Hello I am new have a Red Betta fish, fin rot, I don't know?

[bettafriend]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the world of pet fish! I received a Betta fish from my boyfriend for Christmas and I love him a lot. I do however have some concern for my fish as his fins are going black and the end are fraying. I worry this may be fin rot! He is in a 5 gallon tank with a bio wheel and two plastic plants. Also gravel on the bottom. Now I went to fish stores and pet stores where I get all sorts of information all different. One girl told me they are to live in cold water, some say warm water. Some say no filter some say filter. The list goes on. He swims a lot like he is hyper and he does eat the betta pellet fish food, I give him 2 in the morning and two at night. When I am near the tank he comes up to the side and flairs quite a bit. I left the filter off for a while being told that this could be causing stress on him because the water was moving a little. It seems to be moving more now because some of the water has evaporated.

I have not done any water changes as the water is crystal clear. I have been told I could change a little of it but I wonder why I would need to since its so clean?

So all in all I come here hoping to help my betta! I pray he is not suffering. Here are my main concerns in point form:

1. Filter or no filter and what about moving water, is it bad to turn filter on and off. Give him some time to not have moving water and then turn it back on for the filter to do it's job ?
2. Could he have fin rot by what I described above?
3. How much water to change and how much conditioner to put in for a little water change?
4. Any info is very much appreciated.
* There is not a heater in his tank and I wonder if may be the water is not warm enough? I really don't know, what a lot of work and stress one fish can be.

Not sure if should have asked my questions in here so I apologize if it's the wrong area.

Bye for now and thanks for reading. I apologize if there are spelling and such errors. My computer has a mind of it's own and even though I can type 60 words a minute it's taking forever to type it out on the screen and has long delays.

 

[lmw80]

Welcome to Aquarium Advice!!

Bettas are one of those fish where you will always find different information about their needs. The fact that you have him in his own 5 gallon tank with lots of swimming room is wonderful.

Bettas, while they can live in cold water do not prefer it. They prefer I believe around 72-80 degrees. They do sell small heaters if you wanted to invest in one, I had one when I had a betta in a 5 gallon.

My concern is the plastic plants. I also learned the hard way that plastic plants can rip up a betta's fins. Since bettas like to swim through the plants I think this may be why his fins are frayed at the end. I would pick up some silk plants instead.

Water changes should be done every 1-2 weeks, changing about 15-20% of the water. How much conditioner you use depends on what brand, just read the back of the bottle.

His fins are turning black you say...is there any white around the edges of the frayed fins?

 

[bettafriend]

thanks for your advice, any more advice?

Hello,

Thanks for your welcome and reply. There may be a small trace of white on one on the frayed ends but I wouldn't really say the black frayed ends have any white on them. They are just frayed and black on the ends. Since noticing this just over a week ago it has not go any worse. As for the plants to be honest from what I can see he hasn't even gone near them so as to have been caught on one, but who knows! I am getting get too stressed over one betta fish, that is for sure!!! I can't imagine how I would be with a cat or dog
Approx how much is a heater for a five gallon tank and what is the best kind so as to stay an even temp? Can the temperature of the water cause him to stress and get the frayed, black ended fins? It's dishearting because my boyfriend said that he talked to someone at the fish store he got my betta from and he seemd to be an expert. The whole set up I have it what this guy recommened, the plastic plants, no heater, bio filter. It's getting hard to know who to believe when it comes to info. I feel though that people in here though having had them or have them as pets may know more than the actual experts (or that is what they like to call themselves)!

Also do you know anything about filters? I have a bio wheel one and right now it's off because I fear the water current may be stressing him out. Could that cause the frayed, blackened ends of fins? He is slightly calmer without the filter running, but all in all he is just a hyper fish. As I said in my first post he does eat and he isn't lathargic, is that a good sign? Also he makes lots of bubble nests that I have read up on and that is a sign he is happy right?

Anyway I could go on and on. If you can answer any other questions I really appreciate it. If anyone else wants to put their two cents worth it would be appreciated also. I plan to go to a tropical fish store this weekend and may be take my fish with me to see what they think.

All in all I just hope he isn't too stressed like me !!

bye for now and thanks!

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi bettafriend,
Welcome to AA!

You have made a good choice in putting the betta in a 5 gallon tank. My bettas are in heated, filtered, planted tanks. Bettas need filtration as much as any other fish, but it's the filter current that they don't like. I did have a betta in a 5 gallon hex with a bio-wheel. I got a pair of clean, unwashed knee-high pantyhose (rinse the pantyhose in some removed tank wate first!) and cut it to the right size to slip over the outflow from the bio-wheel. The pantyhose can be held in place between that long filter assembly and the tank frame. You can rinse it periodically in the tank water you remove from a water change.

I agree with Lori about the silk plants - they are much easier on the fins, and are more attractive, IMO. It only takes one little pull at the fin from a plastic plant lto tear it. It's better to be safe than sorry!

A 25-watt heater is just the right size for a 5 gallon tank. I have both of these kinds:

Visitherm Stealth Heater

Visitherm Deluxe Heater

Don't worry that the Stealth 25-watt heater says it's for 8 gallons, or that the smallest Deluxe heater listed is 50 watts. I found my 25-watt Deluxe heater locally. This particular website doesn't carry the 25-watt ones, but I wanted to show you a picture.

Of these two, I like the Stealth since it's plastic. With the Deluxe, you MUST unplug it before a water change because it's glass. If the water level falls too low and exposes the glass to air, it will shatter. I haven't learned that the hard way, lol, but there have been plenty of posts about it! You don't have to unplug the plastic Stealth heater during a water change.

It's important to get a heater. IMO, bettas are very prone to finrot if the temperature is too cool or fluctuates. I keep the temperature at 80 or 81 degrees. I use a digital thermometer from the kitchen store to check the temperature. Now that the temperature is set, I only check it once a week at water change time.

Water changes should be done once a week. Change one gallon of water at a time for a 5 gallon tank. Follow the directions on the chlorine/chloramine removal product that you're using. Make sure the new water is the same temperature as the tank water. I heat up my new water under the under-cabinet halogen lights in the kitchen. I use my digital thermometer to check the temperature of the new water as it sits under the lights. (by the way - this halogen light is too hot for the fish! I only use it to heat up my new water.)

I would also get an master test kit like this one:

Master Test Kit

It's important to check ammonia and nitrite levels and do water changes if they are over .25 ppm. When I recently cycled a 5 gallon betta tank, I did a 2 gallon water change every other day until the tank cycled. Here is more information on the cycle: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=21

It's good that your betta is building a bubble nest; that means he is happy. But I wouldn't remove him from the tank just to take to another lfs. That may cause stress on him. I would keep him in the tank.

 

[An t-iasg]

Moved to Freshwater and Brackish: Getting Started forum.

Also, it does seem like your betta has a mild case of finrot. Stable, warm temperatures, along with nice clean water (meaning no ammonia or nitrite, and nitrates below 20 ppm) will usually clear up mild cases of finrot without medicine. Just because the water is clear and looks clean to us does not mean that you don't need to do a routine water change or do your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate testing.

 

[talloulou]

All good advice you have been given. The only thing I would add is to do PWC as much as possible while the fins are looking ratty. That is the best medicine. Once the betta is looking good then you can figure out a good routine of 1-2 a week or so.

 

[bettafriend]

Hello,

This is a reply to everyone that have given me advice so far. I am very appreciative of every bit of advice I receive so thank you! I went to a pet store in the city today that I work in and she recommended stuff for the fin rot it's called For Jungle fish Health: Fungus Eliminator, clears serious fungus and bacteria fast. So I am going to try some of that. It recommends changing the water 25% of it before doing this treatment. So I am going to treat the tap water tonight and then this time tomorrow change it. Then try the fungal medication. It's like a crystal form. It's worth a try I guess.

I am still thinking on the heater situation whether I need one. I have bought a thermometer ( fish tank one) It' says it's just about 70 degrees, wondering if it should be warmer? I saw a heater in the store I got the fungal medication and it was about $40.00 Canadian. Is that a good deal? I wonder also if I just move him into my livingroom(currently in my kitchen on the table), where it's a bit warmer and nearer the baseboard heater if that would help? Then I wouldn't need a heater? I don't know may be just buying the heater would lessen the stress of trying to keep the temperature right.

I like the idea of putting the pantihoes for the filter to lessen the water flow and am about to go out and get a pair to try it. It doesn't stop the filter from doing it's job though does it? Although a silly questions I guess since you wouldn't have recommend it if it didn't work!

Well I am off for now am tired and got to have something to eat.

Good Night and anymore comments, suggestions and help is appreciated.

Bettafriend

 

[fishygurl]

40 dollars canadian is alot for a 50 watt heater... Are you sure it want a higher wattage?

 

[bettafriend]

Hi An t-iasg,

Well I just did the pantyhose idea you suggested and it has slowed down the water flow, I hope the filter is still doing it's job though and wont bother the betta. But if the bio wheel is turning then it must be working okay right? Just want to be sure I am not adding more harm when I think I am doing a good thing!

I am going to put some water aside and treat it and then tomorrow about this time I will do the partial water change. I will change about 16 cups of water which I found out is about 1 gallon. Then I will add the medication. At least I am trying to help him best I can.

By the way my Betta fishes name is 'Christmas'. I gave him that name because he is a Christmas red and I received him as a christmas gift from my boyfriend along with the 5 gallon tank kit.

Well I must get some rest now, boy it's hard being a mum to a betta fish especially when they are under the weather!

 

[bettafriend]

Hi there,

I am not sure of the wattage of the heater, it was just about good for a 5 gallon tank and then a much bigger tank. I will find out the wattage and report back.

Thanks
Bettafriend

P.S. I have one other question before I get of this darn computer and actually eat and not stress! This questions is for An t-iasg:

Did you find that the pantyhose that you use to lessen the flow of the water made a little pantyhose bubble in the water. It's kind of like a ballon but only tiny bit blown up. Is this okay cause this is what mine is like. Or do I have it on wrong? Let me know , thanks.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm glad the pantyhose trick is working! All it does is diffuse the water flow so it doesn't come out so fast in one spot. The bio-wheel should still be turning, and it is, so that's good.

If your water temperature is close to 70 degrees, then you need a heater. That's too cool for a betta, and can lead to stress, which can lead to finrot. I wouldn't put the tank near the baseboard heater, because when it's on, the tank will be heated. When it's off, the tank temperature will cool. An aquarium heater has a thermostat in it to tell when the water is starting to chill, so it turns on. The heaters that I linked have a very low (about one degree, if that) fluctuation rate. The tank will most likely fluctuate more than that if it's near the baseboard heater. More fluctuations mean more chance of stress in the betta.

I have used the medicine you mentioned, the Jungle Fungus Eliminator. It's a very good medicine for bettas. Be aware that antibiotics in the water will kill off some of the good bacteria that you are trying to establish to get your cycle started. Antibiotics aren't picky about which bacteria they kill, whether it's the bad bacteria that's affecting the fish, or the good bacteria that you want to cycle your tank. I suppose using a med now would not hurt, since you're not cycled yet; however, rather than try the med right away, I would work on getting the temperature stable with a heater and get used to testing/changing water first. That should help the finrot. If the betta gets drastically worse, then add the medicine. Remove the bio-wheel and that carbon insert from your filter if you do add meds - carbon will absorb the medicine out of the water. It's a good idea to do a water change and run carbon after you're done using a medicine to remove any last traces of a med. You'll also want to keep doing your ammonia checks, since even a cycled tank can have a small ammonia spike due to antibiotic use. It is recommended to use medicines in another tank, called a QT tank. That way, you aren't harming the good bacteria in your main tank. I have an acrylic 2.5 gallon minibow aquarium for this purpose.

Bettas' fins don't grow back very quickly after a bout of finrot. It depends on how severe it was, but it may take a few months before the fins regain their color and length. I have noticed a clear edge to the fin as it is growing back. It's like a clear or transparent piece of "skin" growing around the bad areas. Gradually, the color and length of the fin will return, but the fin may not look exactly the same as before. There could be slight color variations in the new growth.

About the pantyhose, yes, I've had it "bubble up" too. As long as you're not impeding the bio-wheel you'll be fine. Don't be alarmed if it looks grungy after a while. Just take it off and swish it in the removed tank water that you just took out after a water change to rinse it. Oh - put your bio-wheel in this water too, to make sure it doesn't dry out and lose its bacteria during a water change. I used to take kind of a long time to do water changes when I had my bio-wheel tank planted with live plants. I just floated the bio-wheel in the bucket of old water and trimmed up the plants and replanted without worrying about the bio-wheel.

 

[thats_so_fab]

Re: thanks for your advice, any more advice?

I am getting get too stressed over one betta fish, that is for sure!!! I can't imagine how I would be with a cat or dog
quote]
i know exactly how you feel.. people go it's only one fish, big deal and you just look at them and laugh..

 

[riccinbru]

Hi Bettafriend,

One of my bettas shredded his tail on his plastic plant until it was quite short and stubby, about a centimetre long. I removed the plastic plant (had two silk ones in there as well), and replaced it with a live one. Four months later, his tail has grown back completely, and without infection to slow it down.

I also wanted to point out that even though your water is "crystal clear," ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte have no colour. The colour of your water is not a good way to judge whether or not it is clean enough for your fish. Weekly or twice-weekly water changes are so important to keep Christmas alive and healthy, especially if his tail is shredded. All the information I found when Ferrari's tail was that way said: do partial water changes often to keep the environment clean, so that the fins don't get infected. Even when he gets better, keep in mind that the colour of the water isn't everything.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[bettafriend]

Hello everyone,

Today I did a one gallon change of my betta fish 'Christmas' water in his 5 gallon tank. I decide to go ahead and try the fungus eliminator crystals that I was recommended by a tropical fish store. Then in four days I will do another water change of one gallon and then treat again. What I am wondering about is. I mixed the fungus eliminator crystals with some of the water I was adding but now Chrismas's tanks is rather yellow and it's got some of the crystals floating on the top , looks like pollen. I know the crystals have a very bright yellow color. Is the water now forever yellow? Or after the second water change and treatment will I need to change all the water for the yellow color to go? Just curious because it doesn't look appealing at all! I hope it goes cause I don't want to look at a yellow tank that looks like pee and pollen floating on the top!

I am going to look into getting a heater but now the water seem to be a bit warmer since yesterday at a temp about 74 degrees. It's just I can't afford a very expensive heater.

Anyways if anyone has used this fugus eliminator that is tinted yellow can you let me know what happens to the color of the water if it's stuck at yellow or what I do. By the way I took the carbon filter cartridge out as I know causes the medication to not work. I did leave the filter running though although what good it will do without the cartridge I dought much.

Bye for now and thanks!

 

[An t-iasg]

It is better to measure out the dose of Jungle Fungus Eliminator for your tank size. I use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. Put some tank water into a plastic cup, and add the amount of Fungus Eliminator for the whole tank in the cup. It doesn't matter how much water is in the cup, as long as all the Fungus Eliminator is dissolved. I stir it around with a plastic spoon until it dissolves. Pour this mixture into the tank and stir the water surface gently a few times. It will turn the water yellow until you do your water change at the end of the treatment. After this water change, it will look slightly less yellow. Put the carbon back in the filter to remove the rest of the medication and the yellow color. You may want to have a fresh carbon insert on hand to remove the medicine quickly.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Figured I'ld chime in since your LFS is taking you for a ride..

I can get heaters (150W) for under 25$, typical pricing is about 30$ tho. (for anything below 200w) There is also a 7.5w which would be underrated for your tank, but at 18$ if it fits your budget then it would be a better option. (same store as link below)
50W
They also have their own brand of heater for 10$ (50w), but they are unreliable at best, a pain to set, and touching them can adjust their temperature, best to avoid them.

I'ld also mention that Petsmart is generally cheaper then a lot of specialty stores.

As for sales staff, most are unqualified tho there is the occasional person who you can learn a great deal from.

Best of luck with the fish.

 

[Serge]

Welcome to AA!




8)

 

[bettafriend]

Hello everyone,

It's been some time since I posted on here so thought I would let you know how Christmas (my red betta fish) is doing. I have changed his water 16 cups of it and medicated him. 5 days later I changed 16 cups of water and medicated him again this was on Saturday. So in aprox 4 or 5 days I will change the water 16 cups once again and then put the filter pad back in and let the filter start working again. His fins are still frayed at the ends and still black. More frayed but not too much blacker. He still swims a lot and makes bubble nests. He eats 2 pellets in the morning and 2 at night with no problems. I will just change 16 cups water about once a week and if nothing else seems to be wrong I will leave it at that. He seems to be happy as far as I know so that is good.

Well that is all for now.
Bettafriend

 

[bettafriend]

Neon tetras and beta trying to eat them and other questions

Hello everyone,

It's been some time since I posted on here. I had quite an experience with my beta 'Christmas' on Sunday. I went to a pet store and got 6 neon tetras, first asking if they were okay to put with my beta. I was assured they were and also I saw a beta with the neon tetras and they were fine. I was also told I could put them in the tank right away when I got home as well as the water as it had jus been changed at the store. So this is what I did and let me tell you Christmas went nuts! He is a hyper fish to begin with but he went after these neon tetras like they were food. He kept nipping at them and swimming after them. This went on for about a minute before I realized this was not going to work and didn't want to take any chances. So I took my beta fish out and put him in a vase with the water from the tank. By the way the tank he was in was 5 gallons. I made sure I put some gravel in the bottom of the vase. He seems to be happy all though not as hyper as he was but at times he is hyper like his true self. He no longer flairs though like he did in his five gallon tank. I know a lot of you fish experts would say this is cruel to put him into a vase but it was that or have the neon tetras eaten or die due to stress! I can't afford a lot so doing the best I can.

As you know from my other posts that I got my 'Christmas' and tank, filter etc as a Christmas present from my boyfriend. So I really don't want to buy another tank nor want another tank. I was thinking of getting a fish bowl which is quite a bit bigger than the vase he is in now. Luck was with me today and I found a bowl in a thrift store for 2 bucks. I already have a plant (silk this time so as not to harm his fins) and I am going to buy some gravel tomorrow to put in the fish bowl. I do have a few questions:
1. Once I get the water, plant rocks etc. in the tank and conditioned and wait at least 24 hours or more before I think of putting Christmas in it should I put him into a plastic bag and float him in the new water for a bit?

2. Then should I gradually add a bit of the new water with his old and get him use to it? How long a period should I do this in , if I should do this ? Also is it okay to secure the bag with a elastic band while the bag is floating? I am just checking this out with all you fish experts as I read things on the net and I get all sorts of ideas.

3. Then should I add the old water with the new or just add Christmas and get rid of the old water?

Any help to get him into the bigger fish bowl would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
I hope this isn't going to stress Christmas out too much!

Now for the neon tetras. Yesterday they did not want to eat and so I went to the tropical fish store here where I live and was given some stuff to put in the water. I put some in when I got home and more tonight. I was told not to feed the fish until the water gets to a good level. He things it's the waters conditon, amonia etc that is causing them to stress out and not eat. Well today out of curiousity I gave a bit of a flake of food to the neon tetras and a couple ate them fine. They seem to eat it once the food goes to the bottom of the tank as the filter moves the food too much I think for them to get at it. My questions are:

1. The stuff is called Cycle by Nutrafin, I was told I should put a tiny bit in each day for a weej and then try feeding them again. Is it really okay to put a bit in each day? I was told that the fish won't die cause of lack of food but because of the water conditions is this so? Is it okay to stop feeding them for a while?

2. Since a couple of them ate the food should I continue to feed them. I was told once in the morning and once at night. I also wonder how much to give them I was giving a flake at a time although I was told I could a pinch, a pinch seemed a lot.

3. The flake food is all different colors if I give a flake at a time should I give a different color each time? They seem to go for the pink more from what I see so far. I am wondering if they were just stressed from the beta nipping at them so they didn't want to eat for a bit?

4. I was thinking of getting a few more neon tetras and some other fish for the tank as the neon tetras are so small for a 5 gallon tank. What are good fish to put in with them and for the size of tank I have? I was looking at an angle fish which I am told is okay with neon tetras am I right on this? Also should I wait a while and see if the neon tetras survive for a while before adding any more fish?

Well I had better leave it at this for now sorry for the long message. To anyone that read this far thanks for reading and hope someone can help me out as it's very much appreciated.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the tetras. Always do your own research and don't believe everything the lfs tells you. It's unfortunate, but sometimes they don't offer correct advice. For instance, the angel you were thinking about...angels are incompatible with the neon teteras and may even eat them. A little angel, the size of a nickel, is so cute, but he will grow (depending on the exact type of angel) to maybe be as big as your hand. That's definitely too big for a 5 gallon tank. I would just leave the 6 neons in there. Don't overdo the bioload and you'll make it easier on yourself. As far as the Cycle product, I wouldn't use it as I can't see what good it will do. It won't compensate for daily ammonia checks and water changes. You will need to do ammonia tests on the water daily to see when to do a water change, until the tank cycles. You may have to do a water change daily too. I would feed very sparingly - just a tiny pinch - until the tank cycles. You'll make it harder on yourself if you overfeed and produce more ammonia. I have heard of fish liking one flake color over another. Flakes are fine, but give them a variety of food. My fish like freeze-dried bloodworms and daphnia. Do some google searches to see if tetras will eat bloodworms also. I think they will, but it's good to research on your own also!

For the betta, if his bowl is 1 gallon, I would do a 40-50% water change every day. If it's 2 gallons, a guideline is a 40-50% change every other day. Check the ammonia levels frequently in the beginning until you get a feel for when they rise and when to do a change. To acclimate him, I would use another small container. Put some of his old water and him in this container. Take a cup of water from the new bowl out. Pour a little bit of water from the cup (the new water) into his old water every 10 minutes or so. Continue this for about 45 minutes. Net him and place him into the new bowl. Discard the acclimation water. Top off the bowl if necessary (to replace what you took out in the cup) with aged tap water. Don't forget the dechlorinator! I keep a bottled water jug with some aged tap water handy in case I need to do some water topoffs during the week. It's a good idea also to have some aged tapwater on hand for water changes. To get aged tap water, I fill my jug from the faucet and let it sit without the lid for about 24 hours. I don't float a closed bag in the new water. I read somewhere that an enclosed bag of water is not very good for them to be in for too long, so I use the acclimation method that I described. It gets the fish adjusted to the new water and the temperature. If you acclimate within the 45 minute timeframe, or thereabouts, you shouldn't have an issue with the temps swinging. Hope this helps.