Edit OH NO !!!!!!!! Whats the norm for unexplained deaths ?

[joannde]

Well, the 2 otos I put into the tank 3 days ago are both gone - one lasted 24 hrs the other 48. Just now I found one of my panda cories against the filter intake tube

I've lost about 12 neon's over the course of 8 weeks - ok, they're sensitive - one is left and he's doing fine and I hate to leave him lonely but I'd rather not have more deaths.

Ok - the otos are sensitive also - maybe the four hours of drip acclimation (yes FOUR hours - added 4x the original vol of water - netted them and put them in the tank) wasn't enough.

The panda that I lost has been in the tank nearly from day 1 (beginning of May).

What is the "normal" rate of loss ? should I be concerned ??? Other than the horrible diatoms the tank is great (ammonia = 0, nitrite = 0, nitrate = 10. Last PWC on Friday - 35%, prior to that nitrates were close to 20).

 

[imrandome1]

aawwwwwwwww i have no idea but... i do feel for you, gd luck! (sorry for the lack of help, i now its not what you wonted gd luck)

 

[Burks]

I know a lot of people have trouble keeping Otos, including myself. I put two in and very shortly after, one just disappeared. Found him a few days later dead.

 

[Tong]

I think your rate of loss is beyond "normal." I was not as patient as you are in acclimating your Otos and I still only lost 1 out of 6. The one I lost was very weak from the store.

I also have 6 neons. All acclimated okay with no loss.

I think you shoudl be concerned. Are you overstocked by the way?

 

[Tong]

acclimating MY Otos...yeah...it'd be pretty hard for me to acclimate YOUR Otos.

 

[rich311k]

Ottos can be very tough to keep alive in the begining. Aparantly if they go too long in shipping etc without eating they may never start eating again and just pass away. If you can get healthy ones with nice round bellies at the LFS the survival rate should be much better.

 

[joannde]

I can understand the otos to some degree - and perhaps I didn't acclimate the original neons long enough, so thats understandable to SOME degree also. On the other hand, the neons died after weeks (not days) and the panda I lost today has been in the tank for 7-ish weeks.

I don't think I'm overstocked - 5 platies (biggest one is about 1.5", and one is 1" dwarf), 4 (now three) panda cories (1 is 1.5", the other two are 0.75") and one lonely 1.5" neon. Then there are the twelve mystery snails - maybe that's my problem ???? But my parameters are all good and I test very very often so I would have noticed any sort of spikes. 20ppm is the highest my nitrates have ever been - previous to last week they were running between 5-10ppm BEFORE my water changes.

My pH is high at 8.2, and I have hard water (KH = 9d, GH =14d) but I thought the longer acclimation would do ok and it doesn't explain (to me) why the panda would die.

The panda I lost today was one of the 1.5" so I wouldn't call him a "baby" which could be another reason for his demise. I checked his poor little body and there was nothing at all out of the ordinary - no marks, no deformities (that I could see).

I just don't get it

 

[Creamhorses]

When you say you lost 12 neon's.did you find them dead or were they missng?

I agree with Tong........this does not seem like a 'normal' 1 or 2 dies situation. There's something wrong in the 'house'. Hope you find out what's wrong!!!


CH

 

[joannde]

Oh the 12 neon's that died was over the entire 7 week period. I started with 6, lost a couple, added three more, lost a few ... then a few more ... then a few more ..... over weeks.

Two had heart attacks when I did a water change - one got sucked into the gravel vac and although I released him quickly it was too much for him. The other one just started doing somersaults right in front of me. Heart attack is the only way I can explain it - the temp and pH were the same as the tank. Most mysteriously vanished without a body to be found but since I have so many snails I would think they became overnight food.

So I'd say on average I've lost 2 fish per week. Have only lost 1 platy and that was early on, so it could have just been weaker than the others.

I did have very mild ick about 4 weeks ago (two spots on one platy) but I heat treated it and kept the heat up for 2 weeks after the last white spot was gone. Haven't seen any ick spots on anyone else since.

I feel like such a terrible mommy

 

[verucaproduce]

You aren't a terrible mommy. But it sounds like something is up in your tank. Maybe I missed it. Did you say how big the tank was?

I think my advice at this point would be to stop adding any fish until you can pinpoint what might be wrong.

How did you treat the ich?

 

[joannde]

Tank size is in my sig, sorry - 29G.

For the ick I raised the temp (slowly) to 88 degrees. The white spots were gone after 2 days and I left the tank temp up for a total of 3 weeks, so it was a few days longer than the "two weeks till after white spots are gone" recommendation.

Other than the otos the two most recent additions are the 0.75" panda cories (2 weeks ago) and so far (KNOCK WOOD) they're ok. So if they're ok then I have no reason why the older / larger one would die .... I really love those panda cories and it bothers me big time when one dies (can you tell ? LOL).

Oh and I did have 4 guppies that I had added about 3 wks ago (had forgot about them !) - but three died and I returned the fourth (the three that died had lost all their color from midbody on - including their tail fins - everyone who responded to my post on that said it was probably stress).

At least my bettas are happy - 2 are now building me nice bubble nests The other three are slow to catch on LOL (4 are in a divided 10G with Java Ferns and Java Moss - as well a handmade ceramic cave, the fifth has his own 2.5G in the kitchen - he has a cave too).

I agree with you about the adding fish - I'm not going to do that until everyone is stable for a month ! I feel like singing "only the strong survive" when it comes to this tank !!!

 

[Devilishturtles]

Could be a hidden bacterial issue in the tank, and as of now that's all that makes sense. I've even seen, on fish "health"sites that "unexplained losses" are attributed to internal bacterial infections. Unless treated it will continue to thrive in your tank.

You could try treating the tank with a course of broad spectrum antibiotics, possibly maracyn and maracyn-two together. Keep an eye on water parameters during the time, it can and probably will alter your water chemistry.

Just my opinion of course. Seems like there is not much left to try.

Hope this helps...and sorry about your continued bad luck.

 

[joannde]

I bought some medicated fish food to have on hand just in case, so I have Jungle Talk Anti-Bacterial and Anti-Parasite food in the fridge. It doesn't say what the active ingredients for the Anti-Bacterial food are are but it does say "not for saltwater invertibrates". I assume if it was unsafe for my snails it would have said "do not use on inverts" (without specifically calling out SW).
I would assume that food would have less impact on the biofilter than water treatment meds - or is that a really bad assumption ?

Should I try the food ? I'm sort of afraid to use it .... good grief, can I change my username to "worrywart" ??

 

[Devilishturtles]

Don't be afraid to use it, but if its something in your water you are going to need to wipe it out. The medicated food won't do that. Meds can sometimes be harmful yes, in that they are sometimes stressful on your fish and can affect the water. But right now, I don't really see any other option for you, knowing how much trouble you've had in the past. Sometime is definitley up.

HTH

 

[joannde]

My fishy medicine cabinet also has Pimafix and Melafix. The Melafix is an antbacterial and says it is invert safe and won't affect the bio-filter. Are those only for external infections ??? Do you think I should use that or go with the antibiotics ?
(it figures that the only thing I DON"T have on hand are Maracyn and Maracyn II ! and I thought I was prepared HA !)

********** EDIT
And WHERE are my manners !!!! Thank you all SO MUCH for your support and advice. I really do appreciate it.

*********** ANOTHER EDIT

Just found 2 more panda's dead .... I can't take it .......

 

[HannahJ]

Do you have naything in your tank that could be leeching chemicals that wouldn't show up in your average test kit? You know, decorations that weren't instended for the aquarium, etc. Or maybe you've got some sort of chemicals in the room? A spray air freshener, or something? In my opinion, though, it sounds like this tank has gone sour. It happened to one of mine a few months back with mysterious deaths, too, which I decided to blame on the UGF, and I just ended up setting up a whole new tank. You might consider just doing the same. It'll cost more money, but will save you in heartache.

 

[joannde]

The only thing I can think of is the ceramic pot I added to the tank on Friday - but I used food safe glazes on it. I'm taking it out RIGHT NOW. I also used EcoComplete in the pot, but that should be ok.
No air fresheners or anything like that.
The ceramics wouldn't explain the past deaths however and my bettas have ceramic caves with the same glaze - so I really do doubt that's it.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[JustOneMore20]

Did you do fishless cycling and then add the panda cories, or did you have them in the tank while it was cycling. I'm assuming you did fishless, but thought I'd ask.

I don't really know what would cause the cory's sudden death. If it was only 1.5 inches, then it wouldn't be full grown yet, so it wasn't old age. And you aren't overstocked either (sorry, thinking out loud). Very strange. It seems there are a few posts like this where people have mysterious deaths.

The panda cory profile I looked at says their pH range only goes up to 7.5. But I've heard a stable pH is better than an ideal pH and I don't think it would take 7 weeks for the pH to kill any.

Sorry I can't help and sorry about your losses....I know its very frustrating when you lose fish but can't pinpoint the reason.

 

[chotie]

questions:
1. how long has the tank been setup? and cycled?
2. fish dying continuously either had a problem coming from the LFS or its your tank. im betting its your tank.
3. please list:
a. tank size
b. tank inhabitants
c. temp you keep tank
d. filter, substrate, heater, air pump
e. medications or live plants added
f. how you found each fish (dead)

there a couple of things i am thinking could be suspect:
1. your acclimation methods might be off. do you do the "bag in water" acclimation method?
2. your LFS is stocking fish that are unhealthy (could be, but unlikely)
3. you have a bacterial infection running in tank (possible)

try to give us more information.

 

[hulkamaniac]

I'll make you feel better here. Panda cories are very sensitive for cory cats. I know most people think cory cats are pretty hardy and by and large they are, but pandas aren't. I bought half a dozen once and 5 died within a week. The others followed thereafter. I've had similar luck w/otos (bought 6, one week later had 0) and while I've never had neons, I've tried keeping cardinals with no luck either. I, like you, have hard water as well.