Diseases

[Andy Sager]

HELP!! I HAVE A DISEASE!!!!!!
Good, now that I have your attention, EVERYONE at one time or another will have a fish with a disease. It's practically unavoidable. The question is: Where can I find help when the stores are all closed, your internet is down, your favorite "disease person" is not online for days or what medicine do you use? For years, since 1989 actually, I have been promoting the book Handbook of Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser because it has one of the best diagnosing charts I've ever seen in the hobby for the average hobbyist. It uses a very easy format of "If this then do that" in steps. The book is available from a number of places but not everybody wants to buy from Amazon or has an Ebay account or has the time to do internet searches finding it ( which is just being lazy IMO because you literally can find it in seconds). During one of these searches I found a free download of the original book ( a 2nd edition was released in the early 1990s) with the pictures and diagnosing charts. EVERYBODY should have this on hand. Here's the link to the download: https://pdfcoffee.com/handbook-of-fish-diseases-smaller-sizepdf-pdf-free.html Be aware that since this is an older book, some of the medications it recommends may no longer be available or are available under different brand names but once you get the proper diagnoses, you can then find out the available meds for that disease.
So let's start saving some fish.

 

[MysticSkye]

Thanks so much! I was just wondering if there was something out there for the fish keepers in need of learning more about fish disease/sickness. I am currently trying to understand what's the deal with, Bee Gee, my dwarf gourami. He was given to me and looked great and healthy. Came from a stable tank with no outbreaks. He was loving his new space! A nice 75g with him being the largest (I have tetras, corys, and snails). I even made a shelter spot for him with hornwort, duckweed, and red root floaters. One morning, I wake up to seeing him on his side at the bottom. He wasn't breathing fast or heavily, just chilling. I've talked about this before on another post which resulted in him suddenly getting up and was swimming around like nothing ever happened - this is why he was named Bee Gee for "Staying Alive". I also learned he was eating the heck out of my red root floaters, so I got rid of anything that was left. I slowed down on the feedings, fasted him, and gave him some daphnia later on. A week or two later, he's having issues again...he's on the substrate and so I think okay, were fasting again buddy. This time, he's not coming back...he's been resting for two days now & I've moved him to a hospital tank by himself cause I was worried he was getting stressed out from my corys sifting through the sand sometimes touching him which made him jump. I feel terrible for him! I've read ways to humanely euthanize fish, but have NO experience in this and worry I will end up causing him a horrible way to go. After lots and lots of reading, I am seeing a pattern with people owning dwarf gouramis and they seem to be notorious for having these issues and people call it the "dwarf gourami disease" from over breeding and inbreeding. Anyways, I'm off to download this book and see if I can find any answers to my millions of questions.

Thank you so much for sharing this link!

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks so much! I was just wondering if there was something out there for the fish keepers in need of learning more about fish disease/sickness. I am currently trying to understand what's the deal with, Bee Gee, my dwarf gourami. He was given to me and looked great and healthy. Came from a stable tank with no outbreaks. He was loving his new space! A nice 75g with him being the largest (I have tetras, corys, and snails). I even made a shelter spot for him with hornwort, duckweed, and red root floaters. One morning, I wake up to seeing him on his side at the bottom. He wasn't breathing fast or heavily, just chilling. I've talked about this before on another post which resulted in him suddenly getting up and was swimming around like nothing ever happened - this is why he was named Bee Gee for "Staying Alive". I also learned he was eating the heck out of my red root floaters, so I got rid of anything that was left. I slowed down on the feedings, fasted him, and gave him some daphnia later on. A week or two later, he's having issues again...he's on the substrate and so I think okay, were fasting again buddy. This time, he's not coming back...he's been resting for two days now & I've moved him to a hospital tank by himself cause I was worried he was getting stressed out from my corys sifting through the sand sometimes touching him which made him jump. I feel terrible for him! I've read ways to humanely euthanize fish, but have NO experience in this and worry I will end up causing him a horrible way to go. After lots and lots of reading, I am seeing a pattern with people owning dwarf gouramis and they seem to be notorious for having these issues and people call it the "dwarf gourami disease" from over breeding and inbreeding. Anyways, I'm off to download this book and see if I can find any answers to my millions of questions.

Thank you so much for sharing this link!

The diagnosis charts in this book make life a bit easier for diagnosing. As for the Gourami, Dwarf Gourami disease is actually a virus that was developed in some Asian fish farms where the regular dwarf gourami was bred and inbred and overbred that a number of years ago, it was found that almost 1/3 of all the dwarf gouramis ( i.e. flame, powder blue, common, etc.) had the virus. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell from the outside which fish have the virus unless the virus is active. Since it has no cure, it's recommended to stay away from the dwarf gouramis on the whole or keep them in a species only tank considering that the virus can spread to over 30 species of fish. Sadly, the book in the link was printed before the virus was created so there is no information about that in there.

 

[MysticSkye]

After reading about it, I won't be looking to add a dwarf gourami to my tank. It's just my neon tetras, which I thought were cardinal until seeing cardinal tetras have the red line all the way to their eye, not just the tail area. I also have 7 panda corys, 2 nerite & 1 mystery snail - love these creatures - and they are doing really well as far as I can see. My plants are thriving, and my java moss and another plant I can't for the life of me remember what it is started pearling. I thought I was seeing breeding, or is it spawning, behavior from my panda corys. I wish I could have baby corys, but I read they usually won't last unless I catch them early and put them in a breeder box.

I was really bummed about Bee Gee...he was such a hippy like fish. I've read about clove oil, I'm just really worried due to my lack of experience I would cause him a painful death rather than a peaceful one. Do you have any experience with clove oil or other methods of peacefully allowing a fish to pass?

 

[Andy Sager]

After reading about it, I won't be looking to add a dwarf gourami to my tank. It's just my neon tetras, which I thought were cardinal until seeing cardinal tetras have the red line all the way to their eye, not just the tail area. I also have 7 panda corys, 2 nerite & 1 mystery snail - love these creatures - and they are doing really well as far as I can see. My plants are thriving, and my java moss and another plant I can't for the life of me remember what it is started pearling. I thought I was seeing breeding, or is it spawning, behavior from my panda corys. I wish I could have baby corys, but I read they usually won't last unless I catch them early and put them in a breeder box.

I was really bummed about Bee Gee...he was such a hippy like fish. I've read about clove oil, I'm just really worried due to my lack of experience I would cause him a painful death rather than a peaceful one. Do you have any experience with clove oil or other methods of peacefully allowing a fish to pass?

I've been told that I'm a little more heartless because I've never been concerned about euthanizing animals. As one of my Pet shop bosses once told me: Sadly, it's more painful for the animal to suffer with what they have so be deliberate and be direct with your process. Fish are cold blooded so if you put them into a bowl of ice water, they will go into a state of hypothermia and then you can use the clove oil if you don't want to see any splashing going on. You could also put them directly in the freezer after the ice bath if you don't want to do the oil.
There is a whole section here, When To Consider Fish Euthanasia and How Vets Euthanize Fish on how to euthanize fish the way Vets do.

 

[MysticSkye]

I've been told that I'm a little more heartless because I've never been concerned about euthanizing animals. As one of my Pet shop bosses once told me: Sadly, it's more painful for the animal to suffer with what they have so be deliberate and be direct with your process. Fish are cold blooded so if you put them into a bowl of ice water, they will go into a state of hypothermia and then you can use the clove oil if you don't want to see any splashing going on. You could also put them directly in the freezer after the ice bath if you don't want to do the oil.
There is a whole section here, When To Consider Fish Euthanasia and How Vets Euthanize Fish on how to euthanize fish the way Vets do.

You were told you were heartless because you allow the fish to pass on its own? I was debating that myself. I kept telling myself I'll provide all the comfort I can and allow him to pass on when it's time. I go back and forth with, "is he suffering? In pain? Should I just end it?" I just want to do the right thing. The whole decapitation is NOT something I could stomach doing. Maybe my husband, but I couldn't watch that. He's not rapidly breathing, but I know it's time for him to go. He won't come up for food, can barely move himself correctly.

So, no judgment coming from me, you allow your fish to pass on naturally without any involvement?

 

[Andy Sager]

You were told you were heartless because you allow the fish to pass on its own? I was debating that myself. I kept telling myself I'll provide all the comfort I can and allow him to pass on when it's time. I go back and forth with, "is he suffering? In pain? Should I just end it?" I just want to do the right thing. The whole decapitation is NOT something I could stomach doing. Maybe my husband, but I couldn't watch that. He's not rapidly breathing, but I know it's time for him to go. He won't come up for food, can barely move himself correctly.

So, no judgment coming from me, you allow your fish to pass on naturally without any involvement?

No, it's because I have used what some call extremes to euthanize. I want the suffering to be over quickly so I use quick methods that some just can't handle. That's what was meant by being " deliberate".
In my career in the fish business, culling fish has always been a part of it. Most of the time, sick or deformed fish were fed to other fish in an effort to make the best quality fish for the trade. That seems to have gone by the wayside with many of the fish in today's trade. Many, like Balloon types or some hybrid species, are actually severely deformed fish from their natural origins. Those are the types of fish that would have been fed to others when very young in my hatcheries. That they are a "norm" in the trade today goes back to poor breeding husbandry and I'm guessing that so many were being found in every spawn that it became a monetary issue not to cull them vs a health issue. I opted for health. So I've been euthanizing fish since I was about 8 or 9 years old because that what was necessary to "make" good healthy fish lines. So some people call that " playing God" while others, including myself, call it " doing what needs to be done". You have to remove emotions from the equation. If it was another type of animal, you can see it's suffering so you want to end that suffering as fast as you can. It's why people have them " put down" by veterinarians because they can't do it themselves. 1 shot of a chemical and the deed is done. Fish keepers don't always have that option. If you've ever watched old western movies or studied the old west, if a horse broke a leg, the owner usually shot the horse dead because recovery was unlikely and the horse was in pain. So a quick euthanasia was common practice. I just transfer that ideology to fish. The faster you can do it, the faster the fish will stop suffering.
Hope this helps.

 

[MysticSkye]

I think I read about that in that book...that they would rid the deformed fish. Sheesh, the more you know about the industry, it begins to look bad. Wow! You were fish keeping since age of 8 or 9! That's my son's age now. As much as I tell him about keeping fish, I don't think he's quite ready to start one on his own. I think I could easily teach him, though. I had a friend that kept farm animals and she mentioned how they've had to put cows down the old western way. You're right, gotta keep the emotions out of it. I had to put down my dog because he was suffering. I think I'm a bit more comfortable with clove oil than a smack. I know my brother had to do it, I guess I could call on him or my husband haha. I guess I'm too emotional and can't separate feelings from facts. All I can think of is a guillotine type of death and it was used as a form of punishment. Thank you for providing your experiences and feedback. It's worth discussing with trusted and experienced aquarium owners. It's definitely helped in calming the "feelings" department.

 

[Andy Sager]

I think I read about that in that book...that they would rid the deformed fish. Sheesh, the more you know about the industry, it begins to look bad. Wow! You were fish keeping since age of 8 or 9! That's my son's age now. As much as I tell him about keeping fish, I don't think he's quite ready to start one on his own. I think I could easily teach him, though. I had a friend that kept farm animals and she mentioned how they've had to put cows down the old western way. You're right, gotta keep the emotions out of it. I had to put down my dog because he was suffering. I think I'm a bit more comfortable with clove oil than a smack. I know my brother had to do it, I guess I could call on him or my husband haha. I guess I'm too emotional and can't separate feelings from facts. All I can think of is a guillotine type of death and it was used as a form of punishment. Thank you for providing your experiences and feedback. It's worth discussing with trusted and experienced aquarium owners. It's definitely helped in calming the "feelings" department.

Actually, I got my first fish when I was 7 and I was already listed as a commercial breeder when I was 9. I did have an upper hand in this tho because my Mentor was a certified Ichthyologist who was a childhood friend of my Mother and owned the only pet store in their home town at the time. All the fish he sold in the front of his store were bred in the back of his store so at 8 years old, I was breeding some of the fish that would be sold in his store and by the time I was 16, when I moved to Florida, I had successfully bred every specie he carried and had been working on developing lines of my own. So I've been at this for a long, long, LOOOOOOOOOOONG time. ( I just past 61 years in the hobby. ) The fish back then were much hardier than fish today, sadly. I've been around long enough to know. LOL The genetics today are just so messed up that it's near impossible to fix without going back to starting with only wild caught fish.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of " secrets" in the industry. Some of them were really "seedy" that thankfully, no longer happen. I've been in every aspect of the industry so I know a lot of stories. As for when to start for most people, when I worked retail, I would suggest not starting a tank for a youngster to care for until they were 7 or 8. Even at that age tho, there should be a lot of adult supervision on the project. I don't know about your son but the average kid I've seen today usually doesn't handle that kind of responsibility until that age or even a little older. I know my grandson is just turning 8 and doesn't have the attention span to keep a fish tank. He's very bright in many aspects ( not that I'm biased ) but not when it comes to keeping pets. I can only hope it comes with age. Fish keeping has given me a real insight into the natural world that most never get which imo, is a real shame. But that's a whole other conversation.

Anyway, glad to help.