Help! Ammonia and Nitrites high overnight. Nitrates disappeared

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fishfriend1010

Aquarium Advice Newbie
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Kansas Coty
I have an established planted tank (a couple months) with fish. My levels were all reading well until a couple days ago. I added root tabs and fertilizer and lightly cleaned my filter. Since, my ammonia and nitrites spiked, pH dropped to 6.0, and my fish are extremely stressed. My nitrates also disappeared entirely. I’m unsure of what to do. I’ve been doing 50% water changes daily and added beneficial bacteria, but it seems that nothing will lower the levels. Any suggestions?
 
I wouldnt describe a couple month old aquarium as established.

Youve lost your cycle. It might take months to re-establish same as cycling a tank from scratch.

Do you know how to cycle a tank with fish?

What precisely are your ammonia and nitrite results immediately before a water change?

How did you clean the filter? Might you have used chlorinated water to rinse any filter media?

Do you know your carbonate hardness? Your pH drop could be a sign of low carbonate hardness which would inhibit the nitrogen cycle?

What sort of water change schedule have you been working to during those couple of months.

How big is the tank? What fish, how many fish? When did you last add new fish?

With such a low pH, you can ignore ammonia as at that level ammonia will be non toxic ammonium. Nitrite however is more toxic at low pH than high pH.
 
until a couple days ago. I added root tabs and fertilizer and lightly cleaned my filter. Since, my ammonia and nitrites spiked, pH dropped to 6.0, and my fish are extremely stressed. My nitrates
When you lightly cleaned your filter, what exactly did you do? What kind of filter is it? The filter's job is to break down the ammonia, and it looks like that is not happening right now.

The only thing you can do is the daily water changes and add beneficial bacteria to build up the nitrification bacteria with each water change. Add enough de-chlorinator for the whole tank because that will temporarily detoxify ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for 48hrs before they are released. I used SeaChem Prime and SeaChem Stabilizer for the beneficial bacteria.
Here is a good video on it: Fish Tank Ammonia - How to fix it right now

FYI:
API makes a nice product called API Nitra-Zorb that works really well to prevent ammonia spikes while the filter is establishing bacteria. An interesting study of the product is here: Nitra-zorb study pdf
 
Thanks for the advice!

I’ve been doing water changes and adding bacteria. About how long should this process take?

I have a 15 gal tank with 5 fish (danios and platys as recommended by local shop).

I have a sponge filter. When I cleaned it I lightly swirled it around in tank water that I had just removed. Made sure not to squeeze and was trying to be gentle to avoid losing bacteria. I did it because my tank had gotten excessively cloudy and I noticed my filter wasn’t working as well as usual. It fixed the cloudiness.

The last couple months I’ve been doing a 25% water change every 1.5 weeks. My levels have stayed good in doing so, and everything seemed to be going well.
 
API makes a nice product called API Nitra-Zorb that works really well to prevent ammonia spikes while the filter is establishing bacteria. An interesting study of the product is here: Nitra-zorb study pdf
Anything that absorbs ammonia will prevent a tank from cycling by starving the microbes you are trying to grow. These products are nothing but a temporary solution that prevent the nitrogen cycle establishing. These products only work for so long before they get "filled up", after which you will start to see ammonia start to rise again because the nitrogen cycle wont have established.

A colleague of mine started using a similar product to this, i warned him of the consequences. That it would kill his cycle. Took about a month before his fish started dying of ammonia poisoning.
 
Thanks for the advice!

I’ve been doing water changes and adding bacteria. About how long should this process take?

I have a 15 gal tank with 5 fish (danios and platys as recommended by local shop).

I have a sponge filter. When I cleaned it I lightly swirled it around in tank water that I had just removed. Made sure not to squeeze and was trying to be gentle to avoid losing bacteria. I did it because my tank had gotten excessively cloudy and I noticed my filter wasn’t working as well as usual. It fixed the cloudiness.

The last couple months I’ve been doing a 25% water change every 1.5 weeks. My levels have stayed good in doing so, and everything seemed to be going well.
Cycling a tank typically takes a couple of months. It can take 2 or 3 weeks, more commonly 6 to 8 weeks, sometimes 3 or 4 months.

In the first few months your aquarium is very fragile. Even a light rinsing of the filtration might be enough to remove enough microbes to effect your cycle.

Do you know how to cycle a tank with fish?

These bacteria in a bottle products are very hit and miss. Mostly miss. Some products are better than others, but mostly they dont do anything. Aquarium product manufacturers will put any claims they can to get you to buy them. Most dont do what they claim, or fix problems that dont exist, or in some cases are outright harmful. Even the bottled bacteria products that have a better track record, if they arent transported and stored in temperature controlled conditions, the microbes are dead in the bottle before you bought it.

What product are you using?

Really need the actual numbers ln the testing. Preferably before a water change. Saying things like "levels stayed good" doesnt really tell us anything because we have no idea what you consider good. Knowing carbonate hardness would also be useful, because your pH drop is indicative of low KH, and low KH might inhibit the nitrogen cycle. If its really low then it might stop the nitrogen cycle functioning at all.
 
Anything that absorbs ammonia will prevent a tank from cycling by starving the microbes you are trying to grow. These products are nothing but a temporary solution that prevent the nitrogen cycle establishing. These products only work for so long before they get "filled up", after which you will start to see ammonia start to rise again because the nitrogen cycle wont have established.

A colleague of mine started using a similar product to this, i warned him of the consequences. That it would kill his cycle. Took about a month before his fish started dying of ammonia poisoning.
The study they published showed it didnt stop the biological filter from developing, and yes, it is not intended to be used as a long term solution but only to establish a new tank.
 
Like i said, many of these products make claims they cant actually back up. The product either absorbs ammonia or it doesnt. If it absorbs ammonia, that reduces the amount of food available to those microbes and restricts their growth. The study actually admits that using their product will cause the microbes to "grow more slowly or form a smaller colony", and that when its removed ammonia will start to rise. Their study only looked at 4 aquariums, only 2 of which used this product. How many studies didnt produce the results they wanted to see so they dont mention those? Where is the complete published data? Has anyone repeated their experimentation with a larger sample size than 2 aquariums? Im sorry, but taking APIs claims at face value is naive when the general consensus of peoples experience is that these products arent helpful while cycling. This is common with aquarium product manufacturers. API arent the worst at saying whatever people want to hear just for sales, that goes to Seachem. Ive lost count of the number of experiences of people asking what happened to my cycle? Whats happened is they were never cycled, but they had the appearance of being cycled because chemical media was doing all the work. When the chemical media got used up or removed and the cycle was never established, result toxic water and dead fish.

I can concede that these Zeolite or Zeolite like products may have some use when used in an already cycled, established aquarium to help prevent sudden ammonia spikes where they are located after the biological filter media so that any excess ammonia is removed after the microbes have had first crack at the food. But while you are cycling you need that ammonia circulating through the filtration. Control the ammonia to safe levels through regular water changes. These products may have some use in very acidic aquariums where the nitrogen cycle cant establish due to the low pH/ KH, but in these circumstances ammonia is non toxic anyway.
 
I believe there are many misunderstandings about the cycle. These misunderstandings often come from poor advice from the shop where you buy the aquarium and all the bits and pieces, then ask a well meaning but not always knowledgeable shop assistant for advice on how get started.

The times there have been people...and not just newbies to fishkeeping...who start off with every good intention, following advice from the shops and then discover a wiped out aquarium with dead and dying fish.

Average terms a fishless cycle can take 8+ weeks and if you do the more risky fish in cycle, it can take 16+ weeks. Sometimes you can succeed in less time but very rarely. Despite the media blurb, there isn't an instant way to cycle, it always takes time and patience...lots and lots of time and patience. Infact you discover just how much patience you possess (or not) when you have an aquarium.

TV series such as Tanked really do not help matters, they miss out the waiting period from filling the aquarium with substrate, ornaments, plants and water to when the aquarium is actually safe and healthy for fish to thrive.

The use of additives can be a double edged sword. Yes they might promise and instant fix but at the same time, and especially in a new aquarium or one under 6 months old, that same additive can be deadly.

At my previous address I successfully had fish thrive for years but using bottled water due to the tap water being completely unsuited to any fish. To use that water I would have been throwing a virtual chemist shop of additives into it and that, to me, is not going to allow my fish to thrive.

Where I am now, the water is somewhat better but a tad high on nitrate, so I use an appropriate media within the external filter to combat that.

My own opinion on this would be that you get fish that are suited to your water, not force fish to live in the water that you have.....yes they might swim around and eat and act relatively normally but they rarely thrive.

As to the cycle aspect, "a couple of months" is, as others have rightly said, is not truly established, not even as a planted aquarium. You may also find that the root tabs and fertiliser has stalled the cycle in a similar way that ammonia locking additives will stall it, it isn't unheard of that some brands of root tab and fertiliser can spike in young aquariums.....and that just extends the time taken to cycle fully plus with fish in the aquarium, they will be suffering from the side effects too.
 
Let me toss my 2 cents in here. There needs to be a more complete understanding as to what " cycling" is and is actually doing.
I know I get pedantic about it ;) but I hate that we call the "cycle" a thing because the cycle is just a process and not a thing that you lose or gain. The process of " cycling" a tank is the establishing of the biological "filter" /bed that contains microbes that convert the natural toxic byproducts of living organisms to a less/non toxic state. This is the cycling process in graph form. Nitrogen cycle.jpg

There is a lot of information and people now that insist that it's no longer nitrosomonas and nitrobacters that are doing the converting of ammonia and nitrites into the end nitrate product so we are probably better off just saying " Nitrifying Microbes" or " Biological filter bed" so that everybody is happy. ;) ( No one can argue that their favorite nitrifying bacteria or currently accepted germ is not a microbe. ;) (y) In the end, it doesn't really matter what is doing the process only that SOMETHING is doing the process. ) Since the biological filter bed is a living " organism" unto itself that grows and shrinks based on the amount of ammonia present in the aquarium, it is possible to lose the bed where the tank needs to go through the cycling process again. So what does a " cycled" tank mean? A cycled tank is just a tank with enough microbes in it to handle the ammonia production in the tank at that time. You can cycle a tank for 1 fish, 2 fish, 5 fish, 100 fish, etc. so that means that when the cycling process is done and if it was done with only 1 small fish in the tank, the tank is cycled only for 1 small fish. Same with 20 large fish ( or more or less fish) . At the end, there are enough microbes to handle the ammonia production of those 20 large fish or however many fish are present. Here's the catch tho, you cannot add those 20 large fish into a tank that was cycled with just 1 small fish even tho it's " cycled". There just aren't enough microbes present to handle that amount of ammonia production from the start so a new " cycling" process will occur where the existing microbes will multiply , rapidly thankfully, to catch up with ammonia and nitrite production. How fast they reproduce is dependent on the water parameters as those microbes need certain parameters to live and grow so there is no one definite answer to " how long it's going to take?" ( more on this further down the post.)

I'll argue the comment that you can't instantly cycle a tank. I did it routinely in my hatcheries. It's done by adding the nitrifying microbes from an established biological filter bed into a new tank. The key to success tho is not overloading that new tank while the bed grows more if there is now more ammonia than the bed was processing in the other tank. So for example: Take the filter, the decorations and substrate from a 10 gallon tank and place it in a 50 gallon tank and add the same fish from the 10 gallon tank into the 50 gallon tank and the tank will be cycled for that amount of fish, instantly. What these bacteria products do is basically inoculate the tank with the microbes but without a microscope and a lot of fingers and toes or a really high counting machine, you won't know how many microbes you added into the tank or how much ammonia they can handle or if they were even alive when you added them so they are a crap shoot most of the time. ( There is another aspect to using these " bacteria in a bottle" products but that's for another discussion. )

As I previously stated, the rate of time to cycle a tank is dependent on water parameters. We know that the "perfect" parameters for the microbes are: Temperature: 77-86 F (25-30 C). pH: The average pH range for optimal nitrification is 7.3-8.0. If you have temperatures reasonably below 77F, the microbes will still work but not as quickly. If you go above 86, the microbes may not die but will be highly ineffective. Above 120 F and they will die. ( This is why when you have a heater failure, you need to know how hot the water got to know if you need to re-cycle the tank.) If you have a pH below 7.3 the growth rate of nitrifying microbes slows. If you go below 6.0, nitrification is almost at a stand still. If it gets to 5.0, nitrification stops entirely. ( The good news is that at 5.0, toxic ammonia has been converted to non/less toxic ammonium so who cares if there is no nitrification because there will be no nitrites or nitrates. (y) ) Then you need to add in that the microbes need magnesium, phosphate and other minerals as well as OXYGEN in order to function so you want a minimum KH of 80 PPM if you want to cycle your tank in a reasonable amount of time.

Back to "How long does it take?": there is no concrete number as to how long it take under "these" parameters. It takes as long as it takes. It could be days, weeks or months all depending on how you did it and what your water parameters are. Before the " fishless" cycle was in the hobby, everybody did a " fish in" cycle. If you did it right with the correct fish, they lived through the whole process. If you did it right with the wrong fish, you killed the fish. :( In the end tho, you had ammonia being produced, a microbe that converted that ammonia into nitrites and another microbe that converted the nitrites into nitrates and when the ammonia and nitrites went from 0 to some higher number and then back to 0, you had a cycled tank and you had fish swimming around in the tank during the process. With the " fishless" method, you have to have an ammonia source for the cycling process to start and the amount of ammonia suggested to use is usually higher than the average fish tank full of fish produces. What will happen in the end tho is if you add more fish than the amount of microbes you created can convert quickly, they will reproduce and make more microbes. If you add less fish that need less of the microbes you created, the amount of microbes will just decrease by starvation. ( It's always better to add less fish than more at one time for this reason. You should never fully stock a tank at one time no matter which method you use.)

So that's the cycling process in a nutshell. As you can see, it's more involved than just throwing some bacteria in the water. Sadly, as wasmewasntit posted, you don't get this kind of in depth information in many stores anymore or even online from most sites but it IS important to know so that you don't waste your time or money and don't kill a number of fish along the way. Once you know and understand this, you increase your chances of really enjoying the hobby of fish keeping because you will understand what's happening in the tank. You'll know that you can add too many fish at one time to a tank. You'll know that testing your water is a part of the hobby that you just can't avoid in the beginning. You'll understand that just because you had 10 fish in a tank a year ago but only had 1 fish in the tank for the past 3 months that you can't add back the 9 fish without a major amount of ammonia poisoning the tank in water above a pH of 6.8. In the end you will become a scientist with a really healthy bunch of tanks or as my Mentor, a certified Ichthyologist, said to me as he was teaching me all this stuff, " This is like going to school but you don't get a diploma at the end. Your diploma is a tank full of healthy fish, swimming around and you enjoying watching them."

Hope this helps. (y)
 
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