Fishless Cycle Log/Rebuild - Take II

[eco23]

There was a time I thought I might never say this...but congratulations on your officially cycled tank

The NLS pellets are a great food...I also feed Hikari "algae" wafers to supplement the Corys and Ram (that's all the Bolivian Ram eats). I'd avoid the freeze dried stuff, I've heard lots of negative reviews (although I've never personally fed them). Swing by Petsmart and pick up a pack of frozen bloodworms and throw them in your freezer Some fish will munch on Blanched cucumber, zucchini, etc...but others won't touch it.

I wouldn't wait weeks between adding fish...part of fishless cycling is the ability to stock your tank immediately, and after a couple weeks the bio-filter is likely to weaken as it adjusts to the small bio-load.

You could get a bunch of dwarf Corys like Pygmies, or personally I'd go with 4-5 Pandas (which stay small...I love mine).

You can officially call yourself the owner of a fully cycled tank . Soon you'll officially be a fish keeper. We won't tell all the people you give fantastic advice to on the site that you haven't had fish all this time, haha

 

[JimmyA]

My fish enjoy frozen brine shrimp. Try some of them.

Jimmy

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks Eco! I never thought I'd say it either! Couldn't have done it without your help, you know that, right?

I was just going to wait after adding the CPDs b/c they are so shy I wanted them to feel secure before I started adding tank mates. But you're right, I shouldn't wait so long unless necessary. The only other problem is where to buy fish around here. I don't trust either PetSmart I've been to. The few LFS I've visited are either questionable and I would't trust buying fish or they don't have what I want. There is one PetCo near me that had Cobra Guppies a few weeks ago; it's a newish store (up for about 1-2 years now) and the tanks are in the middle of the floor so they aren't in a wall with a shared system (as far as I can tell). Also whenever I go there I usually see a worker with a Python tending to the fish. So if I had to buy them locally I guess I'd try there. They don't have CPDs though, so those have to be bought online (I contacted the guy today, just waiting to hear back).

So I don't need to wait to add the Corys because they don't eat algae right? And I'd give them algae wafers? (or, er, wait....do they eat algae? lol).

I really wanted Ottos. I think they are way cuter than Corys (the whiskers on the Corys kind of freak me out lol) but I dont want to attempt them. The Pandas are kind of cute, I guess. Have to think about those.

The pet stores here have frozen foods, so I can get those there. I'm guessing I'd thaw it first, right?

And, um, how do you blanch veggies? What does that mean? I'm inept at anything to do with food unless I just have to heat it up lol.

Sorry for all the questions....I'm just very excited and want to get everything PERFECT for my little guys 'n gals.

 

[librarygirl]

My fish enjoy frozen brine shrimp. Try some of them.

Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy I'll try that!

When I had my Danios (RIP ) I didn't know better and a few times a week I gave them freeze dried bloodworms. They went absolutely bonkers and would eat them out of my fingers. Then I read that freeze dried stuff can cause bloat and such. Sticking to the frozen stuff is probably safer. Thanks.

 

[barterking85]

Thanks Eco! I never thought I'd say it either! Couldn't have done it without your help, you know that, right?

I was just going to wait after adding the CPDs b/c they are so shy I wanted them to feel secure before I started adding tank mates. But you're right, I shouldn't wait so long unless necessary. The only other problem is where to buy fish around here. I don't trust either PetSmart I've been to. The few LFS I've visited are either questionable and I would't trust buying fish or they don't have what I want. There is one PetCo near me that had Cobra Guppies a few weeks ago; it's a newish store (up for about 1-2 years now) and the tanks are in the middle of the floor so they aren't in a wall with a shared system (as far as I can tell). Also whenever I go there I usually see a worker with a Python tending to the fish. So if I had to buy them locally I guess I'd try there. They don't have CPDs though, so those have to be bought online (I contacted the guy today, just waiting to hear back).

So I don't need to wait to add the Corys because they don't eat algae right? And I'd give them algae wafers? (or, er, wait....do they eat algae? lol).

I really wanted Ottos. I think they are way cuter than Corys (the whiskers on the Corys kind of freak me out lol) but I dont want to attempt them. The Pandas are kind of cute, I guess. Have to think about those.

The pet stores here have frozen foods, so I can get those there. I'm guessing I'd thaw it first, right?

And, um, how do you blanch veggies? What does that mean? I'm inept at anything to do with food unless I just have to heat it up lol.

Sorry for all the questions....I'm just very excited and want to get everything PERFECT for my little guys 'n gals.

You dint have to wait for algae you can supplement with wafers

Blanching veggies is a fancy word for boiling them put them in a bowl with some water and nuke them so all you have to do is heat them up

 

[JimmyA]

I take the frozen brine shrimp cube and cut into 4 pieces, then drop in the tank. The fish go nuts eating them. Some fish like a vegetable disk. You can break that up into 4 pieces. Shrimp like them too if you will have any.

Jimmy

 

[librarygirl]

Blanching veggies is a fancy word for boiling them put them in a bowl with some water and nuke them so all you have to do is heat them up

Really? OK well I can do that!! Thanks Ryan!! lol

 

[librarygirl]

I take the frozen brine shrimp cube and cut into 4 pieces, then drop in the tank. The fish go nuts eating them. Some fish like a vegetable disk. You can break that up into 4 pieces. Shrimp like them too if you will have any.

Jimmy

Nope. Shrimp=little aliens. Not going near my tank.

 

[eco23]

The work, commitment, dedication and patience is all you...I deserve absolutely no credit.

Corys are bottom feeders that eat food on the substrate. They'll eat leftovers that make it down there...but you definitely want to supplement their diets with wafers or sinking shrimp pellets. Some people think they're basically scavengers simply there for cleanup...but they need to be supplied their own food source. Trust me, you'll love Corys. A tank is a happy, active and playful place when they're in there.

Severum Mama just released an updated stock list with pics, it might be worth seeing if she has anything that catches your eye. The good thing with buying from her and HN1 is that all the fish are QT'd before they're shipped out, and shipping rates are very reasonable.

Blanching is when you basically boil something to the doneness you want it...then you drop it in ice water to instantly stop the cooking process. That's technically what it is...but you can also just drop it in a bowl of water and stick it in the microwave until they're pretty soft. The fish don't care about the technique

 

[JimmyA]

LOL about shrimp! Well, the brine shrimp frozen cubes are great and fish love them! Good food for fish!

Jimmy

 

[James_in_MN]

Congratulations on your cycled tank Librarygirl!

I know I suggested a PWC because I thought your nitrIte --> nitrAte conversion might have stalled, but experience varies. I imagine you could make the argument that my nitrIte was about to drop when I did my PWC's when I thought the cycle stalled.

You will have to do a significant PWC at this point since your nitrAtes are 160+. Hope you have enough spring water.

Suggestion: one of the LFS near me has an RO water dispenser that cost around $0.30 a gallon. Not sure how much you're paying for spring water, but that might be an option if you have a LFS (not a chain) that has a similar dispenser.

I still think more research should be done into your tap water. It would be good to know if the aquatic community may need to be aware of a new substance that water treatment plants are using that can make tap water virtually unusable in an aquarium.

Eco, since you work in that business, would you be able to research what may be happening here? Would it be helpful if Librarygirl sent you water samples? Could you contact her water company to find out what they might be using that's unique to the water treatment process?

It might even be helpful to contact aquarium magazines or other organizations that may be able to do a little digging of their own. I would think they'd have a vested interest in finding out if there is something new being tried in tap water that could damage the hobby.

 

[librarygirl]

Congratulations on your cycled tank Librarygirl!

I know I suggested a PWC because I thought your nitrIte --> nitrAte conversion might have stalled, but experience varies. I imagine you could make the argument that my nitrIte was about to drop when I did my PWC's when I thought the cycle stalled.

You will have to do a significant PWC at this point since your nitrAtes are 160+. Hope you have enough spring water.

Suggestion: one of the LFS near me has an RO water dispenser that cost around $0.30 a gallon. Not sure how much you're paying for spring water, but that might be an option if you have a LFS (not a chain) that has a similar dispenser.

I still think more research should be done into your tap water. It would be good to know if the aquatic community may need to be aware of a new substance that water treatment plants are using that can make tap water virtually unusable in an aquarium.

Eco, since you work in that business, would you be able to research what may be happening here? Would it be helpful if Librarygirl sent you water samples? Could you contact her water company to find out what they might be using that's unique to the water treatment process?

It might even be helpful to contact aquarium magazines or other organizations that may be able to do a little digging of their own. I would think they'd have a vested interest in finding out if there is something new being tried in tap water that could damage the hobby.

Hi James!

Thank you!

I agree this water issue is a mystery. I know others on here and more that I don't know about have tanks around here and there are plenty of LFS around, one large chain near me that must be on the same water supply (if they use it; I'd like to ask the employees there whether they use the local water), so I'm not sure what's going on. It could be something new in the water as you said. My tap water was ranked #2 best drinking water in the country. To me, clean water means more chemicals and such to make it so clean and perhaps the BB had a rough time getting a foothold. It could just be a huge coincidence, but I doubt it. I tried a seeded sponge and two seeded pads and the tank didn't move much at all; changed to spring and another seeded filter and BAM it took off and cycled in 3 weeks.

I have a 5.5 gallon tank that I'm going to cycle for ADFs; I think I may do an experiment on that tank. I'm going to pull one of the seeded sponges from my tank and try fishless cycling the ADF tank with spring water first and then once it's cycled try changing over to tap and see if the cycle holds. If it does, then at least I can change my main tank to tap and save myself a lot of hassle. If it doesn't, then I'll know it's definitely the water. It's also possible that whatever is in the water prevented the BB from taking hold but once it does then maybe the tap is safe. But I'm not going to experiment with my tank now that it's cycled.

Yeah I know I have to do some large pwc to get nitrates down lol. I'm moving my tank to a new stand this week so I have to drain the water for that. Then I'll probably have to do another if nitrates are still high.

I haven't seen any RO units at any place I've been to here, but admittedly I haven't searched for them either. The cost is a small issue but mainly lugging 5 gal drums up 15 stairs is the main problem for me. lol

 

[zparticle]

LG there is a Group buy going on here you may be able to get a good discount on an RO system like these.

Check out this thread for the group buy.

 

[eco23]

There's not much I can do on my end about the water unfortunately. We send samples out to independent labs for contaminant testing. Since we're a sales and marketing company we don't routinely test for pathogens, contaminates, etc... It's bad business to sell on fear and also a good way to get in trouble with the Federal Trade Commission. When people do have specific concerns, they can request full results which we can get done...but basically we just send it to an independent lab in town. Then the consumer can review the results and compare them to what our systems are rated to remove. Our systems are sold more on the "peace of mind" aspect...instead of "buy it or you might die", haha.

I did see that in Westerly RI they were trying a new form of water treatment which would (intentionally) cause much higher residual amounts of disinfectant to stay in the water...but it didn't look like anything Prime wouldn't have been able to deal with. There's some newer forms of treatment out there like ozone, but from everything I've seen I don't have any suspects in mind. I agree the experiment with the ADF tank will be interesting. You sure you're landlord isn't trying to poison you or anything?

Also, we still don't know if it was something in the water or lacking from the water...could be either way. Using the RO additives with the tap water to try and cycle the other tank might be the best experiment of all.

 

[librarygirl]

LG there is a Group buy going on here you may be able to get a good discount on an RO system like these.

Check out this thread for the group buy.

Woah that's great. I registered and sent Carey the PM. Thanks Z!

 

[librarygirl]

Not to keep beating a dead horse here but....the tank is still cycled. lol Double zeros again tonight. I won't post again until something major happens and/or I get fish. Just wanted to let everyone know it's still stable (I half-expected a purple tube lol).

This week I'll be busy stockpiling water and getting things ready when I get the things I ordered (stand, etc). Still trying to track down CPDs; I emailed a guy who sells them but haven't heard back yet. If I don't hear from him this week not sure what I'll do. I guess I could start with the cobra guppies (no feedback on those yet.....I'm assuming they'll be OK with the CPDs) but I wanted to start with the Celestials as they are more shy.

Also been researching different types of Cories. I like the Julii or Sterbai ones; are those OK in a 20? Not sure where I'll get them though.

I've also heard that the frozen foods can be contaminated with bacteria and cause food poisoning for the fish. Is this common? Any way to prevent it?

Ok, well, next time I post hopefully I'll have fish.

 

[zparticle]

I've also heard that the frozen foods can be contaminated with bacteria and cause food poisoning for the fish. Is this common? Any way to prevent it?

I've been feeding my fish frozen brine shrimp and blood worms without problem. I wouldn't worry about it. It would kind be like saying "I'm not going to eat anything I didn't grow myself because it could have something wrong with it."

 

[JimmyA]

Use the Hikari brand brine shrimp. They are parasite free. That brand is the superior choice.

Jimmy

 

[eco23]

Not to keep beating a dead horse here but....the tank is still cycled. lol Double zeros again tonight. I won't post again until something major happens and/or I get fish. Just wanted to let everyone know it's still stable (I half-expected a purple tube lol).

This week I'll be busy stockpiling water and getting things ready when I get the things I ordered (stand, etc). Still trying to track down CPDs; I emailed a guy who sells them but haven't heard back yet. If I don't hear from him this week not sure what I'll do. I guess I could start with the cobra guppies (no feedback on those yet.....I'm assuming they'll be OK with the CPDs) but I wanted to start with the Celestials as they are more shy.

Also been researching different types of Cories. I like the Julii or Sterbai ones; are those OK in a 20? Not sure where I'll get them though.

I've also heard that the frozen foods can be contaminated with bacteria and cause food poisoning for the fish. Is this common? Any way to prevent it?

Ok, well, next time I post hopefully I'll have fish.

Yay .

Since you've got time to kill, you could always up the ammonia to 3ppm instead of 2. We know the thing is cycled and there's no concerns anymore...so building a stronger bio-filter while you wait would be a good idea...I would

I've never kept Sterbai or Julii Corys (only Pandas), but I know they're a bit bigger. Jeta keeps different Corys and I'm sure coule chime in. The Internet shows a wide range of sizes...30 minimum seems to be a popular recommendation.

I use the Hikari brand frozen foods. They're a super trusted brand and there's a large section on the back of the packaging about all they do to ensure the food is safe. I wouldn't worry. Most of the issues I hear about are from live foods, or digestion issues with the freeze dried stuff.

If you stop posting...what will I do in the evenings ?

 

[librarygirl]

Yay .

Since you've got time to kill, you could always up the ammonia to 3ppm instead of 2. We know the thing is cycled and there's no concerns anymore...so building a stronger bio-filter while you wait would be a good idea...I would

That's an idea, I'll dose it up higher tonight (if the nitrites come back and then don't go away I'm coming after you.... )

never kept Sterbai or Julii Corys (only Pandas), but I know they're a bit bigger. Jeta keeps different Corys and I'm sure coule chime in. The Internet shows a wide range of sizes...30 minimum seems to be a popular recommendation.

Darn, figures. I like the patters on the Sterbai and Julii better than the Pandas. I've seen different tank sizes too, as small as 15 gal, so I thought I was OK. I'll keep researching and ask around.

use the Hikari brand frozen foods. They're a super trusted brand and there's a large section on the back of the packaging about all they do to ensure the food is safe. I wouldn't worry. Most of the issues I hear about are from live foods, or digestion issues with the freeze dried stuff.

That's great, I'll look for that then. I've never looked into the freezer at the LFS but now I have an excuse. I also read CPDs like live foods like Daphnia or Artemia; are those commonly sold too? Sheesh, these fish better get jobs. I ordered a small container of freeze dried tubifex when I ordered the NLS pellets. I've read mixed things about the freeze dried too; I've heard others say if you soak them first then it reduces the bloat issue, but I don't know. The container was cheap so if I don't use it it isn't a big loss.

you stop posting...what will I do in the evenings ?

I know, I'm trying to wean myself off posting every night. It isn't working so far, apparently. I'm going to go through withdrawals lol. The sooner I can set up my tank the sooner I can start the cycling thread for the ADF tank with the water experiment.

Gosh I want fish now already lol This is going to be a looooong week.

Oh, here's my idea of what I'll do for maintenance (tell me if I''m wrong or if I'm forgetting anything):
--Two weekly 30% pwc; I'll use the spring water for now but I'm researching RO units. If by some miracle the ADF tank cycles with the tap water then I'll be able to switch over to tap again. I'm thinking of using an airline siphon to put the water into the tank rather than dumping it in which seems to create a lot of bubbles.
--Once every three weeks swish the filter media in old tank water and move the substrate around to avoid compaction
--Once per week or two siphon the sand
--Check heaters, filter, etc regularly to make sure they are working
--Clean algae as needed (not a problem yet but my lights are off most of the time)
--Check the fish during feeding to make sure they are OK
--Tank lights on a timer: on about noon to 6 PM; then moonlight from 6 PM to when I go to bed (around 9 or so) then lights off.

Is it OK to feed the fish at night or is morning better? I figure I'll have more time to watch them at night than if I try to do it in the morning before work, but if it'll mess up their cycle I can get up earlier.

I'm SO EXCITED. It's like CHRISTMAS!