Goldfish as a gift...in an uncycled tank!

[midgiepooh]

Oh my...totally forgot I had another question!

Okay, keeping in mind that I know the test strips are unreliable...

I was "playing" with them earlier today when I did my normal test in the 20 g. I didn't think I "needed" to test the water since I just put him in it several hours ago. But it couldn't hurt and I need to get into the habit of everyday testing....

The ammonia level of the 20 g was the same as the ammonia level reading I got yesterday in the 1.5. (I am using Jungle brand strips, matching the pad color to the color on the bottle). The reading I am getting is 0.5, and reads "stress" underneath. The color-code gives me 5 possible readings, the "stress" being the middle one. A 3-out-of-5, if you will.

So I tested the water in the 1.5 just for fun and got a 0.5 reading again.

I couldn't believe that was true since the fish lived in that water for more than 24 hours! Yes, I did do about a 30% water change earlier, but still!

So I tested just regular 'ol tap water and still got a 0.5 reading. The color on these sticks is identical!

Even though I'm keeping in mind these things aren't reliable, now I'm leaning toward them being completely useless! Either that, or my tap water stinks!

So what does everyone think? Should I still go with my plan of getting a better test kit in 3 days, or should I opt to make an earlier trip to the store?

 

[jlk]

Ok, just I am clear, your getting a .50ppm reading for both tanks and your tap water? Not unusual- its likely that your municipality uses chloramine rather than chlorine to disinfect your water. When you get your liquid test, we will be able to see more clearly what your water is actually reading. Lets add another thing to your shopping list- a bottle of Prime (water conditioner). Prime will help to detox the ammonia in your tap between water changes so your fish will not be affected by the possible ammonia in your tap water. If you can not find prime, Amquel Plus does the same thing but its not as concentrated & you will use it up alot faster (prime is more economical).

 

[midgiepooh]

Yep! I'm getting a 0.5 no matter where I dip the stick! New tank, "old" tank, tap - its the same all around.

It makes me nervous because I don't like seeing the word "stress!"

So if the cause truly is my water source, then changing the water won't help that, am I correct? I fully intend to change the water over the next 3 days, but I'll always get a 0.5 reading, right?

So do I need to get a better kit sooner, then? How dangerous is 0.5?

I DO have some some ammonia-clear tablets. I read that they convert ammonia into ammonium which isn't exactly ideal, but better. Should I use them, or wait to buy the better stuff?

Questions, questions! You guys are going to get sick of me! ha!

 

[George9]

Yep! I'm getting a 0.5 no matter where I dip the stick! New tank, "old" tank, tap - its the same all around.

It makes me nervous because I don't like seeing the word "stress!"

So if the cause truly is my water source, then changing the water won't help that, am I correct? I fully intend to change the water over the next 3 days, but I'll always get a 0.5 reading, right?

So do I need to get a better kit sooner, then? How dangerous is 0.5?

I DO have some some ammonia-clear tablets. I read that they convert ammonia into ammonium which isn't exactly ideal, but better. Should I use them, or wait to buy the better stuff?

Questions, questions! You guys are going to get sick of me! ha!

.5 is on the high side and can stress fish out, its not horribly high though. Id reccommend Prime (like jlk said), a water conditioner to treat your tap water, it will detoxify ammonia in the water so its safe for fish. Most members use it anyway, whether there's ammonia in our tap water or not.

Id invest in an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, 100x more accurate than strips. You never know, maybe there is no ammonia in your tap and your strips are at fault.

Don't use any products like ammonia clear (or any type of product like that- ph up, ph down, water clarifier). They usually will do more harm than good.

To sum it up, Id buy Prime (by seachem ) and an API master test kit ($20-25-lasts a long time). Test daily and do water changes as needed.and eventually your ammonia and nitrite will be 0, and you're all set.

 

[jlk]

Until your tank is cycled, you will have some form ammonia present at all times. Once its cycled, your tank will quickly convert the ammonia & Prime will keep it detoxed until its converted. The test kit will tell you exactly how much ammonia is present- it may not be this high or it may be higher (hopefully not!). Even if you cant get to a big store for a couple of days, do you have any local petstore with fish supplies? One of them is likely to carry either Prime or Amquel Plus (or even an ammonia lock/guard type conditioner) that will help in the interim. If not, the ammonia tablets are better than nothing until you can get a decent conditioner.

 

[midgiepooh]

Yes! I do have a pet store that carries fish supplies! It didn't cross my mind to see if they had anything for ammonia other than those tabs. I just saw them and went, "Oh! I might need that!" That was just my ignorance showing! I'll go back today and check if they have Prime or Amquel Plus.

They just didn't have any test kits - nothing but strips!

 

[George9]

Yes! I do have a pet store that carries fish supplies! It didn't cross my mind to see if they had anything for ammonia other than those tabs. I just saw them and went, "Oh! I might need that!" That was just my ignorance showing! I'll go back today and check if they have Prime or Amquel Plus.

They just didn't have any test kits - nothing but strips!

Awesome

I guess the strips would have to do unless you wanted to order it online. I'm not trying to pressure anything on you, I just think that liquid is the way to go.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000255NCI/ref=aw_d_detail?pd=1

 

[midgiepooh]

I just returned from the pet shop! No Prime or Amquel to be seen! Ugh! Why does my shop have absolutely nothing that's been recommended to me? LOL

I'm still going to get the good stuff when I do my big trip on the 30th!!!!

Anyway, I didn't want to leave the place empty-handed in case an alternative may do. I took the risk and bought an teenie-tiny bottle of Tetra AmmoniaSafe. What's the dealio? I won't actually use it until you guys give me the green light!

If its not recommended, no big deal - the bottle didn't cost very much!

And I don't feel pressured at all! You guys definitely are more wise than me! I can't wait to come back in a few days and announce I got my kit!

In some good news, my husband saw the fish in the big tank for the first time about an hour ago and commented on what a happy swimmer our little guy is! He's MUCH more active now, compared to the confines of that itty bitty tank!

 

[librarygirl]

Hi! What dechlorinator/conditioner are you using now? It's possible what you're using detoxifies ammonia as well; what does it say on the bottle?

You're doing great, btw! It's refreshing to meet someone who is open to advice and learning Your fish is very lucky.

 

[midgiepooh]

Right now I am using Tetra Aquasafe. On the back of the bottle, it says, "substances in tap water (like chlorine and heavy metals) that are dangerous to fish are removed or neutralized..."

It doesn't mention ammonia - unless its a "heavy metal" (psst...I didn't do very well in chemistry class! ha!)

Ingredients are: sodium hydroxymethane, sulfinate, chelating compounds, polyvinylpyrollidones, organic hydrocolloids. Hmm! It's Greek to me!

If anyone can recommend anything better, I'm all ears!

Thanks so much! It really quiets my nerves to hear I'm doing well, even for a beginner!

 

[librarygirl]

AquaSafe should take care of the ammonia too (chlorine and chloramines). Prime is superior to most as it's more concentrated so you'll use less; most of us on here use it but until then the Tetra product should work.

 

[smomus]

I second librarygirl's sentiments about it being refreshing that you are open to suggestions. So many times people come for advice then say its foolish.
Your little Goldie is one lucky guy. To often people think it is just a fish and don't care for them the way they should. Kudos to you for doing everything right!

 

[midgiepooh]

Oh really? So if the AquaSafe should take care of ammonia, then do I just have crummy test strips? Its now my personal mission to get a test kit! I'm going to see if maybe I can up my trip by a day or so! I'm getting excited over here!

I honestly don't know why anyone would come here for advice and then not want to use it! Hey, I admit, I'm only on Day Two of this, and I proudly proclaim my ignorance and I know I am in desperate need of guidance!

 

[smomus]

Oh really? So if the AquaSafe should take care of ammonia, then do I just have crummy test strips? Its now my personal mission to get a test kit! I'm going to see if maybe I can up my trip by a day or so! I'm getting excited over here!

I honestly don't know why anyone would come here for advice and then not want to use it! Hey, I admit, I'm only on Day Two of this, and I proudly proclaim my ignorance and I know I am in desperate need of guidance!

Aqua safe is just fine. The prime is just optimum. As long as you are doing the daily water changes don't be too concerned with what the strips say.

 

[blert]

Away for half a day and this thread explodes. Lots of stuff to catch up on here.

I did a bit of looking and found nowhere that says AquaSafe detoxes ammonia. Tetra makes something called Ammonia Detox for this. Tetra does not seem to be a big believer in saving you money. They have a separate bottle for everything. Don't worry about it though. When you hit the "big city" just look for a bottle of SeaChem Prime. You can't miss it, it's bright red. I suggest only getting a small bottle though and then order a big bottle from an online retailer, it will save you a bunch of cash. For instance: I can pick up a 500ml bottle here in town for 22$, I can get the same bottle online for less than $8 (plus $6 shipping). Comes out to a big savings if I order other stuff at the same time for the same flat $6 shipping. As others have said, Prime is just about the best. Not only for what it does, it is the most cost effective because you use less than other brands.

Don't worry too much about the ammonia in your tap water. It won't effect your fish much if you continue your daily water changes until you can get your liquid test kit.

 

[midgiepooh]

Yeah, I noticed that too - the AquaSafe didn't specifically mention ammonia.

So I'll try not to worry too much about "fixing" an ammonia issue until I know for sure I have one! Baby steps, Midgiepooh! Baby steps!

My traveling partner just totally BAILED on me and our trip to "dat dere big citee" so it looks like I'll have to go it alone. But that's okay - now I can go whenever I want! I'm gonna try to work it out to go tomorrow! Whoo!

Wow - I don't consider money an option here with the fish, but at the prices you're talking, I'm gonna give that a go too! Thanks for warning me about that!

About water changes - is there such a thing as overdoing it? Too often? Too much?

What would be a reasonable amount/frequency for one goldfish in a 20 g tank?

 

[smomus]

What is your filter by the way? Does it turn over at least 150 gallons per hour or more?
As for water changes, until you have your test kit I suggest 50% or more/day. Until you get that kit, that's the only sure way to keep levels in check

 

[midgiepooh]

Oh no...I'm glad you asked that because I have absolutely no idea how many gallons it turns over. Now I have some homework to do!

Let's see - I bought the Tetra Aquarium Starter Kit 20. The instructions for the filter itself are rather generic and for several models. It simply does not say!

But looking online to buy it alone, it appears to be a 20i, which according to Petsmart would be 125 gallons per hour.

Oh goodness, is my filter not good enough?

 

[smomus]

Oh goodness, is my filter not good enough?

For now its good while he is small but in the next few months you will want to upgrade it. Goldfish poop...A LOT!

 

[blert]

IMO, your fine. That's about 6x turnover and will be plenty. If you had more fish it would be a different story.

While you are at the pet shop pick up a few cheap live aquarium plants, even if you don't plan on keeping them. Don't get the ones in tubes (though there is nothing wrong with them). The plants that are in their tanks will likely be covered in bacteria that you need. Keep them wet and toss them in the tank. Anubias, Wisteria, Java Fern, all common hardy low light plants that will carry bacteria into your tank to help your "cycle".

Lots of fresh water is a good thing. 50% or more daily until you get your test kit and can see where you are at more accurately. After the "cycle" you will still want to do at least 50% weekly changes just to keep the water fresh and stable, I do two 50% a week in my goldfish tank. You really can't overdo it so long as you always treat the water first.