Fishless cycling uncertainity

[jlk]

Thanks for your help!!!! I know i need patience doing this but things dont seem to be doing what they are supposed to and im losing faith here trying fishless cycling. Im about to start 'the process' of a massive water change & im hoping it helps. Is it possible the GH/KH are affecting the cycle process (i have very hard water & they are off the charts)? I do add water conditioner with pwc's although chlorines/chloramines are undetectable. I will let you know how things go.... thanks again, jessica

 

[eco23]

Thanks for your help!!!! I know i need patience doing this but things dont seem to be doing what they are supposed to and im losing faith here trying fishless cycling. Im about to start 'the process' of a massive water change & im hoping it helps. Is it possible the GH/KH are affecting the cycle process (i have very hard water & they are off the charts)? I do add water conditioner with pwc's although chlorines/chloramines are undetectable. I will let you know how things go.... thanks again, jessica

I've never seen GH and kH cause an issue unless they are very low. Thats when the pH crashes and fluctuations happen. The no2 > no3 bacteria will grow a little slower at high pH levels, but unless it's extreme there's usually no issue. Here's a neat little writeup about what the bacteria likes-
http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

 

[jlk]

Ok-i drained the tank down to 1/2 inch above the gravel & couldnt get anymore water out. I filled it back up & let it run for 15minutes before retesting it. There are no nitrites/ammonia/nitrates in my tap water (and my other tanks are fine). Unbelievably, my nitrites are still testing off the charts. Im at a loss!!!!!

 

[eco23]

Haha! That just shows how high they are and maybe they are responsible for the odd things happening. I hate to say it...but if you've already got the bucket out...might as well get the no2 down to a readable level.

Since you've got a larger tank, it'd definitely be worth running down to the pet store and buying a water changing system like an Aqueon water changer or a Python. If they didn't exist...I might rethink keeping fish, lol. They're the most awesome tool you'll ever buy for maintenance of your aquarium. I can do a 50% gravel vac / pwc on my 46 gallon in under 10 minutes.

 

[jlk]

Did another big water change & finally got the nitrites somewhat readable (2ppm)...dosed ammonia back up to 2ppm. My back hurts from hauling buckets...i am done for today!!! Wait to see what tommorrow brings!!!! Maybe the nitrite bacteria will be happier now that the ph has come down some....

 

[jlk]

Hi Eco! Today ive got 0 ammonia, 5+ nitrites (crazy high), 40 nitrates & ph jumped from 7.6 to 8.2. I guess its time for another water change (ugh). This is my question-is there a direct coorelation of ammonia to nitrite conversion (ie-2ppm ammonia converts to 2ppm nitrites?) or is there an exponential increase? Is the ammonia whats causing the ph to jump so high so quickly or is it the nitrites themselves? Thanks again for your help!!!!! jessica

 

[librarygirl]

Hi Eco! Today ive got 0 ammonia, 5+ nitrites (crazy high), 40 nitrates & ph jumped from 7.6 to 8.2. I guess its time for another water change (ugh). This is my question-is there a direct coorelation of ammonia to nitrite conversion (ie-2ppm ammonia converts to 2ppm nitrites?) or is there an exponential increase? Is the ammonia whats causing the ph to jump so high so quickly or is it the nitrites themselves? Thanks again for your help!!!!! jessica

I don't think the ammonia should affect the PH but I could be wrong. Have you tested your tap water for PH and see what it is out of the tap and after sitting out for about 24 hours?

I don't think you need to do another water change. You just did a few and nitrites going that high again is normal. I'd wait and see what happens.

As for the correlation of conversion, I don't know if there is or not. There may be, but if there is I haven't seen any information on it so far.

 

[eco23]

+1 with Librarygirl.

Try the glass sitting out overnight thing and don't worry about a water change. Jumping right back up was expected and part of the process. From here on...I'd just let it do it's thing and not worry about pwc's.

As for conversion, I've never seen any type of scientific write-up...but I do think it's all relative. What complicates it is that there's a lag time. Think of it this way. The first type of bacteria eats ammo, and poos nitrIte. So there's probably a "digestion" period. Kind of the same way we don't eat at the same time we......well, you know . So there's a delay. The no2 showing up now may be the ammonia the bacteria ate yesterday. Just a theory.

 

[kurtyboh]

yes abit of lag time and some may be doing better than others and splitting to create more bac. since you have many bacteria running at different speeds it would be tough to say in this amount of time this amount of nitrite will be converted.

 

[jlk]

I am HAPPY to report things are looking a bit better today!!!!! 0 ammonia, 2ppm nitrites (1st time ive ever gotten readable numbers without pwcs!!!), & 40 ppm nitrates!!!! I am THRILLED i can actually read the nitrites!!!! Hopefully, things will continue in a positive direction!!!!

 

[kurtyboh]

they will continue the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate is always the slowest. it can take upwards of 20+ hrs for one to replicate itself... even under the best of conditions it still takes hrs, where as most food born bacteria will be in the trillions in the same amount of time, You are certainly close now!

 

[librarygirl]

I am HAPPY to report things are looking a bit better today!!!!! 0 ammonia, 2ppm nitrites (1st time ive ever gotten readable numbers without pwcs!!!), & 40 ppm nitrates!!!! I am THRILLED i can actually read the nitrites!!!! Hopefully, things will continue in a positive direction!!!!

Looking good, congrats! Hopefully the nitrites will fall to 0 soon. Then test it for a few days to be sure ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 after redosing ammonia each day.

 

[jlk]

Hi everyone!!!! I am THRILLED to report that today (3 wks to the day since i started this journey) i have ZERO ammonia, ZERO nitrites, & 80ppm nitrates!!!! Is it safe to say this tank is officially cycled??? I will keep dosing the ammonia for a few more days to make sure the readings keep dropping to zero overnight but what is the next step before adding fish? A large water change to bring down the nitrates, correct? Can i then add fish immediately? Thanks for all your help!!!!!! jessica

 

[librarygirl]

Hi everyone!!!! I am THRILLED to report that today (3 wks to the day since i started this journey) i have ZERO ammonia, ZERO nitrites, & 80ppm nitrates!!!! Is it safe to say this tank is officially cycled??? I will keep dosing the ammonia for a few more days to make sure the readings keep dropping to zero overnight but what is the next step before adding fish? A large water change to bring down the nitrates, correct? Can i then add fish immediately? Thanks for all your help!!!!!! jessica

Congrats! Yes it probably is cycled, but to be safe I'd keep dosing ammonia and testing for a few days to be sure. Then the night before you plan to get fish, do a 100% water change (don't forget the dechlorinator), turn the temperature down if you've had it elevated during cycling (most fish like temps between 75-78 but do research on the fish you are planning to get to be sure). To be super safe I'd let it circulate for a half hour and then test nitrates again to make sure they are as low as you can get them (anything under 20 is good, under 10 or even under 5 is optimum). DON'T add ammonia. Then the next day get your fish! Try to do a slow acclimation, the drip method is best. There are videos and sites that show you how if you aren't sure (some links below). Good luck and post pics when you get your new fish!

Fish, Coral, and Invertebrate Acclimation Procedure: Adding New Fish to a Tank
Acclimating Fish - Drip Method - Rate My Fish Tank
drip acclimation - YouTube

 

[eco23]

Awesome job . Enjoy your fish.

 

[jlk]

Thanks everyone!!! Ive let the tank run for the last couple of days dosing ammonia up t 4ppm everyday. Ive got a great bacteria colony!!! They drop everything back to zero within 12hrs! So, today i tackled the water changes to get the nitrates under control. This has proven VERY difficult. Ive changed the water (90%-down to the gravel) three times now!!! Six hrs later and ive got the nitrates down to 20ppm. I know lower would be ideal but is this ok for a moderately planted aquarium???? I know need some nitrates for the sake of the plants but i dont want to hurt my fish (my other smaller tanks are @10)!! Thanks again! jessica

 

[eco23]

I'd consider 20ppm the maximum safe range (depending on the fish). One thing that seems to help reduce nitrAtes is a super thorough gravel vacuuming. I agree though that 20 is fine to stock...but personally I like to start as close to fresh with a newly cycled tank as I can. I do lots of pwc's, and my nitrAtes rarely get over 10...and my plants do great...so I'd say no worries there. Maybe break out the bucket one more time?

 

[kurtyboh]

I wouldnt worry with 20 esp if its plantef

 

[jlk]

Thanks again everyone!!! So my question for today is im only starting off with my 2 black moors in this 50gal tank. I do plan on 2 more fish but i havent found what im looking for yet. I know i have a great set of bacteria right now but will it survive with just 2 fish to serve as the source of ammonia??? They are only about 2-3in big. Thanks again!

 

[kurtyboh]

The amount you need will survive, which is why we always add slowly. That bacterial colony needs time to build up