How safe is shop bought live food?

[Tanktop]

I've been reading up on live foods for my small community freshwater tank - glowlight and neon tetras essentially. Everywhere says how good it is to feed them daphnia, bloodworms, blood shrimps etc, but every website also adds the warning that they can introduce disease. I'm in the process of quarantining some neons and would be really annoyed if disease gets in anyway.
The point of this is how much of a risk is it really. Does anyone have any experience of disease getting in this way?
I have been buying prepackaged food from a large chain in the UK and would be surprised if they hadn't mastered sterile cultivation, but also bought from an independent shop and I think they bred and packaged in-house.
Any thoughts?

 

[Fishguy2727]

There are many problems with live foods, and the introduction of pathogens is probably number one on the list. Any live food can introduce a variety of pathogens to the tank that could cause major problems for your fish.

One other major issue is their lack of nutrition. Live foods are not even close to nutritionally complete or balanced, most offer little more than protein.

They also increase aggression. Although this would not be a major issue for your community fish, there is a big difference between predatory fish that are fed live foods and ones that are only ever fed pellets.

There is very rarely any real need for them. People like to feed them because they think they are more 'natural', when really almost every live food fed to fish would never be in their natural diet, making them just as unnatural as pellets. In addition, very few fish require live foods, almost all will take to pellets. Triggering breeding is another use of live foods, but even then most fish can breed when fed high quality pellets alone, or at the most including some frozen food to actually trigger breeding.

With the development of Golden Pearls, even raising fish fry doesn't necessarily require live foods anymore.

A high quality pellet is a much better option for fish nutrition. I only use and recommend New Life Spectrum, with very few exceptions. Stick with this and you won't have to worry about their nutrition anymore.

 

[BillD]

While there is a lot lot of logic and truth in the above post, and there are many quality foods available I would disagree with a few of the comments. Live foods that come from fishless waters are not likely to harbor pathogens, particularly parasites. Most types of wild live foods (daphnia, blood worms, mosquito larvae) will come from waters that contain no fish, for obvious reasons; waters that have fish in them, won't have any meaningful quantities of live foods to collect.
When Ian Fuller, noted cory authority was over here from the UK to do a presentation for CAOC, he was very much a proponent of live food instead of manufactured foods. He was clearly not impressed with what food manufacturers offered. my own personal experience with feeding live food goes back 50 years, and continues to the present. I grow vast quantities of daphnia on the winter cover for my pool every spring. I have done this since the spring of 1995. For a period of about 6 weeks, all of my fish regardless of type or size will have live food in front of them 24/7. Mostly daphnia but also bloodworms, mosquito larvae and assorted other aquatic insect larvae. the growth rate in young fish is significantly better than with prepared foods. The reason is the sheer quantity, as live foods are about 90% water. They will also contain whatever they have eaten, which in the case of daphnia would be microrganisms and algae. Foods such as daphnia, which have an external shell, provide bulk which keeps the fish's digestive tract clean, so there is no concern about over feeding, and the "food" doesn't spoil until it dies. There is one live food I wouldn't feed under any circumstance, and that would be live tubifex. They come from very dirty places and can be full of all sorts of nasties.
As far as feeding newly hatched fry, most will do better on live BBS than golden pearls and decapsulated brine shrimp cysts, as some will die before they get the idea of eating something not alive. That is my experience, while others claim great success, and swear by them.
So, while live food isn't necessary, it should do no harm, and there are many forms which can be propogated at home where you can be assured they are safe, such as red worms, white worms, grindal worms, microworms, and daphnia. Whether you want to bother is another issue.

 

[Tanktop]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply in such detail. I had not considered the increase in aggression but as you say probably don't need to worry about that with small community fish. I plan to use them as part of the fish diet as well as flake, shrimp pellets and veggies (there are Otos and shrimp in there too) and feel reassured that the large chain producer is most likely ok. Think I might start a daphnia culture tank though.

 

[TigerBarbs]

I agree with fishguy. Theres no need for them. Unless you cant get a new fish on pellets or other foods right away but thats very rare. And they definitely icrease aggression. I dont think once every few months would hurt though as long as they are quarantined for a week or so at least.

 

[jetajockey]

While there is a lot lot of logic and truth in the above post, and there are many quality foods available I would disagree with a few of the comments. Live foods that come from fishless waters are not likely to harbor pathogens, particularly parasites. Most types of wild live foods (daphnia, blood worms, mosquito larvae) will come from waters that contain no fish, for obvious reasons; waters that have fish in them, won't have any meaningful quantities of live foods to collect.
When Ian Fuller, noted cory authority was over here from the UK to do a presentation for CAOC, he was very much a proponent of live food instead of manufactured foods. He was clearly not impressed with what food manufacturers offered. my own personal experience with feeding live food goes back 50 years, and continues to the present. I grow vast quantities of daphnia on the winter cover for my pool every spring. I have done this since the spring of 1995. For a period of about 6 weeks, all of my fish regardless of type or size will have live food in front of them 24/7. Mostly daphnia but also bloodworms, mosquito larvae and assorted other aquatic insect larvae. the growth rate in young fish is significantly better than with prepared foods. The reason is the sheer quantity, as live foods are about 90% water. They will also contain whatever they have eaten, which in the case of daphnia would be microrganisms and algae. Foods such as daphnia, which have an external shell, provide bulk which keeps the fish's digestive tract clean, so there is no concern about over feeding, and the "food" doesn't spoil until it dies. There is one live food I wouldn't feed under any circumstance, and that would be live tubifex. They come from very dirty places and can be full of all sorts of nasties.
As far as feeding newly hatched fry, most will do better on live BBS than golden pearls and decapsulated brine shrimp cysts, as some will die before they get the idea of eating something not alive. That is my experience, while others claim great success, and swear by them.
So, while live food isn't necessary, it should do no harm, and there are many forms which can be propogated at home where you can be assured they are safe, such as red worms, white worms, grindal worms, microworms, and daphnia. Whether you want to bother is another issue.

Just wanted to say this is a great post, and I understand completely where you are coming from. Raising fry is a prime example where live foods are far superior to processed. Sure, a pellet or flake could have the perfect balance of everything in it, but since when is anything perfectly balanced? I don't even know a single person who eats a perfectly balanced diet, yet we are supposed to force our fish to? Fish probably don't care about a varied diet, but their behavior when eating various foods sure shows that they act differently given different food choices.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for high quality staple foods, but I also incorporate live/thawed food as well, and enhanced breeding activity as well as getting some finicky/WC fish to get their appetite going again are just a few of the examples of why I choose to include them.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Using them as needed is one thing, but as out foods get better and better, our need for live (and frozen) foods decreases. If there was an ideal food for people, I would love to have it. I am not saying that I would stick to it 100%, but I would know it was healthy. But comparing our diet to that of fish is flawed at best. We have become accustomed to the most varied diet this planet has ever seen. Comparing that to fish is inaccurate. Their nutrition should be our highest priority. Kids may want a variety of junk food for dinner every night, but that is not what I am going to feed them. They need proper nutrition.

NLS has proven to be the most well balanced and complete diet when captive bred mandarins are raised on it exclusively, a variety of marine fish with a variety of natural diets thrive on it exclusively for over a decade, and on and on. It has achieved things that even the most varied, 'natural', etc. diets haven't.

 

[siva]

I've been reading up on live foods for my small community freshwater tank - glowlight and neon tetras essentially. Everywhere says how good it is to feed them daphnia, bloodworms, blood shrimps etc, but every website also adds the warning that they can introduce disease. I'm in the process of quarantining some neons and would be really annoyed if disease gets in anyway.
The point of this is how much of a risk is it really. Does anyone have any experience of disease getting in this way?
I have been buying prepackaged food from a large chain in the UK and would be surprised if they hadn't mastered sterile cultivation, but also bought from an independent shop and I think they bred and packaged in-house.
Any thoughts?

I would recommend culturing your own at home instead of buying from the shop, to be on the safe side.