help, fish dying!

[kmlong]

I'm not sure whats going on here but im losing a fish every week now. Water parameters are fine. Everything is ok in the health of my aquarium. I lost my guaramis last night. Overnight he became skinny and thin with no visible signs of sickness. I hope there is nothing in my tank that would not show up on water tests. Is there a general type of medication that i can put in even if other fish aren't sick? Just kinda like a clear up medication just in case something is in my tank. Problem is the cartridge to my mini biowheel has carbon in it and you can open them up to get it out. I know carbon will remove meds. Also, do quarantine tanks have to be set up and cycled, heater, filter, etc, and when you quarantine do you take water from the tank you took the fish out of or do you put in fresh dechlorinated water? This is a FW tank with 3 red minor tetra's, 2 danios(used to be 4), 3 rasbora's(used to be 4), 2 oto's(used to be 3), did have a guaramis, and I have one betta. I alternate food between aquarian flakes, blood worms, betta pellets(which the other fish love), and hikari micro pellets. They seem to love the variations! Anyone with suggestions or ideas please leave them. I don't do water changes till my nitrates are above 40 and sometimes that takes 1-2 weeks to get there. I guess the best way to ger rid of any questionable sickness in my tank would be to do a larger than normal water change, like a 50% instead of 25% change. I don't think i did anything wrong. I wash my hands before i do anything in the tank. I have dedicated equipment that i only use for the tank. I'm thinking just maybe unhealthy fish is what it was but something had to make them unhealthy.

 

[kmlong]

sorry, i meant you CAN'T open the biowheel cartridges

 

[An t-iasg]

I also replied in the Unhealthy Fish forum...http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=32973

If you don't see anything visible on the fish, and they are skinny, maybe they have parasites. You could have bought them with parasites. Is their waste white and stringy? That's a sign of parasites. Here's a link: http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/aquarium.detail.asp?item=70

You could try the Jungle Parasite Guard, Parasite Clear, and Pepso food on the sick fish. Pepso can be fed once a week to prevent a parasite re-occurance.

There isn't really an "all-purpose" general med; each med treats a specific disease or group of related diseases. I know it's frustrating, but keep an eye on their symptoms and tell us if they change, and keep checking the water parameters too. When you wash your hands before working in the tank, rinse very well so you don't get any soap residue in the tank.

 

[kmlong]

The guaramis did have long stringy waste. But he was like that ever since i bought him about 4 months ago. It was like a string that never seemed to want to stop. I had no idea that was a sign of parasites. Can i treat the water with these meds you suggested even if the fish have no signs of parasites or problems as a preventitive? Or maybe feed Pepso food every once in awhile. I'm really paranoid about getting up every morning or coming home at night and finding another sick fish. They don't seem to be giving me much warning here! I wouldn't have had time to revive any of the ones i lost, thats how fast it comes on. Thanks for the help.

 

[An t-iasg]

I wouldn't suggest treating the whole tank with Parasite Guard or Parasite Clear just as a preventative measure. But you can feed the Pepso food once a week as a preventative. If it's too big for some of the fish, cut it down a little bit.

Was the gourami's waste a long string all the time? Was it white or black? (I know; it's embarrasing to talk about fish poop! ) White stringy waste usually indicates parasites, while black stringy waste is a sign of constipation. I had a betta once that always seemed to have a string sticking to him. Do you feed peas once a week? This helps with the constipation. I have always fed peas once a week to the bettas that I have now, and I have never seen a string sticking to them. Well, actually I did once -- when I forgot to give the peas one week!

I put some peas in a "fish only" glass measuring cup, fill it with about 1/2 cup of water (I use bottled water instead of tap), and heat on high for 4 minutes. I use frozen peas; I find that they don't become "mush" as you are trying to cut them up, or in the tank water. If you start out with canned peas, only heat for about a minute. Let the peas cool, and peel and discard the skin. Cut the pea into small pieces - about the same size as the food that the fish are used to eating. I use a plastic spoon to feed some very small pieces of pea to the betta. I have 2 bettas, and I give them each about 1/4 of one pea.

I give the peas on Saturday, and then on Sunday, I don't feed the fish. Giving their digestive system a rest one day a week is good also.

 

[kmlong]

Its just as i thought. I came home tonight and now one of my 2 remaining oto's is dead and the other is on his way out as we speak. Something has got to be going around in this tank! Should i do a big water change or what?

 

[An t-iasg]

Go ahead and do a water change. Have you tested your parameters recently? I just kind of noticed something in your first post ( sorry I didn't see it sooner) that you don't do a water change until the nitrates are above 40 ppm. Otos are sensitive to nitrates, and really prefer the nitrates below 20 ppm. If possible, you should be doing weekly water changes of 20-25%. You don't have to gravel-vac the whole tank each week. Vacuum half of the gravel, but remove 20-25% of the water at each change. Sometimes the problem with doing 50% changes once every 2 weeks is that you are introducing a very large quantity of new water, and that may stress the fish, especially if the pH or temperature of the new water is different from the old water. Then you have a temperature or pH swing, and this may cause stress. Of course, if you have high ammonia, for example, then leaving that ammonia in the tank would be more stressful than a large water change. In this case, the otos are stressed from the high nitrates.

So, I would do another test of all your parameters, and do a 50% water change if the nitrates are above 40 ppm. If your nitrates are still high, do another 20-25% change every few days until the nitrates are under control. Then weekly changes of 20-25% should keep the nitrates under control. If the nitrates are still high, test your source water for nitrates.

Here's an interesting article on otos that I found: http://www.otocinclus.com/newoto.html
This article says that otos must constantly eat in order to be healthy. They must have algae or some vegetables like zucchini in the tank. Under the title "Starving", click on "Feeding Page".

 

[An t-iasg]

An easy way to keep nitrates low is to add some plants. This is not a substitute for water changes, but it may be something you can try. Planted tanks require a little bit of a different setup than non-planted tanks, but there is one plant you can try without changing your tank into a planted tank -- java moss. I have 2 clumps each of java moss in my 5 gallon tanks. The java moss just rests on the gravel and it only requires low light. I do have a clump anchored to the side of the tank for the bettas to sit on, but you could just let it rest on the gravel. I also dose Seachem Flourish plant fertilizer twice a week. The moss is very hardy, and doesn't require any care other than the fertilizer. The nitrates in my tank are 0. My tanks don't have a big bio-load, so my nitrates weren't high before the moss, but if you added moss, along with weekly water changes, the nitrates should be below 20 ppm, a comfortable range for the otos.

 

[kmlong]

My parameters are great. I have no problems with Nitrates. In fact i can go a week or two with the nitrates holding steady at about 20. I found this hard to believe but it is true. that is why i was only doing water changes every two weeks but i was only doing 25%. I was just curious if i should do a really big water change in case something was in the tank. I was looking at that parasite clear stuff from jungle. It doesn't say if you can treat the whole tank or not. The other fish seem to be fine but then out of no where another one just drops over. I'm stumped!! The oto is still alive. I can't figure these thing out either. He was stuck fast to the filter intake and upside down. I went to take him out and he swam away like nothing was even wrong, like he was sleeping purposely like that! Are these oto's lazy fish? He'll go through spurts where he is active and sucking away then he lazes around, on his side, on the gravel, whatever. Then when i think he is dead, he seems just fine. Well, An t-iasg get back to me about putting parasite clear in the tank as a preventitive. I know you said to use the pepso food once a week or so, i have to find it first. If there are parasites in my water are they actually living in the water or are they in the fish. The guarami was one of my original fish when i started 4 months ago and the other fish that were with him are ok with the exception of the 2 danio's i lost.

 

[An t-iasg]

Here is an online website that has Pepso food: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004
I see that you are in Lancaster, PA -- are you near That Pet Place-That Fish Place? You could get the Pepso food there, without waiting for it to come in the mail, or pay shipping.

If you want to feed the Pepso food, go ahead, but I still don't think that you should treat the whole tank. You have danios, a betta, and the oto, right? What other fish are in there now, and what are their symptoms? I have read about fish who act dead, and then they start swimming again. Anyway, here is a description of parasite symptoms: http://www.thatpetplace.com/Product...ions/T1/F62+0192+0125/EDP/18205/Itemdy00.aspx
Look over this list of symptoms carefully and see if they apply to your fish. When medicating fish, it's good to be sure of what you're treating. Sometimes it's difficult to determine what the fish have, but you should be as sure as you can before treating for something. Otherwise, you waste your money and unnecessarily stress the fish.

In your first post, you said that you don't do a water change until your nitrates are above 40 ppm, and that the nitrates could take two weeks to rise that high. While sometimes it's ok to skip a water change, like if you get really busy, and we all do from time to time -- it's really best to do water changes once a week. Especially for your oto, who is sensitive to nitrates above 20 ppm. I do water changes once a week, and my nitrates are always 0. The trouble with waiting two weeks for a change is that you may need to change 50% of the tank water volume, to get the parameters back on track. It's more stressful for the fish when you do such large water changes. It's much better for the health of the tank, and the fish, to do regular water changes, once a week, of 20-25% of the tank volume. Once you get on a schedule of once a week changes, I think you'll see that the health of the tank and the fish will be better.

 

[kmlong]

yes, that fish place & pet place is right down the road from me. They are so expensive though! Well, the oto is dead now. He died the next morning. I just assumed you were ok with nitrates till you got to about 40 which is like the caution zone from what i've read. I'm just curious if there is parasite in my tank and then they just randomly attack a fish. That is why i was curious as to what i could use in the whole tank if anything. I will check out the post's you listed.

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi kmlong,
I'm sorry about your oto. Different fish have different tolerances of nitrate. A lot of freshwater fish are ok with a nitrate range of 20-40 ppm, but otos are more sensitive.

Parasites can live in the water, and on the fish -- it depends on where the parasites are in their life cycle. If there are parasites in the tank, they will find your fish. That's why I was asking what symptoms the fish had. Parasites can be introduced to your tank from new fish, live food, or tank water from a lfs. (but hopefully lfs doesn't have parasites! That's why you should QT new fish and don't put the lfs water in your water). Parasite meds can be used in the tank -- they won't harm the good cycling bacteria in your tank, as long as they are not combined with an antibiotic. The meds should be removed with carbon when you're done with the treatment. But you should be as certain as you can that you need the med first -- or you may waste your money and stress the fish.

What fish do you have left, and what are their symptoms? Did you do a recent test of the water parameters?

That Fish Place/Pet Place looks like a nice store! I've never been there, just ordered from the website. I thought shipping would be cheap since I was in-state but it wasn't!

 

[kmlong]

All the other fish are fine. Did a water change yesterday and other parameters are zero, ph still coming in at 7.6. I've got 3 rasbora's left, 3 red tetra's, 2 danio's, male betta, rubber lip pleco. What should i do with the carbon in the cartridge on my biowheel? Should i cut the back open and empty it out or what? I think i will treat with parasite clear and then do a water change like they recommend. The thing is that the other fish i lost showed no signs until they were dying and then it was too late so now i'm paranoid!

 

[An t-iasg]

If the remaning fish are fine, do you still think you need to treat the whole tank? Are any of the fish lethargic, skinny, not eating, or rubbing against things? I do understand your concern, though, since the gouramis' symptoms may have indicated parasites. So if you treat the whole tank, you should remove the carbon while you treat. I used to have a bio-wheel tank a few years ago. In the tank I had, you could snap out the carbon cartridge. Can you do that in yours? I remember that you couldn't buy loose or bulk carbon for this filter; you had to buy those pre-filled cartridges. After treatment, to remove the meds, you should use fresh carbon for 5-7 days, and then throw away that carbon, since it's now full of the medication. There is some debate as to whether carbon will release the meds and other impurities back into the water after a few weeks of collecting the impurities from the water. To be on the safe side, after the 5-7 days, just throw this carbon cartridge away. I remember these carbon cartridges as being rather expensive. The bio-wheel can stay in place since the fungus med shouldn't hurt the good bacteria. But after using any treatment in the tank, make sure to check the water parameters often. I would check them every day during treatment, unless the med turns the water a color that would make it hard to read the test results. Good luck!