Discus Discussion

[greenmaji]

Or, would it be best to start out with a bare tank for someone starting with Discus? The only reason I havnt kept them in the past was the cost of the fish itself.. I am pretty confident that I could keep them I just havent done it yet..

 

[Jchillin]

or have you been talking to Jchillin?

LOL...yeah, he was referring to me Bill. For the record, I knew your name was Bill, just hope you remember how I got that info.

 

[greenmaji]

I understood your question Bill. I wanted to give it some thought before I responded. My answer may not satisfy you because it's not definitive. I have never used a protein skimmer and have never seen one used for discus. That doesn't mean it would be totally ineffective.

I've been to several discus hatcheries in the U.S., and have seen some very sophisticated set-ups. My logic tells me that if the use of a protein skimmer could save any of these hatcheries either time or money they would be utilized. Perhaps it hasn't been thought of. Perhaps the cost on a large scale is prohibitive. Perhaps there is just no substitute for clean fresh water.

This is the first time I remember someone referring to me by my first name.. And quite frankly Im not sure were I told anyone what my first name is.. anyway that is not important I want to talk about Discus! LOL.. It does cause a little confusion.. sometimes though... I should have figured he was talking about you.. you come across alot more complemetery than I do.. even if Im trying..

 

[BrianNY]

Yep..........was referring to my buddy JChillin.

Personally, I think anyone that wants to keep discus should give it a try. The investment is more in a little extra time, than money. A new discus keeper should have a plan though. The easiest thing to do is spend the big bucks and buy adults. However, I don't think that's nearly as rewarding as buying juveniles and growing them out yourself.

If I were just starting today, and this were my first foray with discus, I would buy 5 or 6 young fish and keep them in a bare bottom 29 gallon. That's an ideal size tank for growing discus to between 3 and 4 inches. The reasons are many. Water changes aren't so onerous, the discus will shoal, they won't have too much room to get lost in, and if you must medicate it won't cost you a fortune.

Once the discus have reached the above mentioned size, they should be moved to a larger tank. A tank of about 75 gallons will not inhibit their growth and is a good size for their permanent home.

Buying discus from a breeder? Check out Great Lakes Discus. Cary Strong puts a lot of care into selecting and shipping. I'm not saying others don't. I just feel very secure in recommending him.

 

[greenmaji]

I went to his site, Great Lakes Discus, to see his prices and the links to his order forms are broke.. ohh well..
I have a single 75 gallon right now.. are you talking about keeping 5-6 adult discus in a 75 gallon? or are you talking about were to put a pair if they pair off?
do you put pairs in there own tank, and if so how big would you suggest..29 gallon or maybe a 40 breeder?
have you used a python water changing devise for discus.. Im afraid of using such a thing on a tank with delicate fish in it.. I wouldnt use it on my angels when I had them because im paranoid like that.. I was wondering what your opinion was on that.. in other words do you use aged water, pre-declorinated and treated water, with your water changes.

 

[aquakev]

I use a python for my discus, straight from the tap, dechlorinator of course. many people recomend to age the water used in water changes to stabalize the ph and other chemistry. Mine comes out of the tap the almost same as when it has been sitting.
Now, I dont thik discus are really that delicate in my opinion, expensive yes! If you get thm from a good source you will find that they are a little forgiving. I had a power outage one cold night in Feb. and my tank temp dropped from 86 all the way to 73-74. anyway, I brought it bake up slowely and the discus were fine and feeding that afternoon.
I have herd great things about GLD and know they are highly recomended by discus enthusiasts but I have had no personal experience with them.

 

[BrianNY]

I also do water changes with a python straight from the tap. I buy bulk dechlor from Jehmco. My tap water pH is dead on 7.0, but rises to 7.6 after CO2 gas out in 24 hours. The KH of my tap water is less than 1 DK. So I must either change alot of water or buffer with cc to avoid a pH crash.

I agree with Aquakev on how hardy discus are. They seem to adjust happily to most water conditions. All they really demand is very clean water. I've seen them bounce back from the brink of death with correct tank maintenance.

And yes Bill, I was talking 5-6 adults in a 75g. My breeding pairs are in tanks ranging from 20 - 50 gallons. Most of them in 29s. Except for young grow out fish, I keep the rest of my adult discus in tanks ranging from 55-125 gallons. Talk about MTS LOL.

When the discus pair off, I make the decision to move them based on how aggressive they become. I've found that aggression lessens with more discus in the tank. I have 14 adults in one bare bottom 125 and there is almost no aggression. On the other hand, a 55 gallon with 4 adults seems to produce alot of hostility.

 

[greenmaji]

I need a new test kit..LOL.. Im not sure of my PH and KH values..
is it a good Idea to try to acclimate the discus to your water slowly.. ie find out what PH and KH they have been acclimated to and try to replicate that and slowly adjust them or as you said they are hardy and just need time and lots of maintainance to be acclimated to the new water?
good info on how you house the discus Brian.. and I would get MTS extremely fast if I ever decide to keep discus so I can see were you coming from there!..LOL

 

[bussardnr]

could you use a 20 gal as a grow out tank?

 

[greenmaji]

Brian said to use a 29 gallon to grow out 6 juvenals to 2-3 inchs.. If you take a third off the tank you would have to take a third off the number of fish... and the point of having 6 is so that they will shoal, kind of like schooling. im not sure that 4 juvenals will shoal..

 

[bussardnr]

is shoaling nessasay? i one have room to keep about 2 adults. so 4 would be ok in a 20gal?

 

[greenmaji]

2 adults might be better off in a 29 gallon.. An adult discus is 8 inches long.. two 8 inch fish in a 20 gallon would normally be ok but discus need a low bio-load...

 

[bussardnr]

i have a 75 gal to move them into once they're grown out abit.

 

[BrianNY]

Please remember that what I'm saying here is based on my experience. I think a 29 is ideal for 6 young fish. That doesn't mean it can't be done in a 20. The thing is the discus will have to be moved to larger quarters sooner if started in a smaller tank.

As for the shoaling question. Discus do better in groups. With younger fish I've found that the more the merrier applies. They seem to find comfort with their own kind and will stress less, and have a healthy competition for feeding. I've also found that 4 is a bad number. Discus establish a pecking order. For some reason the lowest discus on the pecking order is picked on continually in a group of 4. I've found that by going to 5 or 6 discus, the dynamics change and they all seem to get along better.

I use the slow drip method to acclimate new discus. It's important to use a bucket without square corners or internal cutouts. This protects their eyes from getting scratched.

 

[greenmaji]

Ive never used the slow drip method before.. actually I never heard of it.. I get the idea though.. I like it alot!!! thanks Brian!
Has the slow drip method been discussed on this board before and I wasnt here yet to see it?
sorry if I jumped the gun on anyones questions though.. that could be very bad actually.. Ill try to be more general or not answer at all..
I would assume that they would need to be moved to a larger tank faster, so it would be better not to start with a smaller tank, as well; I might be just assuming too much...

 

[BrianNY]

Those are good questions Bill.

The slow drip method: Empty the bag of water and fish into a smooth rounded bucket. Tie a length of airline tubing off into a loose knot and begin siphoning from the tank into the bucket. Eventually tighten the knot until the drip is approximately 2 drops per second. This very gradually acclimates the fish to the tank water. When the bucket is almost full (approximately 45 minutes), net the fish from the bucket and place them in their new home.

And you're correct about moving them too soon from a smaller tank.

 

[TankGirl]

There is only one caveat to the slow drip method, and this depends entirely on how long the fish have been in the bag, as in a ride home from the LFS for 15 minutes, versus 2 or more days in a shipping box.

Ammonia is less toxic at lower pH, so if you open up the bag with relatively high ammonia and a low pH, then start dripping in water from your higher pH tap (since you want to acclimate them to your own water) it renders that ammonia suddenly much more toxic and you can kill the fish. If the fish have been shipped and your pH is higher than the pH of the bag, you are much better off putting the fish directly into your water. The adjustment to the different pH is easier for the fish to handle than ammonia, if you have to choose one or the other, so you would just float the bag to equalize temperature, net the fish out and put it in your tank, discarding the shipping water.

This is a little bit OT but is an important factor to consider when acclimating fish that have been shipped to you.

 

[greenmaji]

can declorinating the, with a very small dose of course, water enough for the bags water be used with the drip method.. assuming youve tested and found that it contains ammonia. And if the PH of your water is under 7.0 does ammonia this still apply considering the ammonia is not as lethal to fish when the PH is under 7.0. I personaly thought that when you ship fish you one ship them overnight or another quick method and would normaly QT the fish and not feed them for a few days to keep the ammonia down; is this not the case?

 

[TankGirl]

If your pH is under 7 then you don't have to worry too much about it and you can drip acclimate. Often the fish are not fed for a day or two prior to shipping, but often this does not mean there is zero ammonia in that water. It is just something to be aware of.

You can use Prime or another dechlor that neutralizes ammonia during acclimation

 

[greenmaji]

So if you use dechlor you can use the drip method, assuming you test and have ammonia to remove? I like the drip method alot better to acclimate fish to my water, Im quite sure that my water will be quite different than a online seller or other hobbiest that are not local. I have a very old test kit but Im quite sure my PH is over 7.0, the question was for people reading this who might have 7.0 or lower ph.