EI dosing for non-CO2 tank?

[jsoong]

First some history ... This is my 70 gal planted goldies tank (actually more like 60 gal of water with the rocks, etc). I set this up 2 years or so ago with a peat/gravel substrate. Initially plants were doing great, except that I was having algae problems. After finding out that my NO3 was bottoming out to zero, I started dosing KNO3, and things were doing fine for a while. For the last 3 months the tank had gone south. plants were dying, algae took over, and even my trusty hornworts had died back to 1/10 its previous size.

Since I was planning to revamp the overflow, I took the opportunity to completely redo the whole tank. Current specs:

70 gal (norminal) + sump - estimate total water volume around 80 gal.
pH 7.8, with matching KH & GH (ie in the 150-200 ppm range)
temp 24 C
NO CO2 added
4x32 W T8's (full sprectrum) ... approx 2 wpg
substrate - Profile (schultz aquatic soil)
filtration - DIY wet/dry 750 gph rated return pump (~600 actual)
PWC - weekly 20%
plants - 5x swords, 2x apongentin, 2x crypts, 1x Anubias, 4x Vals, 1 bunch each Cabomba & moneywort, what's left of my hornwort, plus a dozen Java ferns (babies).

I really like how the tank looks now with all the new plants & little algae (only set up for 1 week, so hope things don't go bad). Since I had problem with NO3 bottoming out with far less plant mass before, I expect to need to dose ferts. <Esp. now that I have cleaned out the whole tank & removed most of the Mulm & dirt>

I've been reading about the EI method & trying to adapt it to a non-CO2 tank. For simplicity, I would like to dose weekly (with my pcw). I've got a hydroponic trace/fert mix plus KNO3. To start I figure I would add:
0.05 ppm Fe (plus rest of the trace)
7 N
1 P
7 K
each week.

Do you think this is a reasonable amount to achieve good plant growth & keep algae in check? Would it be better with different dosing schedule or proportions?

 

[mr funktastic]

more k and more N. and i would split it up into 2 doses. i would get your N up to 20 ppm and the dose 5 2X per week but also do a test to roughly see how much your plants are using. K can also be high in the 20 ppm range since overdosing wont affect anything. just my opinion though. i am also new to the dosing thing.

 

[fish_4_all]

If you really want to dose once someone else will have to recommend levels. I dose 0.2-0.3ppm iron every other day along with 10ppm NO3, .5ppm PO4 and 15ppm K every other day. Medium light tank, 3+ w/g on 10 gallon tanks.

If I had to guess, I would say 20ppm NO3, 1.5ppm PO4, 20ppm K and traces to .4ppm iron but this is a guess using my calculator and a 20% water change instead of 50%.

This is a total guess and you will need to adjust your dosing for deficiencies and also for the fact you are doing 20% instead of 50% water changes

 

[malkore]

it sounds reasonable, but you'll have to see how fast your tank decides to use up nutrients.

I'd also suggest excel since you're not running CO2. or if you can find it, 25% pure Gluteraldehyde, which is the active ingredient in Excel.

 

[Plantbrain]

Malkore likely has a good routine there for you using Excel.
Might get a tad $$ over time on a larger tank, Big Al's sells the excel in 4 liter jugs: 37.99$.

You can run EI at 1/2-1/3 dosings with Excel, do full weekly 50% water changes and the Goldies will be fine, plants will be and no algae to speak of.

If you want to run a non CO2 tank, probably better off getting a large Canister filter, 300-400gph. No water changes at all and with either method(Excel or not): pack plenty of plants in there.

Non CO2/non Excel methods are suited for balanced tanks, lighter fish loads or at least balanced ones where the NO3 does not climb.

For such tanks, dosing once a week is suitable, a routine would run like this for your 75gal:

No water changes
Top off for evaporation with tap
Prune as needed, topping etc.
Net out and fluff any dead plant leaves
Add weekly:
1/8 teaspoon or a tad more depending KNO3
Smidge of KH2PO4
5-10mls of traces
GH booster (www.GregWatson.com) 1/4 teaspoon

Not too tough and covers all the bases without running anything too low for too long at these slower CO2 limiting growth rates.

If anything builds up, stop dosing for a week or two and note and watch plant growth carefully.

Give the plants a few days before passing judgement.
Alage eaters are particularly useful in non CO2 planted tanks and lower light set ups, why? Algae grows slower also.

So that will free you up to focus and watch the plants more and see when they get hungry: slowed lulls in growth, lower leaves, brittle stems, some species not doing as well etc

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[MarkP]

I'd also suggest excel since you're not running CO2. or if you can find it, 25% pure Gluteraldehyde, which is the active ingredient in Excel.

Do you know of anyone who has done this? I was just recently considering it myself, but found information suggesting that Glutaraldehyde is used to sterilize laboratory instruments and that what Seachem uses is a specific isomer of Glutaraldehyde which differs from what might be generally available.

 

[Purrbox]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=77876&highlight=gluteraldehyde

 

[jsoong]

Malkore likely has a good routine there for you using Excel.
Might get a tad $$ over time on a larger tank, Big Al's sells the excel in 4 liter jugs: 37.99$.

I am considering Excel, at least for the first while until the plants get big, then I might scale the Excel back and let the plants grow slowly (less pruning!)

Your price for Excel must be US Big Al's. In Canada, the 4 l Excel at Big Al's is $69 (even with a 90 cent dollar, that is still $63 US!) I am going to my local hydroponics store & see what they have (thier prices are 1/2 or less than a lfs). The generic gluteraldehyde is a good idea as well, although I wouldn't know where to get something like that.

Thanks for all the input everyone!