garf.org stand questions

[JProx]

Hey guys,

I moved about 8months ago, and had to dismantle my saltwater tank, now the unpacking is finally done and I would like to setup my tank again. However my particle board stand for my 55gallon is toast. It had a great run (11yrs) but in the end bad construction materials led to its downfall. I am thinking about building the stand diagramed at garf.org under its diy section. I am not craftsman by trade, but have built many things in the past, have all the proper tools, and need a project to blow a weekend on.

Has anyone built one using their plans? How sturdy are they?
Has anyone made any additions/improvements to garf's plans for better stability, longevity? are there any safe sealents that i can use on the frame before it's skinned ?

thanks for looking, and any comments will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Thaiboxer]

I built a stand using their plans on Thursday. I only have the frame done, but you can see pics here:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=15423

Mine is for a 125 gallon. I still haven't added the wood top, sides, or trim, but even without the added stability I would feel comfortable putting the full tank on it today. It's like a rock.

I'm not a craftsman either... I haven't made any real changes to the design yet. I plan to:

- seal the 2x4's with deck sealant. Probably totally unnecessary, but I have the sealant left over from my deck so why not?
- skin the sides and front, and have probably 3 doors. The big one in the middle will access my filtration.
- add little shelves inside to put all my stuff on; air pump, filters, fish food, etc.
- add a little flourescent light on the frame so I can see what I'm doing.
- mount the powerbar(s) for everything on the 2x4's so they're out of the way.

I'll update my thread above with progress and pictures.

Good luck on your stand!

PS - if you don't have one, buy a good drill for this. I really love my Dewalt 14.4V contractor one, it never dies!

 

[JProx]

hey thai thanks,

i felt pretty confident about garf's design, especially after looking at allglass's new wood stand designs, but i have a friend who doubted garf's stability, and thought it would be a wise thing to check on. Wouldn't it suck to come home and find 55gallons of water, rocks, and fish all over the floor ?

however there is one thing i am thinking of adding, support beams on the sides of the stand. garf's plans do not include any.. but i was thinking the tank + water + subtrate the weight is going to be pushing 600lbs [for 55gal tank], so some extra structure supports wouldn't hurt any and will distribute the weight move evenly.

My biggest concern is with sealant though, i think it would be a good idea to seal up the frame, esp since i will be using a sump on this tank. water will evaporate from the sump and find it's way into the wood eventually.. but then it brought up a concern about possible leaching. My idea is use polyurethane and cover the plywood, and the seams of the frame, then use thompson's water seal over the rest of it. do you think thompson's water seal (i have a big stock left over too from past projects) will be safe though?

thanks again thai,

 

[Thaiboxer]

I'm betting that Thompson's will be safe on your wood, just make sure that it's all the way dry before setting up your tank. I'm actually planning to do pretty much the same. I have a TON of stain/sealant left from finishing my deck... the wood is pretty much the same as that on my deck, and this stuff sealed it really well! I figure if it preserves my deck from rain/snow/wrath-of-God (aka Minnesota Winter), it's good enough for my stand.

Do you have doors planned? If you buy them they're $$$. I'm thinking about building simple recessed ones out of 1/2 oak Ply, and skinning the rest of the stand in that as well. Then I'll add some trim pieces to cover the metal brace that runs around the base of my tank.

Also - a word on extra supports I've been debating them as well. Right now I have 8 uprights. One on each corner, the other four about 1/4 of the way in. That leaves a little bit of an open space in the center. I'm not really worrried about it, but if I were adding extra verts I would make them shorter, and have them run between my 2x4 top and bottom. Then the weight rests on the 2x4's, not the screws holding it together. Just a though.

Lastly - plan for a heavy stand! All that lumber is way way heavier than those particle board stands at your LFS!

Good luck! And if you have any crafty ideas on trim or doors, please fill me in! I'm not committed to a course of action on those yet...

Thanks!

 

[yaksplat]

If you want to add some lateral stability, just throw in a few diagonal braces on the back sections. They won't get in the way and they'll add a ton of strength.

Jim

 

[JProx]

Hey Thai,

Well Thompson is a natural choice for me too, I am just wondering now how long it will hold up. At my last home we had a large deck and after about 2-3yrs (of Cleveland winter, nothing like Minnesota) it would have to re applied. Wondering if that will be necessary though on an aquarium stand....

Last night I did another inventory check on stuff I had in the garage from old projects, and I found 2 medium sized cans on polyurethane [hi gloss stock] unopened, after cracking the lids I found they weren't used at all [score!]. 1 can will be enough to apply at least 4-5 coats on the frame [1coat is enough to seal wood though according to the directions]. I have played with polyurethane enough to know, it's a 100x better than Thompson’s so that's what I am thinking of using now, and luckily so as I have maybe 1/4 of a gallon of Thompson’s left from a wood shed project in the summer.

I too am still thinking about the doors, I haven't even given them much thought actually. My focus has really been to a wet/dry, sump, refuge designs. I was thinking about doing a recessed look on the doors too, not sure exactly how extensive the design of them will be. My arsenal of tools is extensive but it lacks a router, but if I can get my hands on one, I was thinking some nice rounded corners on the outer and inner edges of the door. That’s just my thought of today, but it will probably change after I skin the frame.

A few days ago, I started pricing materials for the stand build, [as well as the sump, wet/dry, refuge] at my local home depot. I looked through their assortment of trims, and wasn’t blown away, all boring and standard stuff. I was planning on visiting a few lumber supply stores (like 84 lumber) and seeing if they have any better of a selection. If I come across anything good I will post some pics of them and if I think of any crafty ideas for the stand I will be sure to tell you expect I ask you to do the same thing Thai.

As to more supports, Jim is a genius! I totally forgot about that. As of tonight that idea is in my stand design, thank you Jim!

I will probably end up buying the wood for this project sometime this week, probably tues or Wednesday and begin the building process. After the frame is built and sealed I will divert my attention to style, and attractiveness.

Oh yeah! I was reading your thread a couple of nights ago Thai, and I forgot t post this.
This place might be helpful for future sump supplies and other projects.
www.usplastics.com They deal with everything plastic; have great prices, and they have a bunch of stuff for industrial applications, that can be more than useful to people like us.

 

[yaksplat]

You can check otu the stand that I made in my gallery. It cost me a whopping $30 for the one sheet of 4' x 8' maple plywood at HD. for the finishing I used Formby's tung oil.

http://www.formbys.com/products/tung_oil_direct.cfm

This gives it a nice finish that dries quickly. I won't use it on the hood though, I don't want any chemicals too close to the water. I have a better tung oil on order for that.

If you need any furniture making advice, send me a PM or IM me. I'd be glad to help out.

Jim

 

[Thaiboxer]

Wow!

Big Score on the US Plastics page, that will be a big help on my sump! I didn't get much done over the weekend, those playoffs can sure suck up your time Thanks for that link...

I'll probably pass on the Formby's - I want to use the same finish on my (future) hood that I'm using on the base.

As for trim - I stopped on Saturday, and found that Menards has about 10x the trim/molding selection of HD. I'll be buying the remainder of the lumber for this project at Menards. I don't know if you have one, but they're nice.

As for the stain - I'm going to use the deck stuff that I've got. I don't expect that the humidity/spills in my base can match the winter here

Talk to you soon!

 

[JProx]

Thai just wait till you get their catolog (they're free) it's freakin' huge.. almost like a yellowpages.. hehe. Just for the record, i haven't done any business with them yet, they are in lima ohio, that's 20-30mins away from me, [hoping i can place an order and go pick it up myself and save the money on shipping] everyonce in a while i will catch one of their radio adverts. their arcylic though is a pretty cheap (12"x12x" 1/4" for 4.xx) and they have all manner of storage containers for 5-10 bucks, and a massive load of polyporylene valves, i am not exactly sure if they are safe in the a marine tank though. you think since polyurthane is safe, the rest of the poly family would be too however i still need to make sure.

jim that oil Formby's looks tempting, but i am thinking of just putting on a coat of oak stain, sanding then polyurthane the stand. i am not really in a rush to get my tank running. the stand is like project 1 of 4 and hopefully i will have enough to do till around march - april (that's when i would like to start the tank) i still have to finalize a design on the following: wet/dry, sump and refuge. Either of those projects will not take long, but i don't want to rush through them either.

sadly thai, i have never heard of menards. i called 411 today for a possible listing and got shot down, so that's a no go. pretty much all we have here is 84 lumber, lowe's and hd. they're probably a few more lumber joints that i am not thinking of.. hopefully some friends will know of a few places i can check out that i have forgotten about.

i doubt the humidity will even pose a problem, however it was a concern when i was thinking of using the thompson's myself. just thought i would bring it up, just in case... you know?

Jim, i remember reading your post about that stand.. totally forgot that was you (doh!) you are a very talented craftman. after i looked at your post the first time i was thinking of adding a lip similar to what you have on yours, how exactly did you pull it off ? did you ever finish the doors for it? i would love to get some ideas on those if i could. and do you have any pics of the finished model ? oh and i know exactly what you mean about how cheap materials are.. Friday i went to hD to price materials, and after i got home and ran the numbers i will spend like 26 bucks, + oak stain. i still can't believe i was thinking of paying close to 200for a real (not particle board) wood stand. the money you can save with a little elbow grease.. i swear. lol

 

[Thaiboxer]

I'm keeping really close track of expenses for this stand... it'll be less than half of what the LFS charges for a crappy one!

Made progress tonight, but nothing meriting pics. Should be good pics tomorrow night!

Bed time...

 

[yaksplat]

Jprox:

Do you mean the lip around the top that covers the lower 1.5" of the tank?
That's a strip of maple with the edges chamfered with a 45 deg router bit. There are 3 pieces....1 for the front and one for each side. The corners are mitered, although not well, I think i have to adjust my miter saw. I did cheat when i attached them and I used my air nailer along with glue. There's only about 1" of contact area between the lip and the stand, and clamping would have been a PITA.

I just got the router bits for the doors from amazon.com today and I realized that they're not going to work in my router so I started making a router table tonight. I just about have it done, so hopefully i can get to the doors this weekend.

I also have some compact fluorescent lamps coming in a couple days so then i can proceed to make the hood. Alsthough I still have to go hit radioshack and get some moonlights

Jim

 

[JProx]

hey jim,

yeah that was the lip i was talking about. unfortunitly i don't have a miter saw. i have a circular, jig saw and a few different dremels, and a rotozip, i do have a miter box though. i am thinking i might be able to rig up something to get near perfect mitered edges. but that's after i get the frame built.

when you get those doors done, could you post some pics of them ?

thanks,
bry

 

[yaksplat]

You should be able to do it with a miterbox, but it's just a lot easier with a mitersaw. Insead of doing it like I did, you could just do a butt joint at the end. It won't look as pretty, but it will server the same purpose.

Jim

 

[JProx]

hey jim,

thanks for the suggestion, i am thinking now i will attempt to use the miter box and a handsaw.. it will take forever but least it will turn out nice. i will then afix the lip to the frame, via dowels and glue. can't wait to see pics from your stand jim or thai's. as soon as i start constuction i will post mine, if you either of you guys want.

 

[yaksplat]

what kind of wood are you using?

 

[JProx]

well for the frame or skin ?

for the frame, i am not exactly sure what the wood is. My local HD has a pile of 2x4's labled "stud quality 2x4's " it was hand written btw, i looked a little more and those were the only ones i was able to find, that match garf' 1.5" x 3.5" suggestion. for the top i was going to use regular stock 3/4 plywood.

for the skin i have no idea, like the doors i am going with the.. "once the frame is built " mind set. that's probably the worse mind set to have...but jim as a far better craftsman than i... what do you suggest and what have you gone with ?

thank you as always for any advice,
bryan

 

[yaksplat]

Well, I was thinking that for the tools that you have, you should probably use a clear pine for the lip. This will be easier to miter and then adjust with sandpaper if necessary. The harder the wood that you use, the harder it is to work with unless you have the right tools.

FYI 2x4's have measurements of 1.5x3.5. They're known as 2x4's because that's what they used to be a long time ago. 2x4's are now planed down to an exact dimension with a relatively smooth finish. All of this planing takes about 1/4" +- 1/8 off of each side.

For the skin, you might want to try and find a plywood that has a hardwood veneer on it. It'll be quite easy to finish.


There's nothing wrong with designing on the fly. I do it all the time. It would probably cause my grandfather and great-grandfather (both expert cabinet makers) to roll over in their graves. My dad cringed when he watched me working. "where are your plans....how are you doing this????" I still haven't designed my doors, all i know is that they will have a finished dimension of 16x20". If you want to make a bad miter joint look better, get some wood filler or some type of putty that matches the wood. It works great to fill nail holes or bad joints. Unless you know where the mistakes are, they're invisible.

BTW i've only been woodworking for about 4 years now. I started when i was 22 and inherited 20 grand in tools.


keep the questions coming.

Jim

 

[JProx]

hey jim,

thanks for the information, when i was at home depot (i admit i didn't look very throughly) i saw only 2 stacks of 2x4's only one had the exact 1.5x3.5 2x4's and the other was largely closer to 2 and 4 inches (i didn't measure it myself, a buddy did) according to my friend. i am planning on building the lip from that same stock too, i am pretty sure it pine, now that i think about it. i was thinking about getting hardwood veneer just for the ease of finishing i have refinished some furniture in the past and i am not againist putting time into it.. but i guess what we'll see what strike me, when it comes time to skin the beast.

tomorrow i am going lumber hunting, hopefully i can use the garage tomarrow. Tomorrow's hi is suppose to be 25, and the gas heater in the garage doesn't like to work all the time (sometimes the pilot will stay lit and sometimes not) or i could do the cutting in the basement. hopefully the heater will cooperate tomarrow.

but thanks jim for the suggestions, corrections, and the advice. i am thinking i'm in good shape for tomorrow, and if i run into any snags you will be the first person i turn too.

thanks again
bryan

 

[NASCAR_Dave]

One secret I have used to true up my miter cuts is to take the two pieces that are going to be mitered and recut the joint after you have cut the 45's. That way you split the difference and the joint trues right up.

 

[JProx]

just an update, i didn't buy the wood today, it's been a long day and spending the next 3hrs in my garage cutting wood, will just be too much. probably going to buy the wood tomarrow (thursday) or friday and turn this back into a weekend project.

thanks dave for the miter advice, i will only need 2 mitered edges with my design.. but if i need to true them up, i will try your suggestion, thank you!

thai, jim any pics yet ? i am still dieing to see doors

bryan