Hygro dificiency please help

[sallyjano]

I have a couple of different hygros which seem to have a deficiency of some sort but I'm not sure what. Some leaves are curling up, others are getting brown spots which expand and turn into holes. It seems to mostly be the older leaves. The new ones look fine. I will post a photo shortly.

Can anyone help? Here's all my info:

Tank: 60g long

Lights: 2x54w T5HO, 2x17w regular fluorescent (ones that came with the tank). On for approx 8-9 hours a day.

Ferts/glut: Flourish Comp twice a week. Excel twice a week. Flourish Potassium Twice a week.

Feeding: quality flake, shrimp pellets, algae wafers, freeze dried blood worms, fresh veggies when I have time.

 

[sallyjano]

I found this on another thread: 65a7e663.jpg Photo by lauraleellbp | Photobucket

This leads me to believe the brown holes are a potassium deficiency (as I thought) but I did start adding potassium twice a week. Maybe just not enough? Or could it be anything else?

Those leaves curling - this chart says it's calcium but I'm already adding Flourish Comp twice a week as opposed to the once a week that the label suggests so why would it be calcium?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Hygro

Hello Sal...

This plant is said to grow in low light. I tried lower light and Hygro doesn't grow or grows so slowly, that other plants take over its area of the tank. You need to provide good light. It doesn't need high end fertilizer, Seachem's comprehensive alone will be enough and dosed only when you change the tank water. Actually, it will grow fine without added nutrients of any kind. If you have a good number of fish in the tank that will likely be enough ferts. This one is a pretty efficient user of nitrates.

B

 

[sallyjano]

Hello Sal...

This plant is said to grow in low light. I tried lower light and Hygro doesn't grow or grows so slowly, that other plants take over its area of the tank. You need to provide good light. It doesn't need high end fertilizer, Seachem's comprehensive alone will be enough and dosed only when you change the tank water. Actually, it will grow fine without added nutrients of any kind. If you have a good number of fish in the tank that will likely be enough ferts. This one is a pretty efficient user of nitrates.

B

Thanks for your input. I have 2.3 wpg - isn't that enough? The thing is though it has actually been growing really well. This is the one plant in my tank which is growing the fastest - about an inch or so a week which seems reasonable to me?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Hygro

Hello again sal...

Your lighting is fine. You could likely save quite a bit by backing off the fertilizers. It's possible to put too many nutrients into the water. If the plants can't use them all, your tank water could have chemistry problems.

B

 

[sallyjano]

Hello again sal...

Your lighting is fine. You could likely save quite a bit by backing off the fertilizers. It's possible to put too many nutrients into the water. If the plants can't use them all, your tank water could have chemistry problems.

B

So you think the brown spots and curling leaves could be too much ferts rather than a deficiency?

 

[aqua_chem]

Can you post pictures of the affected plant?

 

[sallyjano]

So I am thinking either:

A deficiency?
Too much of something?
Fluctuating co2?

FYI added problem. I am now seeing some of the dreaded BBA.

 

[sallyjano]

Here's a closer look at some I trimmed. Ones in the middle have BBA on the edges.

 

[Rivercats]

You don't want to cut down on the amount of ferts your adding. Small pin holes that slowly enlarge are usually a sign of potassium deficiency. If new leaves don't develop small holes then your adding enough potassium. Do you know your nitrate, phosphate, gh and kh? A kh and gh of 4 or above is good for planted tanks indicating your have enough calcium and magnesium for plants. Phosphates should be 1-3ppm and nitrates from 10-20ppm.

You have a good medium light and depending on how much hydro and other plants you have you may need to go to using dry ferts which are much cheaper to use. Hydro can grow very quickly in good light which means it's going to use more nutrients. If you use Excel you should use it daily at a rate of 1ml for every 5 gallons and can even use 1ml for every 2 gallons after you build up to that level. Since liquid carbons dissipate out of solution in 12-24 hours you should use them daily. Liquid carbons help increase growth and photosynthesis which in turn increases the need for fertilizers.

 

[sallyjano]

You don't want to cut down on the amount of ferts your adding. Small pin holes that slowly enlarge are usually a sign of potassium deficiency. If new leaves don't develop small holes then your adding enough potassium. Do you know your nitrate, phosphate, gh and kh? A kh and gh of 4 or above is good for planted tanks indicating your have enough calcium and magnesium for plants. Phosphates should be 1-3ppm and nitrates from 10-20ppm.

You have a good medium light and depending on how much hydro and other plants you have you may need to go to using dry ferts which are much cheaper to use. Hydro can grow very quickly in good light which means it's going to use more nutrients. If you use Excel you should use it daily at a rate of 1ml for every 5 gallons and can even use 1ml for every 2 gallons after you build up to that level. Since liquid carbons dissipate out of solution in 12-24 hours you should use them daily. Liquid carbons help increase growth and photosynthesis which in turn increases the need for fertilizers.

Thanks for the input Rivercats. LOTS of questions for you!

Yes I read potassium deficiency so started adding it twice a week but the problem only seemed to get worse? I don't have a kit to measure it. I am not seeing any issue with the new leaves - only the old. Nitrates are 10. GH 300ppm, KH 250ppm.

From what you're saying, I clearly need to use Excel more (I will buy metricide 14 to save on $$). But, I have vals......problem to use that dose of Excel or not?

What about my gh and kh? They are both very high. Is that a problem? PH also quite high at 8.0. Is that an issue?

Also why the BBA? I thought it was because i was using too many ferts and you said that's not the case. I have lowered my light to 7 hours instead of 9.

Also, should I buy a drop checker to measure my co2? Or is that not necessary?

Sorry for all the questions - much appreciate your help!

 

[Rivercats]

You don't need a drop checker unless you use pressurized CO2.

The old leaves will continue to deteriorate so my suggestion is to trim off the good tops and replant them, throwing the old, damaged leaves away.

Liquid carbons can indeed cause Vals to melt. I had Corkscrew vals that actually did quite well with even high doses of Glut yet Jungle vals seem very sensitive and almost always melt. So you can try slowly increasing your amounts over time but you may lose them. Pressurized CO2 would be good for a tank this size and over time will be cheaper to use. You also won't have to worry about val's melting.

High Gh and Kh rarely bother plants as they like fish acclimate.

Most likely your photoperiod is too long which causes BBA. Only run lighting 6 hours until you have it cleared up or run lighting 3 hours, off 2, and on 3. Algae needs a longer photoperiod to grow so by using two shorter lighting periods it makes it very hard for it to grow.

You will need to spot treat the current BBA to get rid of it. Get a syringe and pull up 3ml of hydrogen peroxide 3% for every 1 gallon of tank water. Turn off filters. Slowly squirt BBA and leave filters off 20 minutes. BBA should begin turning white/pink/red in about 24 hours which indicates it's dying. If you have a lot of BBA you will have to spot treat an area each day.

 

[sallyjano]

You don't need a drop checker unless you use pressurized CO2.

The old leaves will continue to deteriorate so my suggestion is to trim off the good tops and replant them, throwing the old, damaged leaves away.

Liquid carbons can indeed cause Vals to melt. I had Corkscrew vals that actually did quite well with even high doses of Glut yet Jungle vals seem very sensitive and almost always melt. So you can try slowly increasing your amounts over time but you may lose them. Pressurized CO2 would be good for a tank this size and over time will be cheaper to use. You also won't have to worry about val's melting.

High Gh and Kh rarely bother plants as they like fish acclimate.

Most likely your photoperiod is too long which causes BBA. Only run lighting 6 hours until you have it cleared up or run lighting 3 hours, off 2, and on 3. Algae needs a longer photoperiod to grow so by using two shorter lighting periods it makes it very hard for it to grow.

You will need to spot treat the current BBA to get rid of it. Get a syringe and pull up 3ml of hydrogen peroxide 3% for every 1 gallon of tank water. Turn off filters. Slowly squirt BBA and leave filters off 20 minutes. BBA should begin turning white/pink/red in about 24 hours which indicates it's dying. If you have a lot of BBA you will have to spot treat an area each day.

Ok thanks. I will just keep the excel/metricide on the lower side and see what happens with the vals. I've seen some people say they have no problem so I assume it's based on how much you dose. Since my lights aren't that high I guess I'll stick to a lower daily dose and see how it goes. I love jungle vals so really hope I can keep them.

Re the BBA I really only have a couple of tiny patches of it. Will it spread if I don't get rid of it? Can't I just rub it off since it's only a couple of small bits of it?

Re the co2 yes I am sure I will end up high tech at some point. It's just all a bit overwhelming right now trying to learn about everything so I am taking it one step at a time. My next project will be learning about dry ferts and PPS-Pro or EI dosing. Once I've got that down maybe I'll venture into pressurized co2 though I have to say the posts I keep seeing about people who have come home to a tank of dead fish due to something going wrong with it aren't making me rush into it!!

 

[Rivercats]

BBA doesn't just wipe off. You can easily spot treat the small amount so it dies off. Using peroxide at the amounts listed is safe for fish and most all but the most delicate shrimp. Once the BBA is gone then it will be easier to monitor if any new grows.

I use this for dosing my dry ferts:

I use these ferts.... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html.


I also suggest 3 of these dosing bottles... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/dispenser-32oz.html


Read this thread about dosing PPS-Pro but only read the opening post and not all the comment posts... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html.


There are two things I do differently than the thread is that I split my macro nutrients up using one dosing bottle for nitrates, and one dosing bottle for phosphates and potassium. This allows me for better custom dosing to the needs of my tank. I shoot for 10-20ppm of nitrate and 1-5ppm phosphates. The thread also has MgSO4, magnesium sulfate in the macro mix. If your tanks Gh is 4 or over then your tap water has enough magnesium in it that supplementing it is not needed.

 

[sallyjano]

BBA doesn't just wipe off. You can easily spot treat the small amount so it dies off. Using peroxide at the amounts listed is safe for fish and most all but the most delicate shrimp. Once the BBA is gone then it will be easier to monitor if any new grows.

I use this for dosing my dry ferts:

I use these ferts.... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html.


I also suggest 3 of these dosing bottles... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/dispenser-32oz.html


Read this thread about dosing PPS-Pro but only read the opening post and not all the comment posts... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html.


There are two things I do differently than the thread is that I split my macro nutrients up using one dosing bottle for nitrates, and one dosing bottle for phosphates and potassium. This allows me for better custom dosing to the needs of my tank. I shoot for 10-20ppm of nitrate and 1-5ppm phosphates. The thread also has MgSO4, magnesium sulfate in the macro mix. If your tanks Gh is 4 or over then your tap water has enough magnesium in it that supplementing it is not needed.

BBA - Ok thanks. I will either do that or I may just trim the affected leaves as there are only about 3 or 4 of them. Also though I am seeing some leaves look 'hairy' although it's not black. Is that just another kind of algae?

Re ferts - thank you. Once my seachem products get on the low side I will take the plunge and go dry ferts. I am sure I'll have more questions when I get there!!

Re a test kit - I only have the API master test kit. Do I need to get anything else? I can't measure phosphates right now......

 

[Rivercats]

Without seeing pic's it's hard to say if it's the beginning of BBA or something else like hair or fuzz algae.

I have a phosphate test kit and an API Gh and Kh test kit. If you get the ladder kit be sure to get one that has both tests in the kit.

 

[sallyjano]

You don't need a drop checker unless you use pressurized CO2.

The old leaves will continue to deteriorate so my suggestion is to trim off the good tops and replant them, throwing the old, damaged leaves away.

Liquid carbons can indeed cause Vals to melt. I had Corkscrew vals that actually did quite well with even high doses of Glut yet Jungle vals seem very sensitive and almost always melt. So you can try slowly increasing your amounts over time but you may lose them. Pressurized CO2 would be good for a tank this size and over time will be cheaper to use. You also won't have to worry about val's melting.

High Gh and Kh rarely bother plants as they like fish acclimate.

Most likely your photoperiod is too long which causes BBA. Only run lighting 6 hours until you have it cleared up or run lighting 3 hours, off 2, and on 3. Algae needs a longer photoperiod to grow so by using two shorter lighting periods it makes it very hard for it to grow.

You will need to spot treat the current BBA to get rid of it. Get a syringe and pull up 3ml of hydrogen peroxide 3% for every 1 gallon of tank water. Turn off filters. Slowly squirt BBA and leave filters off 20 minutes. BBA should begin turning white/pink/red in about 24 hours which indicates it's dying. If you have a lot of BBA you will have to spot treat an area each day.

Rivercats - so I didn't do this (just not had time....). And now it's worse. I am going to do it but now it's everywhere. How many days in a row can I do it without any danger to the fish/plants? Any limit to how many times per week I can do it? I normally do 40% PWC a week if that's relevant.

Thx

 

[Rivercats]

I would treat once and wait 24-36 hours to see if algae begins to turn white, pink, or red which means it's dying. If it changes color there is no need to retreat. If it doesn't you can then treat again. Personally I'd only treat 2 or 3x max per week. Also with the BBA being so abundant I would do the first treatment and leave the lights off for the day. Then I would definitely run them no more than 6 hours max and perhaps even only 4-5 hours for a week which will help a lot.

 

[sallyjano]

I would treat once and wait 24-36 hours to see if algae begins to turn white, pink, or red which means it's dying. If it changes color there is no need to retreat. If it doesn't you can then treat again. Personally I'd only treat 2 or 3x max per week. Also with the BBA being so abundant I would do the first treatment and leave the lights off for the day. Then I would definitely run them no more than 6 hours max and perhaps even only 4-5 hours for a week which will help a lot.

Thanks. I was asking because I think it may take several sessions to hit it all, not so much retreating the same area. But thanks, I understand re the hydrogen peroxide.

One Q re your photo period comments......I did reduce the light to 6 hours (2 off in the middle) but the plants condition seemed to get worse. I guessed that the plants suffered due to not getting enough light. Do you think the plants will suffer due to reduced lighting hours? Since I now know that poor plant condition contributes to algae, won't reducing light make the plants worse which is then a vicious cycle with the algae? OR am I over thinking it here?!

 

[Rivercats]

Plants covered in BBA won't thrive nor can light penetrate the BBA. It can take quite some time for plants to recover from periods of bad algae. I would concentrate on getting rid of the algae then you can find a good photoperiod to run lighting along with giving the plants enough CO2 or liquid carbon and ferts to help them recover. Plants are going to look worse once the algae is killed off as then you can see the real damage. New leaves however will grow in looking great and eventually any bad damaged leaves may need to be trimmed off. Just be patient and stay the course.