How to treat ich outbreak.

[FreedomLantern]

Hello! About a week ago, I bought a pair of Blue Moscow guppies and an Otocinclus catifsh, and added them to my established 3 gallon tank. The tank already had 3 healthy guppies.

Because one of my old guppies was pregnant, and I wasn't sure when the blue Moscow was going to give birth, I foolishly put both in the birther two days ago. Today I was looking at them and could see that both fish had ich and clamped fins, with the new Blue Moscow to a greater degree. So I released both of them back into the tank today. I think the stress caused it to break out on them worse, but I see now that some of the other fish have it also.

Currently the tank has 8 fish: 7 guppies and the catfish. I know this is too many for such a small tank, when this is over I'll take some out and put them in my other tank. It was my intention to do so earlier, but I obviously can't now since this tank has parasites.

On hand for medicines are Cupramine and formalin. I also have aquarium salt which I've been adding as a standard to my tank anyway, so I don't think that will help much. My heater is preset so I can't raise the temperature to 86 degrees like some sites recommend.

My question is, should I use Cupramine or formalin, and what would the dosing be? I've read that catfish can be more sensitive to some treatments, so I want to be cautious here. Yesterday I performed a 50% water change, and a 50% water change a week ago when I added the fish.

I also bought a bunch of frogbit with the fish, could that be a carrier of ich? While I think it's the fish, it could be a possibility.

Thanks in advance for feedback.

 

[libertybelle]

The fish were more likely the carriers though it’s possible for water or plants to carry it too. Either way it’s going to be very tough to treat in an overstocked tiny tank like that.

The oto has even more problems. As a schooling fish alone and in that small a tank it will be stressed and difficult for it to find enough food which will make this all the harder. If the oto makes it will he be getting a larger tank and buddies because he probably won’t last long without them.

Do you have water tests because you doubled your fish load and are probably mini cycling. Step one for ich is always pristine water and gravel vac.

 

[FreedomLantern]

Thank you for your reply. After this is over, I may consider giving the oto a larger tank, though the reason I got him was because my small tank had a lot of algae. The person at the fish store said he would be okay in a small aquarium.

By the way, I read that otos shouldn't be kept by themselves (after I had already purchased him), but I'm not sure why? He has plenty of food and seems to be doing very well right now, despite the ich outbreak my guppies have.

I have test strips, but I change the water so frequently I am somewhat doubtful they would show anything. The tank is bare bottom, and I suction the poop out at least every other day.

My formalin formed paraformaldehyde (white precipitate on the bottom of the bottle and suspended), so I decided to get Ich-x. It'll be here in 3 days. Since I'm going to be changing some of the water so often, what would be an appropriate water conditioner to use? Currently I have prime, but Ich-x warns not to use sulfinate- or sulfoxylate- water conditioners...

 

[FreedomLantern]

One more question, what should I use for filtration? Currently I have a tetra Whisper 4i, I'm concerned that will remove the Ich-x.

 

[libertybelle]

Those strips often don’t even test for ammonia. And are of questionable accuracy for everything else. You really need to get liquid tests for ammonia and nitrite at a minimum. I strongly suspect you will find you are mini cycling.

Otos are schooling fish with very specialized food. Yes they will eat the brown algae common in new / unstable tanks but for long turn survival they need an established tank large enough that they can search out and find enough biofilm etc to survive. That’s highly unlikely in a three gallon and many of them never learn to eat prepared foods. A schooling fish won’t instantly die because it’s kept alone. It will however be stressed and more prone to hiding and illness. If you want something for algae cleaning in such a small tank after this get a nerite. They eat algae like champs, wont reproduce in fresh water, you can have one or a couple and as long as water quality is good the small tank size won’t bother them. And they’ll eat just about anything if you need to supplement.

Ich x should not be used with prime apparently. You’ll have to do some research about what water conditioners work because I’ve never used ich x. Or go with a treatment compatible with prime like paraguard. If you are minicycling one of the main things that will help is water changes with prime to lock up any remaining ammonia /nitrite; so keep that in mind.

you can throw all the medication you want at the problem but if your fish are stressed and cramped, with poor water quality you’re not going to beat the ich. Goal one needs to be to ensure your water is pristine. That will lower fish stress levels and let their immune system help you out.

In such a small tank you probably have one of those internal cartridge type filters right? Those are a pain because every time they fall apart and need to be replaced you’re going to mini cycle again. Generally with medications you need to take out the carbon. for you it probably means cutting the cartridge and removing any black carbon from inside. But don’t remove the whole cartridge or you will have more water quality problems. Honestly if you haven’t changed the cartridge in the last week it’s probably exhausted anyway and won’t absorb the medicine. Those cartridges usually have a laughable amount of carbon anyway. I would just leave it so you don’t disrupt your bio filter any more.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello Free...

The ich parasite infects fish that are generally stressed due to poor water conditions. If you have tank issues, they're likely due to a poor water chemistry. Since water makes up the majority of the tank, it makes sense to start there. You just need to clean up the water and keep it clean. Start by changing out half the water every few days and add a couple of teaspoons of aquarium salt to every five gallons of treated tap water. Do a good job of vacuuming the bottom material every time you change the water. Don't raise the water temperature. It does shorten the life of the parasite, but it will do the same to your fish. Heat raises the fishes' metabolism and they'll poop more. Not what you want if you're trying to clean up the water. Heat also damages aquatic plants. Heat does more harm than good. Reduce the food to a little every couple of days and feed some Spirulina and some organic minced garlic. These foods are high nutrient and good for digestion. Follow these steps until you see improvement in your fish.

Above all, don't put chemicals into the tank. Different fish react differently to chemicals. It's best to leave them out of this treatment.

B

 

[FreedomLantern]

Those strips often don’t even test for ammonia. And are of questionable accuracy for everything else. You really need to get liquid tests for ammonia and nitrite at a minimum. I strongly suspect you will find you are mini cycling.

Otos are schooling fish with very specialized food. Yes they will eat the brown algae common in new / unstable tanks but for long turn survival they need an established tank large enough that they can search out and find enough biofilm etc to survive. That’s highly unlikely in a three gallon and many of them never learn to eat prepared foods. A schooling fish won’t instantly die because it’s kept alone. It will however be stressed and more prone to hiding and illness. If you want something for algae cleaning in such a small tank after this get a nerite. They eat algae like champs, wont reproduce in fresh water, you can have one or a couple and as long as water quality is good the small tank size won’t bother them. And they’ll eat just about anything if you need to supplement.

Ich x should not be used with prime apparently. You’ll have to do some research about what water conditioners work because I’ve never used ich x. Or go with a treatment compatible with prime like paraguard. If you are minicycling one of the main things that will help is water changes with prime to lock up any remaining ammonia /nitrite; so keep that in mind.

you can throw all the medication you want at the problem but if your fish are stressed and cramped, with poor water quality you’re not going to beat the ich. Goal one needs to be to ensure your water is pristine. That will lower fish stress levels and let their immune system help you out.

In such a small tank you probably have one of those internal cartridge type filters right? Those are a pain because every time they fall apart and need to be replaced you’re going to mini cycle again. Generally with medications you need to take out the carbon. for you it probably means cutting the cartridge and removing any black carbon from inside. But don’t remove the whole cartridge or you will have more water quality problems. Honestly if you haven’t changed the cartridge in the last week it’s probably exhausted anyway and won’t absorb the medicine. Those cartridges usually have a laughable amount of carbon anyway. I would just leave it so you don’t disrupt your bio filter any more.

Okay, I agree that the liquid test kits are likely going to be of use in the future. Definitely going to look into getting some. Sorry if this is a rather silly question, but can you clarify what mini-cycling means? You seem to be using it in a negative way.

Sure, I'll see about the nerites after this is done.

Yes, I saw that prime doesn't work with ich-x, that's why I asked. The only thing I could find about ich-x and water conditioners was one review on Amazon saying that Tetra aqua safe does work with ich-x with no problems. Not much to go on.

The fish seem much better today. In fact, on the most heavily spotted fish, it's down to just a few, and on the ones that had one or two, they are gone completely.

Yes, I have an internal cartridge filters. Why a pain? I'm actually very satisfied with it, not falling apart at all. I'm rather unsure of what you're trying to say, can you be more specific? What would you recommend to use instead?

Sorry, just changed the cartridge. When I start medicating I'll take the carbon out. Siphoned the bottom twice today.

 

[FreedomLantern]

Hello Free...

The ich parasite infects fish that are generally stressed due to poor water conditions. If you have tank issues, they're likely due to a poor water chemistry. Since water makes up the majority of the tank, it makes sense to start there. You just need to clean up the water and keep it clean. Start by changing out half the water every few days and add a couple of teaspoons of aquarium salt to every five gallons of treated tap water. Do a good job of vacuuming the bottom material every time you change the water. Don't raise the water temperature. It does shorten the life of the parasite, but it will do the same to your fish. Heat raises the fishes' metabolism and they'll poop more. Not what you want if you're trying to clean up the water. Heat also damages aquatic plants. Heat does more harm than good. Reduce the food to a little every couple of days and feed some Spirulina and some organic minced garlic. These foods are high nutrient and good for digestion. Follow these steps until you see improvement in your fish.

Above all, don't put chemicals into the tank. Different fish react differently to chemicals. It's best to leave them out of this treatment.

B

I'm doing the salt right now before the medication shows up. Siphoning the bottom daily. I've read good reviews about ich-x, so I think if this is still persisting by the time it shows up, I'm going to go ahead and treat.

 

[libertybelle]

Mini cycling is when you increase the fish load (ammonia production) on your tank faster than your bacteria can keep up. This results in toxic ammonia and nitrite which cause illness and death.

You increased your fish load AND took away the bulk of the bacteria consuming the ammonia they produced at once. The problem with those small cartridge based filters is you can’t rinse and reuse them because they start to fall apart and when you do replace them you send your tank into a mini cycle.

Honestly the alternative is a bigger filter with reusable bio media which means a bigger tank. Tiny tanks are inherently unstable and that’s what allows these kind of disease outbreaks.

If you want to keep these fish alive you really need to do some reading on cycling and fish-in cycling which is basically what you are doing since you replaced the cartridge. And the ammonia / nitrite tests are needed ASAP. You need to know how much toxic stuff is in there with your fish in order to appropriately respond.

Here is some information that should help!: http://https://www.aquariumadvice.com/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium/ and http://http://www.aquariumadvice.com/i-just-learned-about-cycling-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now/