Help, FlameAngel is dying!

[35galSWfish]

My new Flame Angelfish started circeling to the right this afternoon, occationally swimming backwards, going against the rocks. I guess he seemed itchy or maybe neurologic, later rasing around and occationally hitting his head on rocks. I thought maybe it's ick (no spots or scrapes on him except a little beaten lower finn), so I placed him into 83F treated freshwater for 4 min and returned him to my SW tank and turned the temp higher (80ish). He continued the circeling and occationally resting upside down against a rock in the bottom of the tank. 1 or 2 hrs ago I kept finding him against the filter inlet. I made him a cave but he somehow keeps making it out and drifts around until back at the inlet. He isn't eating, well he is too disoriented to eat. Is there anything to be done to save him? What could cause this? Are my other fish in danger (clowns, blue tang, puffer, or the shrimps/crabs)?

 

[TheTodd]

Please provide info. What size tank? What are your parameters? How did you acclimate The angel? What other fish, how long have they been in there?

 

[35galSWfish]

I bought an established 35 gal SW tank w/ 55 lb LR in Dec. It came w/ 2 Clarkii Clowns (and a Trigger and a Damsel, one ate the other and I so the Trigger had to find a new home). Parameters have been good most of the time since I have the tank, the tank did cicle for 3 to 4 weeks. Lately it's always 0 NO3, 0.5ppm NO2, 425 hardness, 240 ppm Alkalinity, 7.6 to 8.0 pH. Over the last few weeks I added a CUC, 2 fire , 2 Pacific, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 2 halloween crabs, snails, 2 wk ago a small Blue Tang and a Cleaner Wrasse (the Wrasse died w/in 24 hrs and I received replacement fish), 1Flame Angel, 1 Valentini Puffer. All fish looked great last night, all eating their frozen Brine shrimp and sea weed, all active etc. The Puffer is not very aggressive, even with my hermit crabs etc but the angel has a tiny mark on a lower fin, probably from bouncing around though. I introduced them w/ 4 times 8 oz water from my tank, the guy at the store said not to use triggeling method or longer smaller additions of water to the bags with fish since the frequent additions cause more stress. The fish looked really healthy for 2 1/2 days, now its hanging off the filter inlet.

 

[TheTodd]

If you have nitrites, its not cycled or going through a mini cycle. You said your parameters have been whatever lately, but what are they now and since you added the angel? How are you testing?

I disagree with the LFS. Drip acclimation or adding very small amounts into the bag at a time allows the fish a chance to acclimate slowly. Making quick changes will stress the fish more, IMO. That could be part if the problem. The nitrates are not doing any of the fish any good either.

 

[TheTodd]

I'm trying to count here...blue tang, flame angel, two clowns, a puffer and a damsel and a variety of shrimp and crabs in a 35g? That seems really overstocked with fish and some (tang and angel) that need to be in a larger tank.

 

[35galSWfish]

Not really, its 2 med clows, 3 small fish and 5 small shrimp. I know that I would have to relocate the small growing fish in 2 or 3 yrs but they are really small for now, everybody getting along, and parameters are not off.

 

[35galSWfish]

Maybe you r right the slower intro may have been better but the guy thought thats how the Wrasse didn't make it. He does the intro at their store (a huge whole sale aquarium store in Chicago) in the way explained, so I thought he knows what to do.
Anything I can do at this time?

 

[Wendy8184]

I have a 39g and its too small for a flame angel...I have a flame and a regal tang in a 150g and sometimes it seems that is too small. A 35g tank should only house 4 or so fish comfortably. Should probably look at nano fish in the future to be more successful. And ALWAYS drip acclimate...Good Luck and don't give up. Also, dont always listen to what lfs guys tell you...my lfs guy is one of my best friends and half the time he's wrong!

 

[TheTodd]

I'm not sure what is causing that in all honesty. If there are no visible signs of illness...white spots, patches, cloudy eyes, etc and everything else in the tank is fine and parameters are fine...how is it today? Same thing? Doing any better?

 

[35galSWfish]

Thanks for the responses,
as expected, the flame angel didn't make it, everybody else is doing great. I will leave it with the 4 fishes I have at this time and later look for another orange addition. I know the flame angels are supposed to be in bigger tank when at full size but this one was very small and they are supposingly slow growers. I was hoping to keep it in this tank for a yr or so and if I like the hobby I am planning to at some point upgrade to a larger tank. Is there any other pretty orange small type of fish that is hardy and that goes well with semiaggressive species like my Clarkii Clowns, Valentini Puffer, and Blue Tang? I have no coral but also no lid (better lighting) so no jumper.
Thanks again!

 

[TheTodd]

Sorry to hear about the angel.

In general, I think that putting fish in a smaller than recommended tank leads to problems. A 15g difference (75 v 90g for example) might not be as bad, but when it starts to get into "I've got a yellow tang in a 35g", its likely not going to work. I'd bet that 80%,or more, of the people that post here with fish troubles are ones that have done that. It may not be scientifically proven, but I think that if a fish is supposed to be in something like a 75g and they are in a tank half that size, the fact that it is small now does not matter to the degree that some people think. It's just a bad idea. That's just my opinion though.

For other orange fish...Flame Hawks are really interesting and I believe are ok in a 35g. There are probably some wrasses with red or orange coloring that might work. I think many are 75g, but seem to recall that there are some that work in around 35-50??? Check out places like liveaquaria.com or bluezoo aquatics.com for fish ideas and tank sizes (and compatibility).

 

[Wendy8184]

I am partial to orange fish also...love the mc cosker flasher but is a jumper. I also have an open tank and i put silver colored egg crate on top. The light still looks like an open top but its harder for them to jump through. However, a couple of weeks ago the top went askew and while i was gone...my flasher jumped. Found him a couple of days later in a bag hanging on the door. Jumped out of tank right into bag. What a shot! Anyway, I'm currently looking for another one. Going to give it one more chance. Maybe some sort of red fish would look good. Maybe a hawkfish or catalina goby?

 

[TheTodd]

Catalina Gobies are beautiful, but they are cold water fish, so the typical temps for other fish are too high. Learned that the hard way several years ago when I bought a couple for a reef tank and they died within a month.

 

[35galSWfish]

Catalina goby looks great but u r right, there is a temp issue. I will lookk for a pic of the hawkfish, thanks!

 

[Wendy8184]

The hawkfish are aggressive, so make sure the fish you have are not peaceful. They will get picked apart. I recently purchased a arc eye hawkfish that the lfs told me was "not aggressive towards other fish in their tanks" and it just about killed my flasher wrasse. Just saying...

 

[TheTodd]

Not all hawks are labeled as aggressive, but arc-eyes are (they are really cool though). Flame and Long nose Hawks are semi aggressive (i think spotted hawks are aggressive too?) so you still stand a chance of getting some aggression in a smaller tank.

 

[FlopNewsom]

I have a flame hawk in a 210 and he has not been a problem. I have shrimp so I try to keep him fed. He loves pellets for bottom feeders.

 

[35galSWfish]

Hmmmhhh... aggressive might not be so good in my tank, the little Blue Tang may suffer. The Clarkii's just calmed down too, they behaved more aggressive when I still had the Undulated Trigger (it came with the tank and killed another fish and had to go to a new home). Will see...

Can you tell me more about pellet food? Why/ when do you need it? I feed 1 cube frozen meat or Brine shrimp every other day and occationally a small piece of sea weed. Is that enough volume and variety?

 

[FlopNewsom]

Sometimes I feed shrimp pellets for bottom feeders for my gobies, shrimp, and flame hawk. They love them. My royal gamma will eat them too.