sparingly...do you still think ammonia will climb?

Thank you...

In regards to the ten gal fish, move the least aggressive to the most aggressive so passive fish can develop territories.

Wait -- so definitely move the two smaller ones we just introduced because they're on the timid side? The last time the Oranda was introduced "last" he attacked my two fantails who had already "developed territories"...

However, add the red cap oranda last- after the breeder fancies and the other two in the ten. Or, you can add him first in a divided off section of the sixty. You'll have room for one or two fancies from a breeder.

When do you think the selection of "premium" goldies from a breeder can take place -- once the weeks pass and we've introduced the fish from the 10 gallon?

Quarantine the new fish in the ten if you go with the second option. I'd go with the second option.

What "new fish" -- the ones we get from a breeding farm? Or the ones we introduced to the 10?

 

[emerald76]

Okay -- but here's the thing, emerald...I read that doing too many water changes during a fresh cycle can have negative results because you don't want to take out too much ammonia as this assists in the cycle and breakdown of the fish waste; I understand needing to keep a lid and control over ammonia spikes, especially high ones, but wouldn't massive water changes like you're suggesting upset the cycle right now? I mean, in the meantime I can do the API tests, but I am just asking...
It won't from what I've heard.

Additionally -- there's only one fish in this 60 gallon right now, which is running with two big HOB's on it turning over a nice amount of water per hour (over 800 gallons if you believe the combined rates of these filters) and the fish is being fed sparingly...do you still think ammonia will climb?
It will, but two fifty percent changes per week should be sufficient. Or a twenty percent every other day.
Thank you...

Wait -- so definitely move the two smaller ones we just introduced because they're on the timid side? The last time the Oranda was introduced "last" he attacked my two fantails who had already "developed territories"...
Try the divider method to introduce.

When do you think the selection of "premium" goldies from a breeder can take place -- once the weeks pass and we've introduced the fish from the 10 gallon?
About 3 weeks after introducing all current fish.
What "new fish" -- the ones we get from a breeding farm? Or the ones we introduced to the 10?

The ones from the farm
Answers in quote

 

[ArtesiaWells]

It won't from what I've heard.

It won't harm a cycle at all? I will do tests and return with results as soon as I can...

It will, but two fifty percent changes per week should be sufficient. Or a twenty percent every other day.

Hmmm...interesting; I suppose the only way I am going to know for sure is to take some readings...

Try the divider method to introduce.

Okay -- I'll take that into consideration...

About 3 weeks after introducing all current fish.

Is there a specific reason for this time frame? Does it have to do with not "shocking" a cycle or fish that get introduced mid-cycle?

The ones from the farm

Gotcha.

 

[jetajockey]

The fish-in cycling guides in the article section should be able to answer most, if not all of your questions.

I don't suggest keeping any goldfish in a 10g long term.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

The fish-in cycling guides in the article section should be able to answer most, if not all of your questions.

I don't suggest keeping any goldfish in a 10g long term.

Thanks, jeta; we didn't plan on keeping them in there long term...we just need to figure out what we're going to do with them! The biggest issue is the behavior of this aggressive Red Cap; we do NOT want a repeat of what happened with the other two (for him to attack the Black Moor we saved)...

Here's the thing, though: The Red Cap has been exhibiting strange behavior over the last couple of days, so we may have to move him anyway...