Help with algae

[Straick85]

I just got over a nice case of GW, to find this algae, that I've never seen before.

Parameters as follows.
55 gallon that's been setup for about 2 months now with moneralized dirt topped by flourite.
Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate will all sit at 0 ppm unless I dose, and I aim for about 5 to 10 ppm nitrate. Phosohate is dosed the same. General hardness is 11 degree, karbonate hardness sits around 5 degree.
Pressurized CO2 injection, about 2bbs, injected with a Sera 500 inline reactor. Drop checker sits at green with 4 dkh solution.
Fertilizer is 5ml flourish trace and iron every other day. 5ml flourish, .5ml aquavitro synthesis (nitrogen) and 1ml aquavitro activate(phosphate) on the other days.
Water changes are 50% once a week(tends to be a Sunday activity).
Filtration is a Fluval 204 with bio media that has been in constant service for over 4 years. The filter baskets are set up with 30ppi foam followed by polishing pads in the bottom basket, the rest of the baskets are full of bio media. The return is through a spray bar to help with circulation. I know the filter is undersized at the moment, but I view the plants as a part of my filtration.
Lighting is a 2 lamp f32t8, with both lamps running at a 4x overdrive. The lamps are both for plants, just can't remember the kelvin rating. Lights are on a 6 hour on, 6 off schedule.
Fish are 6 neon tetras, 8 zebra danios, 2 otto cats, 1 amano shrimp, and a couple random snails.
Plants are anacharis naja (planning to replace, just have to figure out what to replace it with), 2 tropica swords, several anubias nana, dwarf hairgrass, corkscrew vals, and crypt wendtii. There is one sprig of elodea densa on the front glass that I'm trying to propogate to put a couple sprigs around the filter inlet and heater.

What is this algae, and what's it's trigger?

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[Barliman]

Looks similar to the green beard algae I've been battling. Are these photos from low-flow areas of the tank? A nitrate shortage will cause this to show up. I've found hydrogen peroxide very effective in dealing with bad patches of it: dose 2ml in a syringe over the problem spot.

 

[Caliban07]

Looks like a type of hair or fuzz algae. There are many types of filamentous algae like this.

The function of the filter is to provide biological filtration and a very good flow rate. The biological media is important because it reduces ammonia levels which can trigger some types of algae and the flow distributes the nutrients and co2 around the tank but also helps the co2 diffuse across the Pradtl membrane.

See here for details: http://8f0570870ac8-001255.vbulleti...ater-flow-or-just-co2-when-we-consider-things

So yes your filter is underpowered and is likely attributing to poor delivery of co2. The problem is getting the small portion of co2 that actually dissolves to the plants and then helping the plants with gas exchange at the leaf surface. So you may have a yellow drop checker (which doesn't really tell you a lot anyway since we shouldn't trust this method) but is the gas getting to the plants?

I had a 205 on a 46 gallon and had nothing but trouble. But at the same time I believed my 1bps bubble rate was enough to sustain growth. Now I can't even count my bubble rate it's going that fast. So flow. Definitely something to consider upgrading ASAP.

The 6 hours on 6 hours off, could
You explain what you mean by that? The photoperiod should be 1 block of 8 hours max in a 24 hour period. Also does overdriving the T8s increase PAR? This will increase co2 demand.

These types of algae are 95% of the time caused by too much light/not enough co2. The plants can't sustain there mass, they shed leaves and excrete ammonia which results in increased bacterial activity to breakdown the decaying organics which results in more ammonia until the nitrifying Bacteria can catch up, plants don't use the excess ammonia because they are no longer efficient and algae is triggered. Once triggered the algae takes advantage of the high light and excess nutrient levels and just continues to proliferate.

Plant leaves are good sites for algae to grow on and they should be removed ASAP.

If I were you I would up your co2 a touch AND dose a liquid carbon supplement just to see if things improve. You need to remove the algae and do some water changes.

I have just been away for a week and have left my tank in the hands of the soil and liquid carbon.



This is not the tank now it's picture before went. The tank is the same except even healthier looking with more growth. If your light is higher PAR than mine the soil alone may not cut it. I'm at the stage now where I'm just looking for deficiencies. As long as the liquid carbon is going in i should be ok. And so should you be too if you can address these areas


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[Straick85]

I'm slowly upping the co2 now. I guess I'll use fish behavior as an indicator as to too much. I'm also going to up the fertilizer amounts. Dry ferts are on the shopping list as well as a 406.
I doubt that it's a flow issue because it's most prevalent in areas of good flow. When I pulled a lot of anacharis naja out, there wasn't any of this algae in with it, and with how the anacharis grew it creates it's own low flow areas.
I'm using a spray bar to help with getting a better flow across the tank.
Overdriving the lamps does increase par level (my overdrive should be producing about double the output). The 6 hours on, 6 off, has the lights on 4am to 10am, and again 4pm to 10pm. I've always had good results with this lighting schedule in the past (10 gallon with a 36 watt pc lamp).

I did make an interesting discovery while playing find the amano shrimp (I need to get more of them, they're fun little critters), he was sitting there on the back of a piece of driftwood eating this algae quite happily.

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[Caliban07]

I'm slowly upping the co2 now. I guess I'll use fish behavior as an indicator as to too much. I'm also going to up the fertilizer amounts. Dry ferts are on the shopping list as well as a 406.
I doubt that it's a flow issue because it's most prevalent in areas of good flow. When I pulled a lot of anacharis naja out, there wasn't any of this algae in with it, and with how the anacharis grew it creates it's own low flow areas.
I'm using a spray bar to help with getting a better flow across the tank.
Overdriving the lamps does increase par level (my overdrive should be producing about double the output). The 6 hours on, 6 off, has the lights on 4am to 10am, and again 4pm to 10pm. I've always had good results with this lighting schedule in the past (10 gallon with a 36 watt pc lamp).

I did make an interesting discovery while playing find the amano shrimp (I need to get more of them, they're fun little critters), he was sitting there on the back of a piece of driftwood eating this algae quite happily.

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Well I don't thinks it's solely a flow issue, I just think this is attributing to the algae problem. It's not that the algae is growing in high or low flow areas it's the fact that the plants are having a hard time obtaining enough co2. That's the flow issue. Algae subsides when plants are healthy.

It's good that you are turning the co2 up. Dry ferts are an excellent purchase and the 406 is a filter I was looking to buy but ended up with the JBL 1501e. These changes should help.

I'm not a fan of the lighting schedule. 1 lot of 6-10 hours is ample in my opinion but if you have had good results then by all means...

Yeah plants like anacharis are just aquatic weeds that can easily outcompete other slow growing species.

I had to pull this out of my tank this week as it was killing certain plants in my tank.



Let us know how you get on. Good luck.


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[Straick85]

Co2 was low. Turned out the drop checker had a thin film of algae on it, making me thinkg all was good, when in reality is wasn't. Never even noticed the algae with the water, but it stood out like a sore thumb once the water was removed for a weekly pwc.

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[trkchezz]

Following

 

[Caliban07]

Co2 was low. Turned out the drop checker had a thin film of algae on it, making me thinkg all was good, when in reality is wasn't. Never even noticed the algae with the water, but it stood out like a sore thumb once the water was removed for a weekly pwc.

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Yeah that happened to me. Eventually you won't need the drop checker. You will know by looking at your plants if you have enough co2.


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[Straick85]

Upped the co2 a little too much. Came in and fish were all sitting near the surface. Turned it down a little, and added an airstone for a few minutes to off gas some of it. They're already back to normal, and the drop checker was lime green. Guess it's too slow on the reaction compared to the reactor and the fish.

The water is crystal clear, and that new algae doesn't seem to be soreading yet. We'll see what happens.

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[Caliban07]

Upped the co2 a little too much. Came in and fish were all sitting near the surface. Turned it down a little, and added an airstone for a few minutes to off gas some of it. They're already back to normal, and the drop checker was lime green. Guess it's too slow on the reaction compared to the reactor and the fish.

The water is crystal clear, and that new algae doesn't seem to be soreading yet. We'll see what happens.

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Nice catch on the fish. Yeah another reason drop checkers can cause reading issues. I'll bet my bottom dollar once you have the co2 under control you will have little issues with this tank.


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[Straick85]

Fish are all doing well. I also uppes the ferts to act more like EI with what I have. Ironically, everyone looks to be pearling now, even my anubias nanas. Even the algae on the back wall(don't have any issue with it there) has bubbles forming on it.

I'll give it more time and see what that other algae does. If it doesn't spread (or better, shrinks) and the plants and fish do well, I'll keep fertilizing this way.

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[Caliban07]

Fish are all doing well. I also uppes the ferts to act more like EI with what I have. Ironically, everyone looks to be pearling now, even my anubias nanas. Even the algae on the back wall(don't have any issue with it there) has bubbles forming on it.

I'll give it more time and see what that other algae does. If it doesn't spread (or better, shrinks) and the plants and fish do well, I'll keep fertilizing this way.

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Good stuff. Glad you have found the balance. Give it a couple of weeks like this and things should take off. Make sure you adjust your co2 accordingly as plant mass becomes denser or trim regularly.

What would you say the key was to get to the stage you are at now?


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[Straick85]

Where I'm at now?
A bit of luck, combined with upping co2(about double what it was) and ferts to match lighting (those od t8's produce more light than I thought). Still figuring out fert levels to prevent shortages.
So far fish and the one amano shrimp are all doing fine.

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