First problem with new tank set up.

[Lt.]

I have five Australian rainbow fish that don't seem to want to eat. They haven't eaten more than a flake or two per piece in a week. Not that I don't try to feed them once or twice a day.

 

[Sloanhaus]

Change the food. Try different types of food until you find something they like.

 

[Mrc8858]

How new is this setup because if jot cycled properly you may have high nitrites or ammonia which will cause them to stop eating? How did you cycle the tank?

 

[Lt.]

It's a month old, I put them in after four or five days of letting the tank cycle and settle. Then I put a new filter in at the same time I put them in. I have a standard charcoal filter, nothing undergravel, though I'm saving up for a good one. They ate the normal fish flakes great for 2.5 or 3 weeks, but now they eat what I'd describe as a snack compared to their previous voracious appetites.

 

[Borderlesscott]

If you put a new filter in the day you added the fish, this was the day your cycle would have started - you probably are only half way through. Have you checked the water with any test kits?

 

[Ahisma]

Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle?

It sounds like you let the tank filter run for a week, but that is not a "cycle." when I first got my tank I went to petco and a guy there, speaking with utmost authority, told me that letting the water cycle through the filter was "cycling." it's not!

My guess is that your tank is at the nitrite portion of the cycle and your fish are having a hard time. Have you done any water changes?

Don't worry too much... All you have to do is search for info on cycling a tank, nitrogen cycle and fishless cycle.

Do a 30% water change. I say 30% because it is significant, but not too drastic... Make sure you have a water dechlorinator product before you change any water (Stress Coat is good as far as I know).

Then go straight to the shop to get an API test kit. I got the test strips and I'm finding they are not accurate. Although, they are better than nothing!

You've gotten yourself into a bit of a chemistry science project with fish keeping.

Here's the nitrogen cycle in a nutshell:
Fish eliminate ammonia through their gills. This is their waste, other than poop. There are bacteria present in your tap water that will eat the ammonia. Initially, there are not enough of these bacteria, but as they get more ammonia, they will increase in number. The bacteria will live on your gravel and in your filter. With a charcoal filter, you will want to NOT change your cartridge so that it will become a "bio filter." (google that term as well)

I got the thumbs up on my same filter setup from the guys at Wet Web Media, so you know this is good advice. I also have a sponge filter. Extra filtration is good.

Back to cycle: Once the bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrite, there are bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate. Fish cannot tolerate ammonia or nitrite, but low levels of nitrate are normal. You remove tank water and put fresh, dechlorinated water in to remove nitrate. Live plants can help keep nitrate low.

It normally takes about 5 weeks for a cycle to complete from the presence of ammonia to conversion to nitrate. In order to speed this up, you can get some gravel or filter media from an established tank, if you know someone who will give it to you.

It sounds like your tank is almost through the cycle. Test your water for ammonia, nitrite, ph, chlorine, kh, and nitrate. If you are testing the water through the whole cycle, you will see a rise in ammonia, with no nitrite/nitrate. After a week or so, you will see the ammonia begin to drop and the nitrite begins to rise. Then the ammonia will go to zero, and nitrites will be high for 2-3 weeks. Then they will drop as you begin to see the presence of nitrate.

What makes this cycle take so long is that you will be doing water changes to keep your ammonia levels and nitrite levels down to a lower toxicity level for the fish. The test will tell you what levels are acceptable during the cycle and what is dangerous. If you do a fishless cycle, it will take much less time because you can turn up your heater and do no water changes. Search for info on a fishless cycle.

I hope this is helpful! If you already know all of this, I greatly apologize! It just sounds like, from your post, that you were unaware... Most likely from the fish store people misleading you. I swear it must be corporate policy to not tell customers about the nitrogen cycle so that you will not be afraid of having a tank. I bet it would scare off some people because of all of the actual work involved in fish keeping.

Good luck to you!

 

[Lt.]

Thanx ashima, I thought cycleing wad letting the tank tank settle and the water to be filtered for a few days to a week.
Also, so this is the cause of my fish not eating much?

 

[Dreadz]

As Ahisma said you need to get yourself a test kit, i too would recommend the API master test kit and test your water at least once a day until you're certain your cycle has finished. The test results will guide you as to how much water needs to be changed.
For a fish in cycle you need to balance the presence of toxic ammo/nitrIte in your tank with the ideal needs of your fish. Ideally ammo/nitrIte would be 0 but this would cause your cycle to stall by starving the bacteria you are trying to develop within your filter.
I have just finished a fish in cycle and throughout it I aimed to carry out PWC's as soon as ammo/nitrite registered at 0.25ppm, replacing with water matched as closely as possible (ph, temp and obviously dechlorinated and conditioned) to minimise stress as much as possible.
Don't panic if your levels register at more than that, just change more water. You can't harm your cycle by changing too much water, the bacteria your cultivating clings to surfaces like your filter media so you won't be emptying your tank of the bacteria you want, but you will get rid of the toxins you don't really want (at high levels anyway). On a few occasions I had to change 90% water volume (if you test at 1.0ppm a 50% pwc still leaves you at 0.5ppm which can still stress your fish, a 90% pwc however will reduce that level to 0.1ppm which is far more tolerable for your fish).
I can also recommend tetra Safestart. It's bacteria in a bottle that should help speed the cycle up and also reduce (possibly prevent) spikes in the levels of toxic ammo/nitrite. It worked for me. You could alternatively try Dr Tims One and only. Same idea, not tried that one but they're the only two that really seem worth the money, but even so, there's still no substitute for testing and PWC's.
Hope that helps.

 

[Ahisma]

Yes, your fish are suffering from too much exposure to ammonia and/or nitrite. Did you get your test kit yet? Ammonia can burn the fish's gills and can cause fin rot. Also lethargic behavior.

What the other person said is correct, you can do lots of water changes to keep your levels of ammonia or nitrite down. My guess is that you might already have 0 ammonia and that you have high nitrite. The test kit will tell you what levels are acceptable and what is dangerous. It will be very hard to eliminate all the nitrite and you really don't want to bring it to 0 because you need the bacteria to multiply, thus completing the cycle.

If you do some more searches you will find diagrams and more info to have this all make sense. Resist the urge to ask fish store people. Most give bad info... Even though it's nice to talk to someone in person...

I'd ask them questions and then research their answers and find out they are full of bs. One told me to never do water changes. One told me to medicate cories for ick when they were exposed, but didn't have it. One told me to keep changing my charcoal filter. Another told me that bettas cannot be community fish and that they need to be in small bowls... I could go on. This is all total nonsense! And it all would involve me spending more money.... Although fish are kind of expensive even when you do the right thing, so really these people just don't know what they are talking about! Oh and they have all told me to not believe anything I read online! Ha!!

So it's not your fault and most likely your fish will perk up after a good water change. If not, now you know... And can do lots of research. If you find multiple sources with the same info, it's likely true. Wet web media is all experts who write for fish keeping magazines, so that is a good resource.

Yahoo forums seem to be all teenagers that don't fact check, but will play expert, so take that with a grain of salt.

Best wishes, and I hope your fish make it!

Send an update and any other questions.

 

[Lt.]

Ok, they seem to be doing better now, I plan on getting a basic test kit tomorrow, I just don't see the need for a master kit when the tanks only 20 gallons with 6 relatively small fish, and there hardy species on top of that too. And thanx for the input and info on the Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle.

But to get this straight I'm not to change the charcoal filter on this filter, like the instructions said?

 

[Mrc8858]

Whenever you swap out cartridges your removing the majority of your beneficial bacteria which can lead to a mini cycle (couple days of high ammonia and nitrites)

 

[Lt.]

I suppose it'll be ok since I only do a filter change every month-month and a half, right?

 

[Mrc8858]

I suppose it'll be ok since I only do a filter change every month-month and a half, right?

The best way to do it is add your new cartridge a couple days before removing your old one if possible because when you take out the old cartridge you remove so much BB that they can't keep up causing your ammo and trites to spike

 

[Lt.]

OH, I never thought of that. Thanx

 

[shellieca]

If you want to keep your fish healthy & happy I would strongly urge you to get a liquid water test kit. When I fish IN cycled a 46g & a 10g I tested the water daily & did water changes as the tests indicated. I did not lose one fish nor did they ever act as if they were stressed in any way. Every filter says to change it out about every 4-6 weeks however if you swish the cartridge around in the USED tank water when you do a water change (weekly or every 2 weeks) it will last a really long time. Only change it out when it is absolutely falling apart. Putting in a new filter can cause a mini-cycle which can cause spikes in ammonia & nitrites which in turn can harm if not kill your fish.

 

[Ahisma]

I agree with what the others are saying. I think you can fit two filter cartridges in the filter, so you can put the new one after the old one, in the direction of the water flow. This will push bacteria on to the new filter. Also, you can add a piece of filter media in the filter compartment. You can buy floss or things that look like scrubby sponges (don't use anything not meant for fish, as it could contain toxic contaminants). You can just place this media anywhere in the filter compartment where water will flow through it (preferably before the main cartridge) this way you will keep some bacteria when you change the filter. Still, only change it when it's ready to fall apart. *

* actually. It just occurred to me that you could probably make your own cartridge using the carbon in the cartridge and something that will hold it in place on the cartridge frame. I bet there are instructions for this out there already!

You really don't want to mess with your cycle by removing the largest source of bacteria that you have.

Ok, about the test kit... Get one. At least get strips. I ended up with a liquid test for ammonia because I was finding ammonia in my water 7 months after my tank was cycled. The tap water had higher ammonia in it temporarily. You never know when something like this can happen.

It's very easy to do the tests. Just takes a few seconds...