Fish breathing fast

[catmel]

Any idea what causes fish to have rapid gill movements? The reason I ask is because I've done a ton of research and read lots of books /online info since I've started my tank and nothing comes to mind that fits whats going on.

parameters:
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate between 10-20ppm
ph between 8.2 and 8.4
temp 78 degrees
S.G - between 1.022 and 1.023
emperor 400 filter, 2 powerheads equalling about 400gph ( both pointed up at the surface) , coralife super skimmer 65

I only have four small-ish fish in the tank ( equalling about 10 inches of fish I believe) , and two of the four seem to be having rapid gill movements. They arn't gasping at the top of the tank, and still seem to be eating.I also have about 60# of live rock in the tank as well. Im wondering if maybe they're stressed and need more hiding spots? I noticed the one isnt swimming as fast as it use to around the tank, but is otherwise ok. No noticable spots, parasites etc. I was just a bit concerned. Any idea?

 

[roka64]

Hmmm, can you take a sample of your water to get another test done? What fish do you have in there and which two are having issues?
Usually heavy breathing could be caused by ammonia, poor pH or the lack of O2 (but your readings don't indicate those issues). Possible internal infection or parasite?
Have you had any swings in temp?

 

[catmel]

Temp seems pretty steady at 78 degrees. I've tested the water twice and got the same parameters. I'm beginning to think it may be some sort of parasite ( though I can't seem to see any). I, yes, do have a small yellow tang i've had for about a month and a half now ( about 3") I do plan to get a larger tank down the road when i'm ready to build a full reef and do corals.

PH was pretty high a few weeks ago around 8.8 because of source water, but I tested it today, seemed to be between 8.2-8.4 -gradually ( as best as I can tell) lowered by topping off with store bought gallons of ro/di water - about half gallon a day.

The coral beauty seems to be breathing a bit heavier than the clowns ( who as far as I can tell are breathing normally), but the tang seems to be breathing the fastest. ( so stock: one coral beauty, two clowns and a small yellow tang) I did put him in Qt several weeks ago to try to treat for what I thought was intestinal parasites ( he still has a bit of stringy poop that I noticed today, he was ficking off with his anal fins) I had treated with metronidazole, prazipro and had tried some panacur in suspension ( mixed well. Given with help from innovator as well), since he was too smart for his own good and didnt want to eat panacur in the food.. I used the meds according to direction. I might just have to get some garlic guard and add to the frozen food with panacur.

 

[roka64]

I don't have my handbook of fish diseases by Dieter Untergasser (great book to have and easy to read), at home, so hopefully some one that has one handy can be of further assistance. I am usually online at work (shhhh!) so that's where a lot of my reference materials are.

 

[rob28]

are the gills swollen?

do the fins look eroded?

are they eyes popping out ?

are they listing to one side?

are any of them flashing? meaning are they accelerating quickly and scraping the sides of their bodies on stuff?

 

[catmel]

Nope - not popeye ( eyes are fine), not going to one side, swimming fine, gills as far as I can tell arn't inflammed and no erroded fins. He's not losing color. Breathing fast out of both gills, with mouth open. However, he is not gasping for air at the surface. See why i'm stumped?

Ive actually read that book It is pretty good, Im about to go to the library and get it again.. (i've read all the saltwater fish books there, including the one about ocean fish hah)

I did notice the tang trying to get the stringy poo ( white, stringy) off earlier, but thats about it ( rubbed his bottom end on a rock once). I'm going to go out tomorrow and get some garlic guard or garlic extreame and add it to the food with dewormer to see if it'll help. He wont eat it with the meds otherwise. Gills dont seem inflammed, I dont see any flukes/ spots, though I know some can be microscopic. He just swims around with his mouth open and gills flapping. It worries me. I didn't think intestinal parasites could cause breathing issues, but I'm at a loss as to what could be causing it with good water and no external sign of parasites besides the stringy poop.

this guy was initially QT'd for 3 weeks ( some rapid breathing at first, was ok after adjusting) then 1 week QT with general dewormers after a few weeks in the main.

QT and try and treat for possible gill flukes ( if so how?) or try the garlic+dewormer+food? blah! lol..

 

[catmel]

Got up early this morning, ( lights off in tank) noticed the tang still breathing somewhat rapidly , but not nearly as fast as last night with the lights on. I might try and get a bit more live rock and make more hiding places for him as well and see if it helps, as well as try the garlic combo ( with dewormer).

Heck might give me a reason to go buy a bigger tank sooner than I expected LOL.. (I was looking to get a 100 + gallon a year or two down the road)

Any more suggestions welcome. Thanks for the help so far

 

[rob28]

wow.....i dunno. i really stumped. sorry, i cant help

 

[catmel]

Ok after turning on the lights I noticed the tang rubbing his face against the rocks and breathing heavy, I'm beginning to think some sort of gill parasite - freshwater dip or treatment in the QT with a medication?

 

[rob28]

well, if he is "flashing", thats a sign of ich.

 

[rob28]

im a freshwater guy so im not sure if the treatment differs from that of saltwater.

 

[roka64]

im a freshwater guy so im not sure if the treatment differs from that of saltwater.

It's a little different. Heating the tank does only help to accelerate the life cycle but will greatly reduce the O2 so that is not a good option for SW. QT with hyposalinity is the best method IMO.
Just a little info for you rob.

 

[rob28]

ty

 

[catmel]

I highly doubt its ich. I've delt with ich unfortunatly when I started my tank, made sure not to have that in the main again, hense why I require at least 3 weeks QT for all new arrivals. After further observation, the other fish ( the coral beauty) was breathing normal. I must have spooked him, he was breathing normal later on. No one is flashing and they're all eating like pirannahs heh.

Again, I know its not ich. I kept this guy in the QT for 3 weeks before putting him in the main tank. No signs of heavy breathing, no signs of spots, was eating great until real recently, he eats but not as much as he use to. After doing some research, it sounds a lot like a gill problem / gill parasite. I did a freshwater dip and now have him in the QT for observation.

Ive also read that some bacterial infections can possibly cause rapid breathing. If no improvement after a few days would any of you maybe suggest trying an antibiotic?

I'll let you guys know how he does and what turns out from it all. Thanks for trying to help

 

[Innovator]

The white and stringy excrement is a sign of intestinal parasites, nematodes, as you have already alluded to, but the scratching of gills and behavioral characteristics you've witnessed can also interpret mongenean trematodes. Digenean trematode infestations can result in damage of the gills if heavy in concentration while monogeneans usually attack the respiratory and skin. Unfortunately, this also means your other fish are susceptible since it is communicable from fish to fish. My recommendation is to lower the salinity below 20ppt (might as well hypo) and medicate the quarantine with praziquantel. The dosage for mono's is: 10mg/l for 3hrs and repeat in a week. You could, in fact, perform the previous dosage in a separate vessel and provide a longterm dosage within the main qt tank of 2mg/l for 24hrs. This way both nematode and cestode infections will be addressed and the salinity reduction will help reduce the reproduction phases. You can also gut-load live adult brine shrimp with fenbendazole (panacur) at 25mg/kg of body weight daily for 3 days (not sure if you actually tried that method). Prazi can also be fed orally at 50mg/kg of body weight for one day treatment. Not sure which route you want to go, but if prazi does not work you may eventually have to peform formalin baths.

Edit* All dosages provided by E. Noga.

 

[austinsdad]

Check the pec fins real good too for fine grains of sand looking stuff. That's where you see marine velvet showing up first. Unlike ick, it starts in the gills first and kills fast. Hopefully you haven't got that, but the fast breathing w/out ammonia present makes me wonder.

Any new additions to the tank recently?

 

[catmel]

Innovator to the rescue again Thanks SO much!

I have not tried gut loading brine, Since I have him in QT I will certainly try it this time. I did a freshwater bath on him for 5 minutes and dosed the QT with prazi-pro as stated on the back of the bottle. I'll dose in a week again, as also stated. The little guy seems to be breathing a bit better, I believe ( although still a bit stressed from the whole ordeal). I'll keep you updated.

No new additions recently, and other fish seem to be fine, but I will certainly keep an eye on them.

 

[catmel]

Update: Yellow tang still breathing really fast. I went out and bought some Mayacin one and two and dosed the tank. I am stumped!! And quite honestly very frustrated.
Hes looking a bit thin, because of not eating for almost a week now.

I dont see any spots and havent yet, but i'm about to dose with Copper. I just dont know what else to do. I know sometimes you just get unlcky and cant save em all ( even the best vets cant ) but aahh! He's still alive, I'd like to try and save him..

 

[melosu58]

Look real close at him and see if he has black specs on him. Yellow tangs will get a black ick also. Almost looks like thin black tubes stuck in him. You have to look close. As far as feeding will he eat any dried seaweed or nori.

 

[catmel]

Ive been eyeing him so closely, no spots at all as far as I can tell. No white, no black. I've been staring at him for about 3 hours today. I put green seaweed that he had been eating before in, he wont touch it, he up unti labout a week ago, would tear it off raveniously... Hes looking pretty thin. I'm certainly worried.
Sounds kind of like broolynella symptoms, but again I dont see any spots. I dont really see excessive mucus. I'm starting to look at the lesser common things now, I'm just so stumped..he's not dead yet, but i'm just about to chuch up a $50 loss I'm trying everything I can.