How is my cycle going?

[whiddett]

Hi Guys/Girls. I got my new 55-60g tank on 15 May and so it will have been running for 4 weeks tomorrow. It is a Juwel Vision 260 with the curved front and it has a gravel substrate with a large 2 part ship wreck ornament and a few plants. The fish I have in it so far are 3 leopard Danios and 2 White Cloud Mountain minows that I transferred from my old tank to get the cycle started. Also 2 Denison 'Torpedo' Barbs (about 4 inches) transferred a bit later from my old tank as they are my favourite fish and were being bullied by a red taled shark. And finally a Pim Pictus cat fish (about 3 inches) added recently that I just could not wait any longer to get.
I've been using API stress coat and stress zyme as directed.

Anyway, I've been using test strips to keep a check on my water but having been told they are unreliable I ordered the API Fresh Water master test kit which arrived today. The results of my tests were:
PH 8.0 (I live in a very hard water area)
Ammonia 1.0ppm (is this enough to worry about?)
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

So I'm slightly concerned about the ammonia but Nitrite looks great and the fact Im showing some Nitrate looks very promising. I havent yet tested my tap water for Nitrate with the API kit but test strips were showing zero. I think this is looking pretty good but would appreciate anyone elses thoughts, comments, concerns or suggestions at this stage.
I know the PH is high but the general concensus on here is that stable PH is more important than neutral PH so I'm leaning toward staying away from the PH Minus type treatments and sticking with my Tap Water PH. One of the larger LFS in my area says they just use standard tap water on all their stock so it cant be so bad I guess....and if I buy fish there they are not going to get a major PH change when they come home with me.

Thanks
Steve

 

[rich311k]

Ammonia over .5ppm is something to worry about. Try to keep it as low as possible. I would say it is time for a water change.

 

[whiddett]

OK things arent looking quite so good now. I just tested my tap water for Nitrate and its reading at least 10ppm and actually looks a bit higher than what my tank water is measuring! I have got brown algae growing on alot of surfaces. Maybe that has consumed some Nitrate???
OK, so if the Ammonia is enough to worry about should I do water changes or should I go for an Ammonia removal product like Ammo-lock? And if I did that wouldn't it have a negative effect on my cycle as the ammonia wont then get converted to Nitrite.
Another option I have is to move some filter media from my 125 litre tank to the 260 litre tank. The sponges are smaller but should have a positive effect none the less? What are the expert recommendations? Also, if I transferred filter media, how long should it take for the Ammonia levels to be effected?
Thanks

 

[rich311k]

Water changes will only marginally slow the cycle down. There is free ammonia and not enough bacteria, there will be after the water change as well. Change the water the fish are the most important thing here. By all means move some filter media over. Put a stocking full of gravel from the old tank as well.

 

[CatatonicBug]

Don't waste your money on the Ammo-lock stuff. It does not do anything but drain your wallet. Avoid all chemical additives except a good dechlorinator. If you have any ammonia in your tank, the cycle is not complete. The bio-filtration should be able to keep all the ammonia at zero. As for the Nitrates in the tap water, it's not unusual. Just keep an eye on the level in the tank, and do PWCs as needed to keep it down below 20ppm. Remember to do all the necessary shaking with the API Nitrate test bottles. Follow the instructions implicitly, or the results will not be accurate.

 

[whiddett]

Just to give you more info I run the standard Juwel filtration system on both of my aquariums. This consists of a white wool filter, then a carbon sponge, a green nitrate removal sponge, a course blue sponge, and finally 2 fine blue sponges.
I have now moved one of the fine blue sponges from my smaller tank into the new bigger one. So hopefully that will soon start helping. Should I worry about my smaller tank not having enough filtration now though? I have tested the small tank which shows, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 40ppm Nitrate so that seems all well.
I can do water changes on the new tank but if I do so, how much should I change? One problem I have is that this Friday I am off to Vegas for 10 days and wont be able to do anything. My wife will be home to feed the fish but she wouldnt be able to cope with a water change. Bearing this in mind, should I go for an Ammonia removal product and overdose it to cope with any ammonia produced while I'm away? I could use a bit more detailed advice please if anyone can help.

 

[CatatonicBug]

I would replace whatever you removed from the small tank (fine blue sponges) with new filter media. The bactieria will then re-grow on the new media.

 

[MisticX]

you have done 2 positive things that will accelerate your cycle

1. you inserted some media from the old tank
2. you did a PWC

what i suggest is
buy one more sponge filter and put it in the old tank,
take one of the old tank's sponges and put it in the new tank
stop the filtration
do a pwc, use the tap-water dechlorinater, wait 30 mins
restart the filtration (you avoid getting bacterias killed by the Cl)

monitor the stats of your tank, and WRITE DOWN RESULTS.
do this every 12 hours, or 24 hrs if not possible 12.

SIDE tips
lower the amount of food you are feeding them,
increase the water agitation (air stone)

GL with the cycle.

 

[MisticX]

i forgot...

of course, the sponge swap is needed only in the beginning, once your cycle is in place, you can put back the old sponge in the old tank.

what i personaly do, is run my filters at all times with 2 sponges, when me or a friend wants to start a new tank (temporarily as a QT, or permanently) i "sell" him the 2nd sponge and immediately replace it with a new one.

bacterias rate of growth is 100% every 12 hours, which means the new media (sponge) is filled with enough bacterias in half a day ... which usually is not such a long time.


one BIG warning sign though, when you do that, you also inherit all the old tanks diseases (ich parasites fungus ...)


last week i started a new tank for a friend, and i only had ammonia in the first 12 hours of the cycle.
and honestly the bioload he chose is HUGE (over 40 fish) and the amount of food he feeds them is even HUGER (about double what i feed mines)

 

[Purrbox]

Very normal to have some Nitrate in your tap water. This is why the sign of a cycled aquarium is 0 Ammonia and Nitrite with rising Nitrates. Also once there are Nitrites present in the aquarium, they can mess with the Nitrate kit results depending on how it measures Nitrates.

I'd recommend using Amquel+ or Prime for you dechlorinator and ditching the rest of the chemicals. Both Amquel+ and Prime are good dechlorinators that can be dosed extra to deal with high levels of Ammonia and Nitrite. Prime is a bit more economical since it is more concentrated.

 

[whiddett]

Hi. I have not done a PWC yet. I was asking how much to change? But what I have now also done is put a stocking full of gravel from the old tank into the new tank, plus transferred an ornament and a couple of small plants.
Do you think I'm likely to see a change in Ammonia levels very soon with these actions? My biggest concern now is what to do regarding my holiday thats coming soon. CB says not to bother with Ammo-Lock but do I have much choice seeing as I will be unable to monitor the water for 10 days?

 

[CatatonicBug]

The Ammo-lock does not do anything. You might as well be adding expensive water to your tank. It's simply a waste. A PWC of 20-40% would not hurt. Just be sure to closely match the temperature and add the dechlorinator to the tank as you are adding the new water.

As for the holiday, all you can do is a PWC right before you go and hope for the best. It does not sound like you are looking at really horrible conditions, so I wouldn't be horribly concerned about it.

 

[whiddett]

What you say MisticX is very interesting. If I understand correctly are you saying that by putting old filter media into a new tank you can immediately fully stock it and basically avoid a cycle all together? If that is correct would you expect that having transferred an old sponge and a stocking full of gravel to my new tank I should notice almost magical results on my Ammonia levels with the next 48 hours? Or have I interpretted your comments all wrong?
I also noticed that the front on the Stress Coat bottle says that it removes Ammonia from tap water as well as the chlorines. Presumably that means it would remove ammonia from the tank too? Although I believe it may just convert it to harmless Ammonium which will still register on the API test kit Ammonia test?
On the positive side my 2 Denison Barbs so appear much happier and more colourful in the new tank than they did in the old tank where I am sure the Red Tailed Shark was stressing them out by chasing them. Their red stripe is much brighter now than it was and they like to swim in and out of the ship wreck . I'm more concerned about the Pim Pictus Catfish if anything as I am sure he would be the first to suffer from bad water conditions and I really wouldn't want to lose him. I thought his stomach was possibly a bit enlarged the other day but he seems happy enough today, albeit quite shy.

 

[whiddett]

The Ammo-lock does not do anything. You might as well be adding expensive water to your tank. It's simply a waste. A PWC of 20-40% would not hurt. Just be sure to closely match the temperature and add the dechlorinator to the tank as you are adding the new water.

As for the holiday, all you can do is a PWC right before you go and hope for the best. It does not sound like you are looking at really horrible conditions, so I wouldn't be horribly concerned about it.

Hi CatatonicBug. I am not doubting what you say but I'm interested to know what makes you say the ammo-lock does nothing? Surely API could be sued if their product does not do what it says? I have heard that this type of product converts Ammonia to Ammonium and still shows up on Ammonia tests and so I wondered if that is your experience and hence why you think it does nothing? Or maybe you have some better explanation? Thanks.

 

[CatatonicBug]

What MysticX says about the "instant cycle" is true. If you add cycled filter media to a new filter, the bacteria will very quickly transfer over and you will not see the normal cycle. This is assuming you have food for the bacteria to consume in the new tank.

This is where the Ammo-lock problem comes in. The bacteria need the ammonia to eat, and by using Ammo-lock, you are in essence fouling their food. As a general rule, everyone here will tell you that it is always best to solve the cause of the problem rather than the symptoms. The ammo-lock is temporarily reducing a symptom, not fixing the problem. Ammonia is produced constantly in the tank, and so if you treat it, the only thing that gets treated is the currently existing ammonia. The new stuff that appears in a few hours will not be treated.

As long as you moved the media over, I would say your tank will be set for your holiday.

 

[whiddett]

OK cool that sounds good. I hope you are right.
As far as the Ammo-lock though, my understanding is that it converts Ammonia to Ammonium which is harmless but that the Ammonia consuming bacteria will still feed on the Ammonium. I'd rather not use these products at all as like you say they are just are sticky plaster solution and very expensive. So hopefully the bacteria that I had sitting in my other tank all along will quickly and cheaply solve the problem.

 

[whiddett]

Another question - does anyone know how long the bacteria can survive without food? The reason I ask is that my test showed zero Nitrite. So having added an established sponge to the system, could the Nitrite converting bacteria die before the ammonia is converted to Nitrite? And if the Ammonia gets consumed quickly and my low stocked tank does not produce much new ammonia, could those bacteria die too?

 

[Purrbox]

You will probably see a reduction in the amount of bacteria, to the level of fish that you currently have. Depending on how well you seeding the aquarium, you'll either see an instant cycle, or a shortened cycle. Not at all unusual for it to be shortened to two weeks or less with the amount it sounds like you've added. Obviously since there will be some die back in the bacteria, you'll need to increase stocking slowly once the cycle is finished to give the biofilter time to catch up with the increased bioload.

 

[whiddett]

I tested again yesterday and today. Yesterday I thought the Ammonia was still about 1ppm or maybe just under going by the colour chart. But today I think my Ammonia level has dropped now closer to 0.5ppm. I'm still not reading any Nitrite and the Nitrate has not increased significantly if at all - still reading about 10ppm.

 

[whiddett]

Since my last post I have continued testing my water as follows but the results seem a little odd to me. The first set of results were PH 8, Ammonia 1ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10ppm. I then added some seed material from my old tank as I was concerned about the ammonia and wanted to speed up the cycle. 2 days later the ammonia had dropped to around 0.5ppm. Everything else stayed the same. I was then away for 10 days and tested again on 24 June and found nothing had changed again. The ammonia had possibly dropped from the high side of 0.5ppm to the low side of 0.5ppm. I then tested again yesterday and got PH 8, Ammonia 1ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10ppm again. It seems odd to me that I am yet to see any Nitrites or increase in Nitrates. Is this normal? The tank has been up and running since 15 May and has 8 fish in there.