full dose of melafix for betta?

[Gingimaru]

hi all,

my main question is this. i have been reading up on betta fin rot and found that melafix(?) would be a good solution. its compatible with snails (which we have) and has been recorded to regrow fins from pretty much nothing. however. i have also read that you should only dose 1/5th of what the actual dosage is as he is a labrynth breather. is this correct? if so i have a 35ltr tank so a normal dosage for that is 5ml. i should then be dosing 1ml?

my betta's back fin has started to "tear" is the best way i can describe it. the last month or so we have treated for finrot (used interpet finrot treatment) as we noticed his fins were becoming raggy and as we werent sure we figured it would be better to be safe than sorry. in the last 4-8 weeks he has had holes appear and dissapear, and even had a "tear" which healed up (we figured this was to do with the medication we were giving him). then about 3/4 days ago he got a much bigger tear in his fin (about 1cm maybe 1 and a 1/2cm) then yesterday my partner said at about 16:45 that his fins are looking a little better. then when i got home at about 17:45 he had around 4 tears in his fin so in the space of just over an hour his fins just went to the dogs! now we really arent sure why this is, he doesnt have any tank mates except a snail so i cant imagine its nipping there are some resin decorations in the tank which we checked and sanded down before moving him to his new tank (we moved him last weekend after the finrot treatment had been over for about a week or 2) so his ornaments should be smooth but i cant guarantee that as fish can get in some akward places. the only other things in his tank are silk ferns and some drift wood with a java fern on. other than his fins tearing i have checked his behaviour against a "normal" bettas behaviour and if you went on that and didnt see his fin you would say hes a perfectly health betta fish! he eats a lot (we try not to feed him too much as we know he'll eat till he pops) he is quite active, swims around a lot in the new tank, comes to the top when you open the tank, he flares at his reflection (even if he catches a slight glimps of himself in the back of the tank he'll flare for a bit)

i will also mention that when we got him his fins in general did appear a little thin and he is quite a show off flaring quite a lot so could a combination of flaring and him having thin membranes on his fin caused this?

i really hope someone can help because i am quite worried for him.

 

[Gingimaru]

please anyone? i want to make sure what i've researched is correct and you guys have always said do your research then ask away and thats what i'm doing please.. i dont want to end up killing my betta by dosing too much

 

[blert]

What are your water parameters. Usually fins will heal just fine without the use of meds just by upping your water changes and keeping the water very clean and free of toxins. But you are correct, if you do use the Melafix use only a very small dose.

 

[Gingimaru]

Ammo: 0ppm, Nitrite: 0ppm, Nitrate 40ppmish (straight out of the tap its 10-20 so we cant get it really low) and PH: 7.4ish. currently dosing 1ml of melafix a day (currently on 3rd day) hes been in the tank for 5 days.

we've read that betta's can blow their fins if they are quite active swimmers and flare a lot. we are treating for finrot but literally in the space of half an hour the top 1/4 (pretty much it was the top of his back fin) came off. he seems fine, doesnt scratch on stuff, doesnt sit in the flow to itch, we havent seen him get caught on anything but we will be removing our decorations shortly and replacing it all with silk plants everywhere as well as a couple of java. theres no white spots, no whiteness around the edges of his broken fin, no sings of fungal infection. he seems perfectly fine except for his fin dropping off

 

[blert]

Good idea on the silk plants. Live would be even better! Those plastic plants may feel soft and not sharp to us but to a Betta's fins they can be like razors.

No fungus or funk, that is great! I would not even bother with the Melafix. Lots of clean water is all he needs unless there is some other issue.

 

[Gingimaru]

does it sound normal for a betta to blow his fins and for bits to fall off? not talkin lil spots appearing here and there we're talking chunks in short spaces it seems

his lower fins seem fine, its just his back fin mainly and it appears a lil at the top

 

[blert]

It's not exactly normal, no. I would for sure try to get that nitrate down to tap level with a few back to back water changes though. I don't like using meds for something that can potentially harm the fish unless there is no other choice.

 

[Gingimaru]

since i last posted its got worse its like nearly half his tail.... aside from the nitrates we cant see anything else thats "wrong" and we've been watching him pretty much constantly since i last posted and we didnt see him bite, flare, or catch on anything

 

[blert]

Contact bs6749 and jpchin right away and ask them for help. Really knowledgable guys who will have good tips for you.

 

[Gingimaru]

ok thanks a lot

 

[siva]

Never give a betta a full dose of MelaFix. It can be fatal. They need 1/5 of the dose. If you look at the product BettaFix, it's the same thing as Mela, just 1/5 as strong.

MelaFix will not actually do anything to stop fin rot. Clean water is the very best medicine you can offer. Do water changes as often as you possibly can. At this point I would go ahead and does with 1 Tablespoon aquarium salt per 5 gals of water as well.

What temp is the tank at?

Some male bettas nip at themselves. Are you seeing curling along the edges of the damaged fins and/or a white or black coloration?

If your nitrates are that high out of the tap, I would recommend you heavily plant the tank with fast growing stem plants. These will eat up that nitrates. Anacharis, hornwort, and pennywort are great choices.

 

[Gingimaru]

Never give a betta a full dose of MelaFix. It can be fatal. They need 1/5 of the dose. If you look at the product BettaFix, it's the same thing as Mela, just 1/5 as strong.

MelaFix will not actually do anything to stop fin rot. Clean water is the very best medicine you can offer. Do water changes as often as you possibly can. At this point I would go ahead and does with 1 Tablespoon aquarium salt per 5 gals of water as well.

apologies but it says on the bottle it treats fin rot? am i being a bit daft and missing something here? and a lot of people have suggested using melafix for fin rot/fin damage. not saying your wrong just confused about the mixed information i am ALWAYS recieveing from every angle. no one seems to have the same story

What temp is the tank at?

Some male bettas nip at themselves. Are you seeing curling along the edges of the damaged fins and/or a white or black coloration?

If your nitrates are that high out of the tap, I would recommend you heavily plant the tank with fast growing stem plants. These will eat up that nitrates. Anacharis, hornwort, and pennywort are great choices.

Tank is at 25/26c changes a lil due to the light being on suring the day (warms up) then cools down to 25c at night. doesnt go higher or lower than that though.

no curling, and no white or black discolouration. its literally as if they dissapeared (not all of his fin but the bits that have gone) its like they were just taken off and theres no whiteness, no blackness, no fluff (bacterial/fungul infection) no itching, no biting that we have witnessed and by now i dont think he could reach them anyway and no sign of parasites. his top fin looks ever so slightly damaged. and his bottom fins (his main bottom one and his 2 near his beard) look perfect, nothing wrong with them. his scales look fine with no discolouration whatsoever.

we are going to be getting some more plants as well as doing small water changes every 2-3 days

 

[siva]

It's not a great treatment for fin rot. While it can be soothing, and seems to do a good job encouraging re-growth once the infection has been stopped, or if your dealing with nipped/torn fins, IME salt is a better treatment for actual fin rot. Also, many bettas (and other fish with labyrinth organs) are sensitive to MelaFix, and can typically heal well from these types of problems with frequent water changes. If you do want to use the Mela, just be sure to only use 1/5 the recommended dose.

With no discoloration around the edges or curling, I wouldn't typically suspect rot, though it's possible. I would think that rot severe enough to take large chunks from the tail, would have affected other areas by then as well. I suspect nipping, or damaging elsewhere in the tank. Of course, it's so hard to be sure.

I recommend using a good heater and maintain the tank at a steady 27c. Bettas are prone to fin rot and fluctuating temps can contribute to it.

 

[Gingimaru]

the temperature is as stable as we can have it. its not near any radiators or windows or anything.

unfortunately we cant use salt as we have a snail and using salt can kill them off/damage them, and we'd rather not.

There are no other fish so nipping cant be it, i did see him possibly bite his tail the other day HOWEVER just to point out i havent seen that behaviour before or since then. i can imagine it is annoying him quite a lot having a fair chunk of his tail gone and straggly bits hanging off so i'm sure he will just have been biting a particularly akward bit.

at the moment his fin doesnt seem to be getting any worse. no other fins have it that we can tell. we are doing water changes every 2/3 days doing water paramater tests every other day. we have started feeding him some flake food mixed with blood worms, and we will also be getting a lot more real plants (hopefully they should be ok in my tank without any sort of Co2 stimulation, you know just using what the fish produce) and some large and small silk ferns along with some driftwood. any other safe decorations people can think of? this weekend i will bbe taking a pic of the tank once its all set up nicely

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I agree with siva. Clean water and salt is all that is needed. IMO/E melafix is a snake oil anyway. What kind of snail? I have successfully used salt in tanks with mystery, ramshorn and pond snails without an issue.

 

[Gingimaru]

I agree with siva. Clean water and salt is all that is needed. IMO/E melafix is a snake oil anyway. What kind of snail? I have successfully used salt in tanks with mystery, ramshorn and pond snails without an issue.

sorry its just places i've read say aquarium salt and snails dont go well together and you can end up killing them off. you do say research first and thats what my research told me. i also have a java fern and was read that salt can effect plants?

far as i know its an apple snail. yellow shell (so may be a goldenn apple snail), about 2 - 3 cm big. i only say "far as i know" as pets at home is an appaling place to buy thing from but its the only place we can go (however i may have found a new place its just a bit further and harder to get to which obviously means if i get any fish from there in the future they have a longer trek home)

so then what would you recommend? should i use some aquarium salt? if so how much ( i have a 35ltr/10US gal tank)? do i need to wash everything after using it or does it not matter? would i be better doing salt baths for the betta? or just adding salt to the main tank? what effect, if any, will this have on the snail? can i use it with melafix? if he does actualy have finrot does salt help with treatment of it?

and finally can anyone actually explain what salt does to help cure fish/kill bacteria? as it doesnt make sense for it not to kill the bacteria

 

[Gingimaru]

sorry for asking so many questions its just annoying hearing so many different bits of information to the point of a drop of salt could kill something in your tank to, a drop of salt could help something in your tank.... it can get quite confusing so apologies for my ignorance on some matters

 

[Mumma.of.two]

sorry its just places i've read say aquarium salt and snails dont go well together and you can end up killing them off. you do say research first and thats what my research told me.

far as i know its an apple snail. yellow shell (so may be a goldenn apple snail), about 2 - 3 cm big. i only say "far as i know" as pets at home is an appaling place to buy thing from but its the only place we can go (however i may have found a new place its just a bit further and harder to get to which obviously means if i get any fish from there in the future they have a longer trek home)

so then what would you recommend? should i use some aquarium salt? if so how much ( i have a 35ltr/10US gal tank)? do i need to wash everything after using it or does it not matter? would i be better doing salt baths for the betta? or just adding salt to the main tank? what effect, if any, will this have on the snail? can i use it with melafix? if he does actualy have finrot does salt help with treatment of it?

You are right. If you research that's the info you will find. Just offering up my experience. I treated a tank with a mystery snail and neons (supposedly salt sensitive) for 3 weeks a while back. Didn't loose any or see any signs of stress. The key is to dose the salt slowly and watch for signs of distress. For a snail it would be heading for the top of the water and staying there, closing up and becoming inactive or trying to 'escape' from the tank. If you are worried you can use a half dose of salt. Another option is to move the snail to a tupperware container (changing water daily) until treatment is over.
IMO salt baths should be (almost) a last resort. They can be stressful (netting, moving of fish). If its possible to dose the tank IMO thats better.
Salt doesn't evaporate so doing water changes is the only way to remove it from the tank. When treatment is finished you just do some large water changes over a few days to remove it. No need to clean anything.
Salt helps kill the bacteria causing the fin rot. It will also help promote the fishes slime coat to aid healing. Salt is a great treatment for may fresh water fish ailments. Don't be afraid of it.
A full dosage is one flat tablespoon per 5 gallons/20L of water. Dissolve a full dose into a container of tank water and add 1/4 of that mix to the tank every 6-12 hours. Adding it slowly will allow the fish to adjust. When doing a water change you need to replace the amount of salt removed. eg: 50% water change removes 50% of the salt. So you then need to add a 50% dose back into the tank with the new water. You can use it with melafix if you wish. Remember only use a 1/5 dose on labyrinth breathers.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

sorry for asking so many questions its just annoying hearing so many different bits of information to the point of a drop of salt could kill something in your tank to, a drop of salt could help something in your tank.... it can get quite confusing so apologies for my ignorance on some matters

No problem. There is so much info out there, I agree, it does get confusing at times. That's why AA is such a great place. You can hear info and experiences straight from people.

 

[Gingimaru]

thank you so much that has to be one of the better and concise answers i have heard on here so far! brill explanation. so much better than most places! i know pets at home sell API aquarium salt. i assume thats just as good as any other type of aquarium salt?

as a quick none betta/salt related question... has anyone else had any issues with pets at home? for example, fairly sure every fish i have ever bought from there has died....