Guppy Advice on Bullying

[Streak]

Hello,
I am very much a beginner to keeping fish. One week ago I got two male guppies because I am not necessarily interested in breeding. I have a ten gallon tank and the inspiration to get fish came from my four and seven year old kids. I had no idea how much time I would spend thinking about and troubleshooting these fish. After a day or so I started to notice that the bigger more vibrant male was constantly harassing the smaller one. At first I thought it was playful but could tell pretty quickly that it was bullying. After doing some research I learned that keeping two males is less than ideal for this very reason. I also learned that adding more fish too quickly could also be a problem. So the plan was to wait another week and add four females to "solve the problem." Well this morning we woke up to a dead fish (the one that was being bullied). My kids were pretty sad and the remaining fish was pacing for many hours (he started doing this yesterday when the now dead fish was hiding from him and barely swimming).
I decided it was worth a try to add 4 females plus another male today, following the ratio recommendation. As soon as the fish were added to the tank the same fish started chasing, nipping and relentlessly chasing every fish regardless of sex. After witnessing this for almost an hour I removed him and enough water to keep him separated so I could observe the fish without him there. The new fish are quite peaceful together. I watched them on and off for about an hour. Feeling bad for the fish I separated, I put him back in and he went right back at it so I removed him again. I realize I may be overreacting but he clearly killed his last tank mate and I don't want this to keep happening. Advice would be greatly appreciated.
Gratefully,
Streak

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you cant keep this individual fish with others without it harassing and eventually killling the other fish you need to rehome the fish or return it to the store.

Some fish are just jerks.

 

[Streak]

Update

If you cant keep this individual fish with others without it harassing and eventually killling the other fish you need to rehome the fish or return it to the store.

Some fish are just jerks.

Thanks! I agree. I separated the jerk fish from the rest for about 20hrs. This morning I fed the other five in the tank and they all ate happily. I gave jerk fish some flakes but he was understandably too stressed to eat. Once the 5 were finished I returned jerk fish to the tank and I believe I might be observing the other 5 (4 females 1 male) putting him in his place. Am I imagining this or is it a thing? Giving him one more chance today before returning him to the store.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Putting fish on timeout is a thing. Ie removing a fish temporarily in the hope that they learn better behaviour when they are returned.

Its never worked long term for me, improvements in temperament has been short lived. I just dont think fish have the brain capacity to understand its their behaviour that led to solitary confinement and they need to change to prevent similar incarceration in the future.

Giving the other fish a break to recover from the harrassment has short lived benefits, and fish quickly revert to old habits.

That's just my opinion though based on my personal experience of trying timeouts. Had 2 female angelfish that didnt get along, timeouts calmed things down for a month or 2, but after trying to manage things for about a year eventually one had to go before she killed the other.

Let us know how things go with your specific group of fish. Fingers crossed it works for you.

 

[Streak]

Thanks

Thanks for the reply. My specific question is... is it instinctual for the other five to group together to stop the bullying over time?

 

[ADsnail]

Agreed on all of the above. In my experience, once a bully always a bully. How I wish others would learn to rise up and overpower the bullying, but I've yet to see this happen. I've noticed this in birds too: one bully preventing others from eating and, while I'm behind the window shouting encouragement ("Get 'im! Group up and don't let him push you around like that!") they don't get together to protect the victim or drive off the offender. It seems to be "every fish (or bird) for himself".

 

[Aiken Drum]

"There's always a bigger fish"

- Qui-Gon Jinn

 

[Aiken Drum]

They will either establish a pecking order over time and things will settle down. This will more likely happen if you have a good sized group where any aggression can be spread out and not always directed at individual fish.

Or your jerk will always be a jerk until he finds himself in a situation where he isnt top of the pecking order and will either calm down or get himself injured/ killed if he doesn't back down to some degree.

 

[gilpi]

Nothing is written in stone when it comes to fish behavior and there is no way for us to correct it other than just removing the troublemaker. Tank size, hiding places, adding more fish etc can balance out the aggression, maybe, sometimes. Overstocking certain fish reduces the aggression, I do that with African cichlids, not sure how it would work with guppies though I have seen overstocked guppy tanks.