FresH2O's 20g planted rescape

[Caliban07]

Unhealthy carpet as in inconsistent leaf size and the presence of a dark, short haired algae.
The leaf size is larger when the HC Cuba is growing well. Especially seen on the runners. While I am seeing both larger and smaller leaves, the areas where I had trimmed are displaying smaller, less numerous leaves. I equate this with less vigorous growth. Don't get me wrong...the carpet has filled in nicely.
The algae did show up in the first 3-4 weeks. It is on about 30-40% of the carpet. It's not BBA. I managed to keep it at bay using spot treatments of glut. Plus, since no fish were present I was not concerned with excessive co2. Seeing how the RCS in my shrimp tank love this stuff, I moved a few RCS in this tank hoping they would feast on it. I do see them grazing on it but they are not making a big difference. I have a lot of MTS and ramshorn snails and they are peppered into the carpet. I will need to vacuum them off before I trim the carpet again (they might dull the blades).
Then there the BBA... Around the same time the other algae appeared, I started seeing BBA on the substrate and on the snail shells. In the last week it has made a strong comeback. Blaming this on the increase of waste from the fish (with no additional water change % to compensate) and possibly a cumulative effect of the micros dosage.
I plan on doing a few water changes over the next few days to correct the situation.
To answer a question on another thread, I am using a micro solution made up from CSM+B purchased before the recipe change and still using the "old" dosage. I mixed this up a month or two ago and it should last a few more months. I do have some new, unopened CSM+B purchased earlier this month.
Yes, a detox may be in order. THANKS for the feedback everyone!!!

Fresh the symptoms are uncanny. My Monte Carlo the same thing happened. Covered in BBA and each new leaf was smaller and they would form like a clover all next to each other than along the stem. Sine the detox the leaves are huge. Possible even too big and they grow straight up. There is also a noticeable absence of new root along them stem that would have attached to the substrate to keep the plant hugging it. This Is why it's growing up because there is no root so I'm still having issues with the plant. I've done that many water changes that unless the substrate is still holding lots of micros I could be in the deficiency range now but it's just not knowing. If my eco compete is chock full of heavy metals and I add more thinking there is a deficiency issue I'll be in a never ending circle until I have to change the substrate to be certain and I really don't want to do that.

Edit: also the old mix for PPS pro is way more excessive than the new. I think because the plants don't use them all up they just accumulate and cause problems. Especially when the are bound tightly to certain chelates as they are slow release broken down by light.

You should have seen my filter intake pipes. They would grow an orange slime that when picked off looked like the nutrient material the plants come in. The filter would spit it all over my tank when I restarted it the filter so I had to put a net over the spray bar to catch it all. Since I started detox that stuff hasn't come back and the rainbow like slick on the surface is nowhere near as bad.

Now that I look more closely at my plants I can see the problems. Blyxa stems crooked and bent no growth observed in fast growing stem plants. Stunting and chlorosis in staur repens, runner plants not running and the few they had sent were weak, small and pale.

 

[Delapool]

Smokes - starting to think plain old gravel and PMDDs not that bad.

 

[Caliban07]

Smokes - starting to think plain old gravel and PMDDs not that bad.

I feel terrible telling everyone to turn their co2 up [emoji17] I actually feel like most things I have learned in the past few years has been a lie.

The guy I've been speaking to about this insists that he has plants pearling in high light (direct sunlight) with no co2 now that he has figured out dosing regimen.

After soil has mineralised I cannot see how this isn't the best substrate for nutrient related issues.

 

[flchamp89]

Quality soil will always reign supreme

 

[Fresh2o]

Ahhh... so much going on. Keeping things in balance. I can see the appeal with going low tech.
How's this for a water change? I also mixed up a new batch of glut and dosed ~20 mL of 50:50 strength after filling the tank

Now there's nothing wrong with the following scapes. These could be the hardscape for a planted setup or could stand on their own:

 

[Caliban07]

But we know that can be done. The problem is no two tanks are the same. The odd thing is is that some of the people who were countering the toxicity arguments with pictures of their own tanks were showing signs of tox but because we don't know what we are looking for the growth just looks normal.

Edit: should be enough with a detox to see positive signs.

Also it may have taken you a bit longer to see problems if your water is harder and I know you have a lot of organic matter in the substrate which could potentially bind to heavy metals.

Everyone seems to have that initial surge of growth but after a while it slows down. In my case it only took days to see that something was wrong and some people reported instant 'frying' of some plants.

Again, nothing proven. Anecdotal observations.

 

[Caliban07]

Remember b_carl? He left not long after I joined.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/ei-dosing-micro-toxicity-343121.html

 

[Caliban07]

Fresh I wonder if it is ok to drag this thread back in to life and report all cases and/or improvements there.

I know myself, Bert and tiger for now will be posting there and perhaps even yourself. Is it too far back to recall this thread?

 

[Fresh2o]

Fresh I wonder if it is ok to drag this thread back in to life and report all cases and/or improvements there.

I know myself, Bert and tiger for now will be posting there and perhaps even yourself. Is it too far back to recall this thread?

Go right ahead. Good info in there.
I remember b_carl had horrible water. He made it work if I recall.

 

[TMaier]

Low tech! Low tech!
Can you hear me chanting as a quiver in fear? This high tech stuff is so over my head. I do mind bending analytical work for a living. Really want my tanks to be as simple as possible. I have no brain cells left firing at the end of the day.

Bless you guys for the beautiful tanks you create and the love and commitment it shows.

 

[Caliban07]

Low tech! Low tech!
Can you hear me chanting as a quiver in fear? This high tech stuff is so over my head. I do mind bending analytical work for a living. Really want my tanks to be as simple as possible. I have no brain cells left firing at the end of the day.

Bless you guys for the beautiful tanks you create and the love and commitment it shows.

What a lovely message [emoji4] thanks

 

[flchamp89]

I vote for a combo. Low light with high tech parts lol

 

[Fresh2o]

Tank update time!
I trimmed the Pogostemon erectus along the back. A few Limnophilia aromatics stems popping up on the left

Those dark masses are MTS covered with BBA. I've resumed glut treatments and have increased WCs

Closeup of the carpet showing algae between the stems and in the lower leaves. Healthy leaves poking through

Current layout of the "hill"; I don't like it

Proposed changes: Staur repens at the base of the hill, HC Cuba on top, possible replacement of HC Cuba on right section with staur repens, the addition of a red accent plant (perhaps a Rotala species):

 

[Nortzy21]

Unhealthy carpet as in inconsistent leaf size and the presence of a dark, short haired algae.
The leaf size is larger when the HC Cuba is growing well. Especially seen on the runners. While I am seeing both larger and smaller leaves, the areas where I had trimmed are displaying smaller, less numerous leaves. I equate this with less vigorous growth. Don't get me wrong...the carpet has filled in nicely.
The algae did show up in the first 3-4 weeks. It is on about 30-40% of the carpet. It's not BBA. I managed to keep it at bay using spot treatments of glut. Plus, since no fish were present I was not concerned with excessive co2. Seeing how the RCS in my shrimp tank love this stuff, I moved a few RCS in this tank hoping they would feast on it. I do see them grazing on it but they are not making a big difference. I have a lot of MTS and ramshorn snails and they are peppered into the carpet. I will need to vacuum them off before I trim the carpet again (they might dull the blades).
Then there the BBA... Around the same time the other algae appeared, I started seeing BBA on the substrate and on the snail shells. In the last week it has made a strong comeback. Blaming this on the increase of waste from the fish (with no additional water change % to compensate) and possibly a cumulative effect of the micros dosage.
I plan on doing a few water changes over the next few days to correct the situation.
To answer a question on another thread, I am using a micro solution made up from CSM+B purchased before the recipe change and still using the "old" dosage. I mixed this up a month or two ago and it should last a few more months. I do have some new, unopened CSM+B purchased earlier this month.
Yes, a detox may be in order. THANKS for the feedback everyone!!!

What lights are you running? From one of the above pics, it appears that you have a finnex planted 24/7+ but I can't quite tell. If that's the case, how are they treating your plants? I just added a 30" fixture on my 29 planted.

 

[Nortzy21]

Unhealthy carpet as in inconsistent leaf size and the presence of a dark, short haired algae.
The leaf size is larger when the HC Cuba is growing well. Especially seen on the runners. While I am seeing both larger and smaller leaves, the areas where I had trimmed are displaying smaller, less numerous leaves. I equate this with less vigorous growth. Don't get me wrong...the carpet has filled in nicely.
The algae did show up in the first 3-4 weeks. It is on about 30-40% of the carpet. It's not BBA. I managed to keep it at bay using spot treatments of glut. Plus, since no fish were present I was not concerned with excessive co2. Seeing how the RCS in my shrimp tank love this stuff, I moved a few RCS in this tank hoping they would feast on it. I do see them grazing on it but they are not making a big difference. I have a lot of MTS and ramshorn snails and they are peppered into the carpet. I will need to vacuum them off before I trim the carpet again (they might dull the blades).
Then there the BBA... Around the same time the other algae appeared, I started seeing BBA on the substrate and on the snail shells. In the last week it has made a strong comeback. Blaming this on the increase of waste from the fish (with no additional water change % to compensate) and possibly a cumulative effect of the micros dosage.
I plan on doing a few water changes over the next few days to correct the situation.
To answer a question on another thread, I am using a micro solution made up from CSM+B purchased before the recipe change and still using the "old" dosage. I mixed this up a month or two ago and it should last a few more months. I do have some new, unopened CSM+B purchased earlier this month.
Yes, a detox may be in order. THANKS for the feedback everyone!!!

Should have read more! Just saw your previous post from last week about your lighting. So I have some questions...what carpet plant would do well in my 29g tank? I have a finnex 24/7+ on 24/7 mode along with a cheap zoo med flora sun fluorescent bulb. This weekend, I'm going to set up a DIY CO2 system so I'm hoping that balances out well with my somewhat strong lighting. I'm also dosing flourish weekly. I know glosso would probably look good but I like the look of Monte Carlo or your plant, HC Cuba, much more. Thanks!

 

[Autumnsky]

The Stars are really nice looking in their rock garden.

Those are some crazy MTS snails! Following the pom pom fashion trend I see!

 

[Delapool]

I reckon on the snails!

 

[Fresh2o]

Should have read more! Just saw your previous post from last week about your lighting. So I have some questions...what carpet plant would do well in my 29g tank? I have a finnex 24/7+ on 24/7 mode along with a cheap zoo med flora sun fluorescent bulb. This weekend, I'm going to set up a DIY CO2 system so I'm hoping that balances out well with my somewhat strong lighting. I'm also dosing flourish weekly. I know glosso would probably look good but I like the look of Monte Carlo or your plant, HC Cuba, much more. Thanks!

Currently I run a Finnex 24/7 and Planted+ on there. 24/7 in 24/7 mode and the Planted+ plus for about 3 hours.
Not sure how HC Cuba would do at that height (18"). I have only grown it in medium to medium-high lighting. CO2 plays an important role in its success. You might be pushing the extent of DIY CO2 in that tank. Will you be setting up a yeast based or citric acid based system? When I did DIY CO2, I simply piped the large bubbles into the HOB filter intake. NOT the most efficient method. If I had a canister at the time, I would build a reactor to get the most out of gas (100% absorption).
I would try Glosso or maybe Monte Carlo first and see how it goes.

 

[Fresh2o]

The Stars are really nice looking in their rock garden.

Those are some crazy MTS snails! Following the pom pom fashion trend I see!

Rock garden look was the intent but still on the fence with this. I was thinking staurs at the base of the rock and more HC up top and in the crevices. Or, I may simply do nothing and let the staurs fill in. They are tend to hug the ground and produce side shoots under higher light (previously only grew straight up).
Pom Pom snails are not a fashion trend! I just dosed some glut this morning.

 

[TMaier]

Pom Pom snails are cute! Lol