Emersed growth advice?

[czcz]

This morning pH was still over my test, as to be expected.

Again, I've know little about cement, but for the sake of discussion, I'm using water softener with the idea that whatever impurities are in the concrete will leech into the water column, hardening the water. The water softener is meant to increase how much can be leeched into the water. pH is used to measure at what point the concrete stops leeching. All these ideas come from cichlid-forum archives but makes sense to me. I believe those using SW, water softeners, or straight tap are doing total daily water changes. I would assume it's the salts in SW that is said to help. Is this flawed logic jcarlilesiu?

Tonight I might stop by HD and look at some piping to figure out a way to wick up water to the planting pots with mosses, as experienced crypt growers have recommended not to saturate the potting media for healthiest growth and flowering. Just brainstorming alternatives while I wait for the cement to cure.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

I only state what i know about concrete based on my Architectural knowledge. How it reacts submersed and how it will affect the livestock of an aquarium i don't know. The only concerns i have is that the concrete isn't allowed the full time to cure. The time the concrete takes to cure is not based on the thickness of the concrete, because its the chemical reaction that takes time. if you submerse the concrete prior to this chemical reaction to finish, you are essentially adding more water than what is necessary and this can effect how the concrete cures.

I do however have one question... how thick is the concrete you are applying to the foam? 1/4"... 1/2" ... im just curious

On second thought... in no way does that concrete eliminate water from reaching the styrofoam. Being that concrete is like a sponge, the water will eventually reach the styrofoam, and this will eventually break down. Thus yoru concrete is hollow... im just guessing here that is what will happen. Maybe not, let me know

 

[tetrin]

after a few googles, it seems if extruded styrofoam is used, its impervious to water. however, expanded styrofoam would degrade slowly in contact with water. i think the 2" styro usually used in these projects are extruded styro from lowe's etc hardware stores.

 

[czcz]

jcarlilesiu, on average about 1/8-1/4" on the sides. Bottom of the planting areas are thicker and are probably a shade thicker than 1/4". Each layer was more soupy than thick. If I wait a month to ensure the cement is cured, it still acts like a sponge and is prone to slowly breaking down? I appreciate your knowledge and am only applying it to what I undertand from others who've built such structures as DIY backgrounds.

Arin, thanks for the research, man. All the planting areas at the end of the structure are a little deeper than 3 1/2" from the highest point, but after widening the river it dips under 2 1/2" between planting areas -- forgot to update earlier

On a side note, I had an interesting discussion with a homegrown *cough* type who suggested running piping with holes on the top half, then rock wool for the plantlets. I'm thinking fitting the holes for traditional ~2" planters filled with moss for emersed growth may be neat. I'll work on top off system and plumbing this weekend and will have pics up, and may slap something together so plants get a head start on emersed growth while the concrete cures.

 

[tetrin]

i love the homegrown types . i frequent a store here who has tons of info on breeding fish and more importantly, cichlids.
anyway, back to the point. i think rockwool works well with growing most plants to a point where they need a better substrate. but i'm not sure if the emersed growth of the proposed plants would be needing them. if it doesn't work out, changing it might be a hassle. ok, i think i have displayed my inexperince pretty well, so....i'll stop now. waiting for pix... .

 

[czcz]

I've been really lazy so sorry for being slow with updates.

Its been raining here so I'm curing it on the roof -- don't tell my neighbors I got a cool piece of driftwood that will go into the main, too.

Here's my half-* way of getting some plants started on emersed growth. The planter is 18" wide but had to remove the right lip to fit it in the tank. The pipe connects to main's drain. It may be a real dumb idea but hopefully it works out.

Layers of eggcrate. Top has mesh to keep substrate from falling:

Mulm and junk from another tank:

Topped off with Schultz. Followed this by rinsing the whole thing, then realized that was dumb because I'm also rinsing out mulm :/ The substrate is clouding up the whole system anyway:

Cleaned out the sump but didn't clean the tank -- please excuse. It's sitting on a plexi jar. I'll have hard piping in later. The furthest right pipe is for auto top off adapted from Dave's ECS:

May need to have a lid to keep humidity. Have not purchased new lights yet (just using spiral screw-in CFL) so all lower light species at the moment that will hopefully adapt to emersed growth okay -- crypts, anubias, l. repens.
Left:

Right:

Entry to auto top-off system. Just test fitting. I was originally thinking of using a 5g water jug with a spout connected to the piping (all sealed), but it will be better if I find some airtight container I dont need to pull down to refill.

Thanks again for all the ideas and encouragement.

 

[travis simonson]

Looking good Joe I'm really anxious to see how your emersed growth goes (especially the Crypts). It would be amazing to see some inflorescences.

 

[Xzap]

Totally awesome

Dave

 

[czcz]

Thanks!

Travis, man if it happens I'm going to jump up and down. I'll add update pics of growth with the current layout. I'm very interested in even the transformation to emersed growth.

Took a pic of my new favorite plant, Downoi, just because I'm bored

It's another I'm very excited about trying emersed once lights and the structure are in. From siamensis.org:

 

[czcz]

Had to take it out and increase exit holes as it caused a backflow/bubbling issue and lots of the plants got burried. Problem solved. Heres how they look now -- not too good.

Cutting a temporary lid tonight and replanting -- I wish I could cut it for the curing structure but the current layout's entry pipe messes that up. Thinking of adding elbows to it as a workaround. More pics tomorrow.

 

[czcz]

Sorry for delay. Lid's in but I think this is a picture of failure -- the plants sink into the substrate, maybe I'm moving too much water through the thing or need something more subtantial than Schultz. Attempting again with new plantlets, but keeping the old ones in too in hopes the recover. Perhaps the plants are upset they've been messed with too often while adapting to emersed growth. I hope the paludarium works with plantls in mosses :/

 

[travis simonson]

Well don't give up yet Joe. You know how Crypts can be touchy but then spring right back from the rhizome.

 

[czcz]

I won't give up I've had the planter on my mind all day but no new ideas. I'm just killing time -- pH on the paludarium is still over my test but closer to the scale, at least. I hit the 27 day curing point right before Halloween, so may not progress on the real attempt until November... curing time :censor:

 

[czcz]

I might be a day or two early on the 27 day curing point for concrete, but the structure is no longer raising pH and this is my only chance to play with it for a few days, so cheated Have not yet decided what to grow submerged.

Issues:

Flow had to be drastically lowered as it's the only way I can get the paludarium to work with Durso standpipe on main. Estimate 125gph is moving through the tructure (planned on ~200gph).

Pelia and stuff is floating around from when everything got messed up after main tank had flushing effect (before lowering flow). Will clean this up later.

Using Schultz under mosses, as otherwise the plants moved too much in the current.

The first sections overflow at the sides. There's still good flow for the river.

NOISE. Moss at drain output helps a little.

Shallow planting area is empty because I have not figured out how to keep Anubias in there.

Lighting is 2x13w AHSupply from the main. Expecting JBJ CF this week.

No progress on auto top off system yet.

Will update in a few days.

Planter experiment has potential I think. If I ever try it again, little planters over the eggcrate instead of a layer of Schultz would be wiser. After no recovery I tossed those plants.

 

[Xzap]

That is too cool CZ

dave

 

[rich311k]

That is gonna look great.

 

[Zagz]

Looking really good! Impressive!

 

[travis simonson]

Killer job Joe I can't wait to see how the emersed plants look. I've always wanted to try a paludarium and this only makes me want to do it even more. You've got a very unique idea with the water flow through the emersed planting, I'm anxious to see the results.

 

[czcz]

Thanks.

Travis - I want you to try one, too. Even the blue plate special thread was inspiring.

 

[Jchillin]

Looking good buddy! Keep in mind, I'm keeping tabs on this project.